Should churches change security in wake of recent events?

[longboard55]

seems like every suggestion has a comeback, so 33,000 a year and there is nothing we can do to lower the number.

 

[wvjules]

Do you live in the U.S. by any chance? What you are even considering is cost prohibitive and a logistic nightmare much less actually illegal in some states who do not require a license to own a firearm.

As far as state A and state B? Welcome to America where we have 50 states who have certain liberties, laws, policies, etc that differ from each other. Have you considered the multitude of other things each state is different on? Things like income tax collection, sales tax (either at all, same rate for all items, or reduced rate or increased rate for certain items), property tax, etc differs from state to state. And you know sometimes the whole state A vs state B actually works in one's favor such as when you need a liquor run and your state closes sales at 11 pm but the next state over doesn't close til midnight lol (ok that was humor being injected in).

Born and raised in WV (hence the wvjules).

Yes, I get that we are 50 states and there are states rights. To use your income tax example. In TX there is no state income tax, but in WV there is. However, both states have to pay Federal income taxes. Same with minimum wage. There is a minimum but states/cities can choose to do more. Why can't there be minimum federal regulations to own a firearm and states can do more if they so choose?

ETA: Do you not see a problem with a mentally ill person being able to legally purchase a firearm? Or a partner/spouse that has domestic violence charges?

 

[Realfoodfans]

I don't have an answer - but I found this chart (though from 2012) very interesting.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Here's my thought. EVERY American gets a firearms background check when they renew their driver's license/state ID. Your license would be stamped with "lawful firearms purchaser" or "denied firearms purchases". Then make it law that the ID must be checked for all sales, including private party.

By including everyone, you avoid the registration hurdle.

Except not every state is the same on when your license is up for renewal much less not everyone has a state ID or a license. What about the people that previously owned firearms and let their ID lapse? Or the people who purchase firearms in between the time when your license renews? My license is good for 6 years for example from age 21 to age 65 plus I can renew up to 1 year in advance (over 65 and it's every 4 years) but MO it's good for 6 years from age 21 to age 69 and from age 70+ it's good for 3 years. In Colorado you can renew your DL online for example.

Also where does the $ come from to run the background checks and pay the people who need to handle them.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Riots?? Really??? I suppose it would be useful in a Zombie apocalypse too, but I don’t anticipate that being a problem either. Where do you ppl live that riots are a legitimate threat??

I don’t struggle to understand anything. Perhaps it’s not the best example. But, IMO, these arguments are just many of the ridiculous arguments that get thrown out instead of having a real conversation about reasonable regulation. So unless someone is convicted in a court with proper due process that ANYONE should be allowed to own gun b/c it’s a right? Is that what you’re saying? What about mentally ill or ppl with mental health issues??

Mental incompetence is in fact a disqualifier for firearms purchases. But, one must be declared so by a judge.

Sadly, that was the case with the VA Tech shooter, but the state of Virginia failed to alert the BATF.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

The money would come from the license application fee, or the licensee. The applicant would need to be evaluated periodically by an approved mental health professional in order to get, or maintain, a license for a firearm.

States can maintain stricter regulations and maintain their own lists but there needs to a be some sort of federal requirement. What is the point of State A having strict gun laws but then the applicant can cross the border to State B with weaker laws and buy a gun that he isn't' qualified to purchase in the first state?

Oh please. We can't even get people of a certain age to have to pass driving tests because it's a "violation of their rights". Do you seriously think we will have people going in for mental health checks because they want to own a .22 rifle for hunting?

 

[bcla]

Except not every state is the same on when your license is up for renewal much less not everyone has a state ID or a license. What about the people that previously owned firearms and let their ID lapse? Or the people who purchase firearms in between the time when your license renews? My license is good for 6 years for example from age 21 to age 65 plus I can renew up to 1 year in advance (over 65 and it's every 4 years) but MO it's good for 6 years from age 21 to age 69 and from age 70+ it's good for 3 years. In Colorado you can renew your DL online for example.

Also where does the $ come from to run the background checks and pay the people who need to handle them.

There are medical requirements for certain licensing such as a commercial pilot's license. The medical checks are the responsibility of the license holder. A background check is required for a security guard license.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Born and raised in WV (hence the wvjules).

Yes, I get that we are 50 states and there are states rights. To use your income tax example. In TX there is no state income tax, but in WV there is. However, both states have to pay Federal income taxes. Same with minimum wage. There is a minimum but states/cities can choose to do more. Why can't there be minimum federal regulations to own a firearm and states can do more if they so choose?

I thought it was West Virginia to be honest.

As to your question..regulations on a national level are difficult and you do have to understand that there are choices given to states to decide for themselves for a reason.

In your case of requiring licenses..as I said that's in direct violation of my state's constitution. It is my right in my state. On a federal level you would have to look at it from that type of angle. But you also have to look at it logistically and financially too. I'm not trying to get into a debate at the moment about this in particular aspect but consider marijuana--federal laws are different than state laws.

 

[IAHFTPT]

So, how about them Cubs?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There are medical requirements for certain licensing such as a commercial pilot's license. The medical checks are the responsibility of the license holder. A background check is required for a security guard license.

That's true but not a normal driver's license which is what the person was talking about-renewing your driver's license or state-ID in regards to background checks.

 

[JaneBanks]

If a classroom full of dead babies won't change people's minds, nothing will.

So yeah, how bout those Cubs?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Except not every state is the same on when your license is up for renewal much less not everyone has a state ID or a license. What about the people that previously owned firearms and let their ID lapse? Or the people who purchase firearms in between the time when your license renews? My license is good for 6 years for example from age 21 to age 65 plus I can renew up to 1 year in advance (over 65 and it's every 4 years) but MO it's good for 6 years from age 21 to age 69 and from age 70+ it's good for 3 years. In Colorado you can renew your DL online for example.

Also where does the $ come from to run the background checks and pay the people who need to handle them.

I'm okay with requiring an ID to purchase a gun (or vote), and if you become disqualified after you get your ID, it would need to be confiscated.

The cost is an issue, but a small one IMO.

 

[wonder whisper]

The Cubs are fine. And here's Brittany Adcock, another ex (ex-girfriend) of the shooter. According to Ms. Adcock, after she broke up with him he offered to pay her to come live with him and his wife, as long as she agreed to walk around their home partially undressed (I kid you not, look it up if you're sceptical.) Suffice to say she told him where to go.

 

[wvjules]

Why do you feel the need to post their pictures here?

 

[IAHFTPT]

There appears to be a measure of glee in it for some reason.

 

[IAHFTPT]

I think it's for the reaction.

Like a youngster.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm okay with requiring an ID to purchase a gun (or vote), and if you become disqualified after you get your ID, it would need to be confiscated.

The cost is an issue, but a small one IMO.

I didn't say I was for or against it. But if we're talking about a national requirement you have to take into consideration variances between the states. The cost, respectfully IMO, is not a small one. Funding can have a big impact on implementation on things as well as how well whatever you want to implement is.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Why do you feel the need to post their pictures here?

On that we do agree

 

[LSUmiss]

I was giving a few examples where you may want as much capacity as you can get, there are examples of people using that capacity to their advantage in legal self defense, just because it's unlikely doesn't mean it's unreasonable to list it as a reason when you ask me why someone may want it, especially when we are talking about policy that can stick around for an indefinite amount of time and be applied to millions of people.

Natural disasters happen, the LA riots happened, looters happen, home invasions happen you can't be short sighted when making policy you think I'm being ridiculous and I think you are being even more ridiculous.

Due process is required to strip rights, if you have been placed on the prohibited persons list to purchase a firearm there is a process you can follow to be removed from the list if your appeal is approved. If no one can come up with a good reason why you cannot own a gun then yes you should be allowed to own one.

Mental illness is a reason to be prohibited.

Like I said though, I think you are struggling to understand civil rights and the delicate process that taking away ones rights involves, your questions prove your difficultly grasping this.

I thought you were referring to legal due process like in a court of law. That’s why I asked about mental illness. So let’s say this, if a person is deemed dangerous enough to be on the no fly list, then that should also be enough to begin the due process required to restrict their ownership of a gun.

What I’m saying is ridiculous is that there seems to be no compromise. Why not ban assault rifles to make it not as easy to inflict as much damage as quickly like in LV? Just b/c there may a rare instnsce that someone may find these weapons useful? I bet machine guns would be even more effective in those scenarios you mentioned, but those are banned.

 

[LSUmiss]

Who decides what's "reasonable"?

The law uses the term reasonable all the time to define things.