Should I report this bus driver?

[Goldelpack]

Well I have a hidden disability and basically sitting in a disabled seat and parking in the disabled spot with my placard is throwing it out there.

I tell people off all the time for being rude, give snarky comebacks and would totally shame a person for being terrible person and on top of that would not feel the slightest bit of anything about it. If a person wants to be awful I am not going to sit and take it in real life, if a person is being terrible to a disabled or vulnerable person then someone needs to tell them and I am ok with being that someone.

People have a right to be awful, this is true, but I am also well within my rights to inform them they are awful.

1. Having a disability (hidden or visable) doesn't provide permission or a "right" to be the one to TELL others of the behavior you find awful. In fact, that, in and of itself is pretty awful. Being intentionally "snarky" or glaring at, or shaming people is not in any way helping the situation. It is not tit for tat. It's not informative or educational or helpful.

2. Many busses have signage asking/telling people that certain seats are designated for handicapped and they could be asked to move. It doesn't indicate that there's any type of legal requirement and that if they are awful people they'll suffer awful consequences. I've had several experiences at resorts with multiple stops where there's guests on board and they won't expend the energy to move their feet out of the way of my scooter. So if my wheel attempts to meet their foot - I hope they then move it or it might cause some discomfort for them.

3. Going back to the original post - it's always good to report these incidents and I've done so several times over the years. While I don't get a detailed reply about what is or was being done, I do get a response that indicates to me that someone read my concerns.

 

[LuvOrlando]

1. Having a disability (hidden or visable) doesn't provide permission or a "right" to be the one to TELL others of the behavior you find awful. In fact, that, in and of itself is pretty awful. Being intentionally "snarky" or glaring at, or shaming people is not in any way helping the situation. It is not tit for tat. It's not informative or educational or helpful.

2. Many busses have signage asking/telling people that certain seats are designated for handicapped and they could be asked to move. It doesn't indicate that there's any type of legal requirement and that if they are awful people they'll suffer awful consequences. I've had several experiences at resorts with multiple stops where there's guests on board and they won't expend the energy to move their feet out of the way of my scooter. So if my wheel attempts to meet their foot - I hope they then move it or it might cause some discomfort for them.

3. Going back to the original post - it's always good to report these incidents and I've done so several times over the years. While I don't get a detailed reply about what is or was being done, I do get a response that indicates to me that someone read my concerns.

so let me get this straight, I can't react to people in the real world but you and others who, according to yourselves, WOULD NOT correct or respond to a person actually in real life have the moral high ground correcting me here? How does that tricky u turn work exactly?

Some have got a whole lot of Thou shalt not gong on for people who really seem to be digging some I shall for themselves.

 

[lanejudy]

Are you saying person with an invisible disability is the same as a person who just simply does not want to move and as a person with an invisible disability I should be understanding of a person just not wanting to move?

Again -- you asked about legal requirement to move: "isn't it a law for people to get up for handicapped seating?"
The answer is no. The ADA requires that the driver ask others to move from those seats; the law does not require the people to move. The reason being you cannot visually tell the difference between someone with an invisible disability who needs that seat and the grumpy jerk who simply doesn't want to move. The latter gets a pass in order to maintain protection for the former.

Do you really believe that a disabled person sitting in a disabled seat who is asked to move for a chair or scooter is likely to just flat out say no without offering a reason instead of offering an explanation such as "I'm disabled too," if asked to move for the chair or scooter by the bus driver? Really?

Nobody has to self-identify as disabled to use those seats; a simple "no, I need to sit" is sufficient, not "I'm disabled too." I don't know why you would feel the right to publicly shame an individual for a perceived wrong-doing when all they are doing is protecting their own rights and privacy.


This is about the legal requirements because you questioned the legalities. This is not specific to OP's situation because the law was followed -- the driver properly asked the people to move and they did so the scooter was loaded.

 

[robinb]

I’m gonna weigh in on this argument about people refusing to move. I think that if there are other seats available and someone refuses to move they are a jerk. Period. And that includes folks with the invisible disabilities. I don’t care what the law says or doesn’t say, you’re a jerk for not moving to another seat when asked. @LuvOrlando is welcome to give them the evil eye and mutter under her breath about them being jerks. They deserve it.

I’m sure she does not harbor those feelings about people who don’t want to move when the bus is full. That is a completely different situation and has been covered here and elsewhere in ad nauseam.

 

[lanejudy]

I’m gonna weigh in on this argument about people refusing to move. I think that if there are other seats available and someone refuses to move they are a jerk. Period. And that includes folks with the invisible disabilities.

Did I miss something? Where did anyone say that? As best as I can tell that didn't happen and nobody suggested that it should.

 

[robinb]

Did I miss something? Where did anyone say that? As best as I can tell that didn't happen and nobody suggested that it should.

Sorry, I thought that’s what the argument was about. People not moving to an empty seat of asked. If there are no empty seats they should, of course, stay if they want for whatever reason with no evil eye given. As we have discussed before ad nauseam.

 

[lanejudy]

Sorry, I thought that’s what the argument was about. People not moving to an empty seat of asked.

No, my responses were about what is required by law. Another poster thought the law requires people to move from those seats (where a wheelchair/ECV would be tied down). However that is not correct. The ADA only requires that the driver ask other passengers to move but does not require forcing anyone to move because some may have invisible disabilities and need the seat. Nobody is required to disclose an invisible disability to remain seated, so yes it's possible that a jerk could refuse to move. I don't believe any poster here is of the opinion that would be appropriate, however one can't really know who is a jerk vs who has an invisible disability.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I’m gonna weigh in on this argument about people refusing to move. I think that if there are other seats available and someone refuses to move they are a jerk. Period. And that includes folks with the invisible disabilities. I don’t care what the law says or doesn’t say, you’re a jerk for not moving to another seat when asked. @LuvOrlando is welcome to give them the evil eye and mutter under her breath about them being jerks. They deserve it.

I’m sure she does not harbor those feelings about people who don’t want to move when the bus is full. That is a completely different situation and has been covered here and elsewhere in ad nauseam.

Thanks for that, I'm sorry the original set of events happened to you in the first place, I believe you.

I need to mask because my Dr tells me I do. This means that for years now every single time I go out into a store I wear a mask and since quarantine, incredibly, every single time AT LEAST ONE miserable person makes it a point to seek me out and deliberately cough on me. I know it is on purpose because when someone is genuinely sick I can hear them before I see them. People faking it just happen to have a terrible cough when they see me and just so happen to need to be where I am to cough at me or on me and then the cough magically disappears when they feel they did a good job at being awful Sometimes people who don't cough on me, like a cashier, will still go out of their way to share their contempt by intentionally starting a conversation just so they can share how difficult it is to hear me.

I see how horrible humans are with this twisted behavior all the time so my experiences have taught me that humans can be horrible "just because" and for that reason I am willing to offer you the benefit of the doubt that what you felt and experienced was genuine. I can see plainly that some people really are just terrible humans and that is all there is to it.

In the end I hope this sort of thing doesn't happen to you again.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Every time I come over to this forum I get the distinct impression that the tone and expectation is to just accept whatever crumbs the world is willing to toss at me and that any voicing of that not being good enough makes a person a troublemaker. Then that thought makes me consider all the other troublemakers who got Civil Rights Laws passed in the first place and all the troublemakers who will make them better.

I'm ok with being in that group

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Do the bus drivers just ask people to move or do they say something to the effect of if someone was willing to move for an ecv?

If it's the first I can see why someone would be hesitant to move (disability or not) if there are other open seats available.

I can't remember do any of the buses have a step up to the back of it?

 

[Mle8308]

Do the bus drivers just ask people to move or do they say something to the effect of if someone was willing to move for an ecv?

If it's the first I can see why someone would be hesitant to move (disability or not) if there are other open seats available.

I can't remember do any of the buses have a step up to the back of it?

Yes, the busses do have at least one step to get to the back section of the bus. Not 100% sure it's every bus, but I know many do.

 

[disneyseniors]

That is a terrible thing to say. As others have mentioned, how do you know if one of those people you are advocating to publicly shame has a less obvious disability? Perhaps a veteran with prosthetic leg hidden under pants you cannot see? Yeah, go ahead and publicly shame that veteran!

I unfortunately, have an "invisible" disability. I Look normally healthy, but am suffering from this disease. I don't push it if there are no seats, but just do the best I can. I don't use an ECV but walking can be difficult and painful. I try to rest a lot while in the parks and get a rest in the afternoon so I can keep going. I'm saying this because there are many people out there like me who look healthy but are not. I know it's difficult , too, for people to deal with people who are seemingly healthy looking.

 

[Mle8308]

I unfortunately, have an "invisible" disability. I Look normally healthy, but am suffering from this disease. I don't push it if there are no seats, but just do the best I can. I don't use an ECV but walking can be difficult and painful. I try to rest a lot while in the parks and get a rest in the afternoon so I can keep going. I'm saying this because there are many people out there like me who look healthy but are not. I know it's difficult , too, for people to deal with people who are seemingly healthy looking.

Exactly! I have a co-worker who lost both his legs in Afghanistan, he went into the Marines right out of high school, so he still looks young and he is very healthy aside from not having legs below his knees. When he wears pants, you would never know he has prosthetics, and he tends to wear higher boots, so even if his pants go up, you can't tell. He can have difficulty walking, especially at the end of a day (we make certain accommodations - gladly, at work for him). The prosthetics can rub and be painful after a long day. He would be one of those people who might sit in one of the seats by the ECV spot, or in the fold down seat itself if no other seats were available. He would have difficulty getting up the bus stair towards the back, on the busses that have them, so that is out. He would in all likelihood be one to give up his seat, even though he probably needs it more than some of the people using ECV's. And if anyone were to publicly call him out or attempt to shame him, well.... He wouldn't respond but his wife might! And rightfully so.

 

[robinb]

Do the bus drivers just ask people to move or do they say something to the effect of if someone was willing to move for an ecv?

If it's the first I can see why someone would be hesitant to move (disability or not) if there are other open seats available.

I can't remember do any of the buses have a step up to the back of it?

The do have a step to the back in addition to the steps you need to take into the bus.

I have no idea what he (finally) said to the people when he asked them to move. I was outside waiting.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes, the busses do have at least one step to get to the back section of the bus. Not 100% sure it's every bus, but I know many do.

The do have a step to the back in addition to the steps you need to take into the bus.

I have no idea what he (finally) said to the people when he asked them to move. I was outside waiting.

Thanks, I thought there was a step in the back but then second guessed my memory.

I could see someone not able to as easily get to the back if they already had the step to get in the bus and that presented an issue as a reason they couldn't/didn't want to get up.

I also could see if someone didn't know they were being asked to move for an ecv user and there were other empty seats then they wouldn't see a reason maybe thinking the bus driver was being particular when he didn't need to be.

 

[mcall12]

I could see someone not able to as easily get to the back if they already had the step to get in the bus and that presented an issue as a reason they couldn't/didn't want to get up.

Just to be clear, no one needs to share why they can’t move to the back. They can literally just say they’re unable to do so. The driver doesn’t get to decide if someone’s “able enough” to move or not. Not that this is what you’re saying but just to be clear for others reading this later.

Prior to his knee replacement, my father could walk (with pain) the parks but could not have safely stood on a bus and the steeper steps to the back were harder for him than getting onto the bus. Just as an example of someone who could have been in those seats and not able to move if the only open other seats were up the steps. We generally waited for the next bus if it was going to be standing room only, but that does sometimes leave you with only those seats intended to fold up if a wheelchair or ECV needs to be tied down.

It’s a crap situation for all when people are making judgements based only on what they think they know about a situation.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I don’t have a disability, but at the end of a long park day, my feet are absolutely killing me, often to the point of needing to soak my feet when we get back to the room. If I’m already seated on the bus, I would move to an empty seat if asked, but no way would I give up my seat to stand, no matter who it’s for.

That’s for Disney buses…local law requires non-disabled to give seats for disabled or elderly.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Just to be clear, no one needs to share why they can’t move to the back. They can literally just say they’re unable to do so. The driver doesn’t get to decide if someone’s “able enough” to move or not. Not that this is what you’re saying but just to be clear for others reading this later.

Prior to his knee replacement, my father could walk (with pain) the parks but could not have safely stood on a bus and the steeper steps to the back were harder for him than getting onto the bus. Just as an example of someone who could have been in those seats and not able to move if the only open other seats were up the steps. We generally waited for the next bus if it was going to be standing room only, but that does sometimes leave you with only those seats intended to fold up if a wheelchair or ECV needs to be tied down.

It’s a crap situation for all when people are making judgements based only on what they think they know about a situation.

Yes I agree.

I've spoken elsewhere about my own knee pain and my ongoing plantar fasciitis. It doesn't make me have an invisible disability but it does affect me. But it's not really something I wanted to make the conversation further about because too many people think about people in the context of disability (invisible or otherwise) vs not. So many people at Disney are in the same boat with the nature of the parks, it's one of the only places where you'll find tired unable to move for one reason or another, don't know why they are being asked,etc people in the same place at the same time.

They are just as likely and just as valid most especially if the people in the bus have no understanding of why they are being asked to move specific seats on an occupied bus (one that didn't start empty for ECV users to get in first), whether that's policy or not for the drivers to say why was one reason I asked when the OP clarified there were other open seats.

I agree that people don't have to disclose the "why" I opted to belabor that point using different reasoning than what had already been discussed is all

 

[ClaraOswald]

Did I miss something? Where did anyone say that? As best as I can tell that didn't happen and nobody suggested that it should.

Honestly, I think it would be pretty rare for anyone to not just move to another open seat because they want to be a jerk. The only way I could see someone not moving is if they would have to stand or if they had to go to the second tier seats and couldn't do the stairs. Or if there weren't enough seats for parents/child to move together.

But how many people are just going to refuse to move to a different open seat? Almost none, I imagine.

Thanks for that, I'm sorry the original set of events happened to you in the first place, I believe you.

I need to mask because my Dr tells me I do. This means that for years now every single time I go out into a store I wear a mask and since quarantine, incredibly, every single time AT LEAST ONE miserable person makes it a point to seek me out and deliberately cough on me. I know it is on purpose because when someone is genuinely sick I can hear them before I see them. People faking it just happen to have a terrible cough when they see me and just so happen to need to be where I am to cough at me or on me and then the cough magically disappears when they feel they did a good job at being awful Sometimes people who don't cough on me, like a cashier, will still go out of their way to share their contempt by intentionally starting a conversation just so they can share how difficult it is to hear me.

I see how horrible humans are with this twisted behavior all the time so my experiences have taught me that humans can be horrible "just because" and for that reason I am willing to offer you the benefit of the doubt that what you felt and experienced was genuine. I can see plainly that some people really are just terrible humans and that is all there is to it.

In the end I hope this sort of thing doesn't happen to you again.

As a mask-wearer, I get the fake coughs in my direction as well. And lots of glares or eye rolls too. I honestly just try not to look at people so I don't have to see it. It makes me angry.

Of course, I could point out WHY this happens but I don't think that's allowed over here so I'm sure you can use your imagination.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

No, my responses were about what is required by law. Another poster thought the law requires people to move from those seats (where a wheelchair/ECV would be tied down). However that is not correct. The ADA only requires that the driver ask other passengers to move but does not require forcing anyone to move because some may have invisible disabilities and need the seat. Nobody is required to disclose an invisible disability to remain seated, so yes it's possible that a jerk could refuse to move. I don't believe any poster here is of the opinion that would be appropriate, however one can't really know who is a jerk vs who has an invisible disability.

You are citing only one part of the law. The law says that the transporting agency can make a policy that requires people to move from seats that are used for those on scooters or wheelchairs. There is no requirement for them to allow an individual with a ‘hidden disability’ to remain in a seat that needs to be used for a wheelchair or scooter. So if Disney had such a policy, it would be considered law that they move. Why would Disney do this? Disney has to be able to meet the ADA’s other sections of the law that require they offer equitable services on the busses to those who need mobility devices. With only 2 spaces available, this was disputed and we were seeing 3 space busses for a while.

A person who has a disability that requires them to be seated on a bus simply has to state to the driver that they need to be seated because they have a condition that requires this. The bus driver is responsible for seeing that there is a seat for them, but they certainly can move them from one seat they can access to another, such as from a seat reserved for those with a scooter or wheelchair to one on the same level as those seats.

Quoting one section of the law outside of it’s entirety does not convey a law correctly. Do you have the written policy from Disney on whether or not people must move?

As the original poster stated, the people on the seat for the scooter moved, so that wasn’t the case. What bothered the poster was that while the request was made for them to be able to ride the bus like everyone else who was in line and loaded on the bus, the bus driver’s reaction was that their request was a ‘big favor’ to accommodate - when it wasn’t. They simply wanted to ride the bus back like everyone else. It was wrong for him to insinuate that they should wait for another bus. The driver didn’t ask this of anyone else in line.