Shoplifting

[PollyannaMom]

This is all so sad.

 

[mamamary]

My mom has a Walgreens by her that is like this. I’m not sure how much is locked up but she said it is next to impossible to shop there due to needing an associate to help you with everything. So she has to walk further to the grocery store a few blocks away. She is 88 so it would be much more convenient to go to Walgreens . I will say though that she has seen someone shoplift there but she wonders that maybe security would be better to have????

 

[EACarlson]

They all need to move to the Amazon Go model. Just walk in and walk out. No cashiers.

Only works if you have an honest clientele. Not going to work where the local government is actively trying to put you out of business by not prosecuting anyone. I'm expecting some of the stores in CA to go to the old grocery model. You place your order at the counter and the employees put it together. Going to make everything more expensive though.

I will say though that she has seen someone shoplift there but she wonders that maybe security would be better to have????

In many states security can't legally do anything. They are there as a deterrent but they can't actually stop anybody. Unless the store is going to pay for off-duty police there are going to be more and more places like this, especially in areas that the DA's have made it public they aren't interested in prosecuting crimes like this.

 

[mrsstats79]

This is so sad to see in our country. I just said to my DH the other day it is going to come down to stores being like the jewelry stores. Buzz to get in and out. Keep doors locked so they just can't walk out with stuff. This goes for Home Depot, Lowes etc.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well there is more to the story. In 2014 California voters passed Proposition 47. It made any shoplifting theft where the total value of the items was under $950 a misdemeanor. At the same time there was a huge push underway to release minor offenders early.
One of the unintended consequence, stores no long attempt to stop shoplifters. Why? Well, because Law Enforcement won't respond anymore to those calls.......and law enforcement won't respond because the District Attorney won't prosecute because convictions would put more minor offenders in jail.
And the other issues are, too many store employees were getting hurt attempting to stop shoplifters, and the cost to the store to prosecute a shoplifter these days is greater than the loss.......plus.....in some cases shoplifters were getting hurt too, and suing and winning based on the argument that the store employee used "excessive force" to detain them.
My NextDoor page occasionally has videos of people loading up shopping carts and just leaving without paying, and nobody tries to stop them.

I wondered when you would pop up again on that topic. I remember saying a while back that it was an issue with police departments not laws. Well I've got first hand experience now on that one. Police departments in CA are refusing to peruse a theft of more than $15K even when they have the identity of the thief and his cell phone. Worthless cops there. There is absolutely no way in heck a situation like occurred there would ever I do mean ever occur here. Citizens here hold the police accountable and while never perfect I am confident they would pursue thefts such as what happened especially when they have a cell phone, know who it is and people willing to press charges.

Bunch of baloney about some $950 limit..you guys need better police, stop blaming the law or using the DA as a means to let crime happen.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I really don’t think this is an issue of, ‘a homeless person needs a tube of toothpaste‘. I’m betting the stores in some of the harder hit areas might be happy to offer someone a small tube of toothpaste if they asked (I know I would even if I had to pay for it out of my own pocket), or may have even put together programs to help destitute individuals, etc.

I know in our area there are coalitions of volunteers who drop off food and essentials to homeless people all day long and well into the evening. Boston’s new mayor cleared up one problem area in the city not too long ago, with the condition that each individual taken off the street had to have housing, which they arranged. Things cleared up for short time. But now most are back, and tents are being erected again, drug dealers are back in the area (some are being arrested), etc.

Most of these people stealing from drugstore chains are either organized gangs or singles or groups going in for as much as they can haul out in a fell swoop, and not just a tube of toothpaste or deodorant. They want the expensive stuff that they can make money off of.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Laundry stuff did start getting locked up a while back at places (not in my immediate area to my recollection) when the "tide pod challenge" first started but after that I think it ebbed.

I don't think there's a black market for toothpaste or deodorant. My thought was either homeless or honestly those on a low-income. Neither makes it right to steal although I'm not sure how an individual store could work to prevent that without having security walking around all the time.

When I did visit my husband in Long Beach in 2019 the Walmart we went to had a lot of stuff locked up. I needed to get more razors and that was locked up so was some other things we were getting. We did have to ask an attendant to get the items, at that particular location there was someone stationed in that general area to assist but this was pre-pandemic and since the OP is about Walgreens it's more about finding a roaming employee and even in ours as well as CVS often there's not many people working typically. That probably would be a hassle for everyone involved with how much is locked up.

 

[DeeBee3]

I'm not surprised at all. It's not about the value of products. People have been going in en masse and just dumping stock into bags and then leaving. Some things, like razors, are expensive, but other things are just what's caught up in the massive catch of the looters.

It stinks that they have to make a hassle of it, but this is what our society has become. Plenty of CVS/Walgreens around me have closed or significantly cut nighttime hours due to this specifically - they have stated such.

 

[DeeBee3]

I wondered when you would pop up again on that topic. I remember saying a while back that it was an issue with police departments not laws. Well I've got first hand experience now on that one. Police departments in CA are refusing to peruse a theft of more than $15K even when they have the identity of the thief and his cell phone. Worthless cops there. There is absolutely no way in heck a situation like occurred there would ever I do mean ever occur here. Citizens here hold the police accountable and while never perfect I am confident they would pursue thefts such as what happened especially when they have a cell phone, know who it is and people willing to press charges.

Bunch of baloney about some $950 limit..you guys need better police, stop blaming the law or using the DA as a means to let crime happen.

I agree with Mackenzie, but there is definitely a law in some counties about a specific limit on shoplifting. Police have to follow laws in order to charge criminals.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don’t think the majority of police are “bad” in some of these high crime areas that don’t prosecute. I think they’ve just learned that not only don’t their efforts yield any prosecutions, they’re likely going to be criticized, and maybe even lose their livelihoods, if they do or say the wrong thing, so they become sort of listless. It’s why many of them are leaving their jobs or suicidal, sadly enough. It doesn’t make sense to say that police in “certain areas” are worthless as compared to police in other areas. People don’t dream of going into law enforcement or public safety any differently in certain areas; it’s about how they’re treated once they get into the field. Just my $.02 from people I know doing the job. It’s ironic we’re supposedly looking to improve police, but we’re losing lots of good ones or potential good ones because they’re afraid to go into it. Not sure if people want to live in a lawless society or what? That seems to be where we’re headed if this continues. Very sad. And please know I am NOT condoning wrongdoing by police, either. But there are millions of great officers out there who help keep peace in our society. They need our support, not disdain.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I agree with Mackenzie, but there is definitely a law in some counties about a specific limit on shoplifting. Police have to follow laws in order to charge criminals.

There is but the poster time and time again has used that law as a reason why police don't even bother to show up. The police not doing anything is a police issue. Theft under $950 IS still a crime, it however is now a misdemeanor. Not showing up, failure to take a police report, etc are all about issues with law enforcement and how their duties relate to their job. It doesn't mean you don't get to do anything. It's basically just used as a guise for pointing "not it" and passing the buck off to someone else. In this case the police are not following the law even if the value is under $950. The law doesn't state it's not a crime.

In the case that I'm talking about the amount stolen exceeds quite a bit and is considered a felony and the answer given was "we're not going to pursue into an investigation" even with personal property of the thief in the form of a cell phone dropped at the scene, the identity (who is a multiple larceny offender), even with cameras. They couldn't even keep the police reports together.

 

[MillauFr]

Only works if you have an honest clientele. Not going to work where the local government is actively trying to put you out of business by not prosecuting anyone. I'm expecting some of the stores in CA to go to the old grocery model. You place your order at the counter and the employees put it together. Going to make everything more expensive though.

You can't even get into the Amazon's Go Store past the security gates until you scan your phone. Really cuts down on theft.

 

[tvguy]

I wondered when you would pop up again on that topic. I remember saying a while back that it was an issue with police departments not laws. Well I've got first hand experience now on that one. Police departments in CA are refusing to peruse a theft of more than $15K even when they have the identity of the thief and his cell phone. Worthless cops there. There is absolutely no way in heck a situation like occurred there would ever I do mean ever occur here. Citizens here hold the police accountable and while never perfect I am confident they would pursue thefts such as what happened especially when they have a cell phone, know who it is and people willing to press charges.

Bunch of baloney about some $950 limit..you guys need better police, stop blaming the law or using the DA as a means to let crime happen.

To be fair, it isn't the Police Department's fault. The VOTERS approved the change in the law. So they are merely following what the Citizens wanted. They don't arrest, because the District Attorney won't prosecute, because the CITIZENS changed the law, saying these minor crimes aren't worth prosecuting.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I wondered when you would pop up again on that topic. I remember saying a while back that it was an issue with police departments not laws. Well I've got first hand experience now on that one. Police departments in CA are refusing to peruse a theft of more than $15K even when they have the identity of the thief and his cell phone. Worthless cops there. There is absolutely no way in heck a situation like occurred there would ever I do mean ever occur here. Citizens here hold the police accountable and while never perfect I am confident they would pursue thefts such as what happened especially when they have a cell phone, know who it is and people willing to press charges.

Bunch of baloney about some $950 limit..you guys need better police, stop blaming the law or using the DA as a means to let crime happen.

Well I'm glad someone pays attention. It was me that pointed it out. The DA's they can recall out there and they did in fact recall one and are in the works for a second. The cops, that's a different story and in all too many places, the cops really are above the law unless they are on camera beating someone to a pulp or get caught on camera saying things that would make them a useless witness (such as bigotry or admitting they lied to get someone convicted and were yucking it up or something major. We're in worse shape here. There have been 50 such robberies here by the same crew and they still can't catch em. And well we can't recall our DA or do much about our cops either. But you won't hear that on Fox because well it doesn't fit their narrative.

To be fair, it isn't the Police Department's fault. The VOTERS approved the change in the law. So they are merely following what the Citizens wanted. They don't arrest, because the District Attorney won't prosecute, because the CITIZENS changed the law, saying these minor crimes aren't worth prosecuting.

It is perfectly fair to blame the DA and/or the cops as it is in fact on them if they don't prosecute. The voters DID NOT say those weren't worth prosecuting. Quite the contrary. In fact the voters said those are misdemeaners if they are under $950 punishable by 6 months jail time and/or $1,000 fines and restitution. To say that the voters said they're not worth prosecuting when they in fact said nothing of the sort is what is not fair. The old figure was $400 BTW and the $950 is in line with peer states, inflation, and on the low side relative to the rest of the nation.
Also BTW California has once again passed the law where amounts under $950 can be charged as felonies if the person is working with others. This includes organized rings.
If a DA won't prosecute that is on the DA because other DAs in the state are in fact prosecuting. If certain cops won't make an arrest then that's on them because other cops in the state are making arrests. I suggest recall in the case of a DA which was done in one case and is in the works in another.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

These stores are facing a real no-win dilemma. Either they leave their merchandise vulnerable to shoplifters, or they lock it up and potentially lose sales. The Walmart in my area has certain categories of items locked up, including make-up. Before the pandemic, we would regularly do our weekly grocery shopping there (now we place an order and do curbside pick-up). I recall once wanting to buy make-up removal wipes, only to find they were locked up. Rather than look around for an employee, I thought, "Nope! Not worth the time. I'll order on Amazon or stop at CVS instead." So they lost a sale, but I would assume they've done the math and that my lost sale of one item is far less of a loss than the number of items they would lose to shoplifters. It's sad that stores have to make these choices.

 

[tvguy]

It is perfectly fair to blame the DA and/or the cops as it is in fact on them if they don't prosecute. The voters DID NOT say those weren't worth prosecuting. Quite the contrary. In fact the voters said those are misdemeaners if they are under $950 punishable by 6 months jail time and/or $1,000 fines and restitution. To say that the voters said they're not worth prosecuting when they in fact said nothing of the sort is what is not fair. The old figure was $400 BTW and the $950 is in line with peer states, inflation, and on the low side relative to the rest of the nation.
Also BTW California has once again passed the law where amounts under $950 can be charged as felonies if the person is working with others. This includes organized rings.
If a DA won't prosecute that is on the DA because other DAs in the state are in fact prosecuting. If certain cops won't make an arrest then that's on them because other cops in the state are making arrests. I suggest recall in the case of a DA which was done in one case and is in the works in another.

I don't think a single retailer in California would agree with you. I used to work retail security, decades ago. My particular job doesn't even exist anymore, in large part because of this law. All I dealt with was petty theft shoplifting and theft by employees.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

To be fair, it isn't the Police Department's fault. The VOTERS approved the change in the law. So they are merely following what the Citizens wanted. They don't arrest, because the District Attorney won't prosecute, because the CITIZENS changed the law, saying these minor crimes aren't worth prosecuting.

Nah that's just a distraction. Even though I already felt this way when you described the issues last year or the year before I'll just leave this here:

"professor of Criminology, Law and Society at the University of California, Irvine, is one of the article’s authors. She explained in an email to VERIFY that Proposition 47 does allow for the prosecution of shoplifting and other petty theft crimes — just as misdemeanors instead of felonies.
"If the police do not make arrests for these misdemeanor crimes and prosecutors do not prosecute them even when the police do make an arrest, that is not the fault of Proposition 47 itself," Kubrin said."

 

[tvguy]

Nah that's just a distraction. Even though I already felt this way when you described the issues last year or the year before I'll just leave this here:

"professor of Criminology, Law and Society at the University of California, Irvine, is one of the article’s authors. She explained in an email to VERIFY that Proposition 47 does allow for the prosecution of shoplifting and other petty theft crimes — just as misdemeanors instead of felonies.
"If the police do not make arrests for these misdemeanor crimes and prosecutors do not prosecute them even when the police do make an arrest, that is not the fault of Proposition 47 itself," Kubrin said."

LOL. Verify. My former employer. Again, retailers might have a vastly different view that this Professor.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I don't think a single retailer in California would agree with you. I used to work retail security, decades ago. My particular job doesn't even exist anymore, in large part because of this law. All I dealt with was petty theft shoplifting and theft by employees.

Well I don't need to make any unverifiable claims about who I am, what I have done. Nor do I need to make false claims about every retailer in the state agreeing with me. I bring what the law says, And what it says is contrary to your assertions. When the people pass a law, to claim that the people said something other than what the law they just passed says is completely bogus. That's just a fact sir, one you cannot get around. DAs in the state are in fact prosecuting. At least a couple of very high profile DAs aren't. One of them got recalled. The other may if enough petitions are signed face one. Whether he in fact will face one and if he does whether he will in fact be recalled remains to be seen. That's a fact, one you cannot get around. That DA forgot the most important thing. When it comes time to do your job, you gotta do your job. And if you don't, outcha go. Rightfully so too.

Nah that's just a distraction. Even though I already felt this way when you described the issues last year or the year before I'll just leave this here:

"professor of Criminology, Law and Society at the University of California, Irvine, is one of the article’s authors. She explained in an email to VERIFY that Proposition 47 does allow for the prosecution of shoplifting and other petty theft crimes — just as misdemeanors instead of felonies.
"If the police do not make arrests for these misdemeanor crimes and prosecutors do not prosecute them even when the police do make an arrest, that is not the fault of Proposition 47 itself," Kubrin said."

Sure, you believe that professor of criminology, law and society if you want or what the law says and the fact that other Das are in fact prosecuting. But when my enquiring mind wants to know, I'm going to hit up the owner of my local Christmas ornament store for his opinion. And if he's not available, an ex rent a cop will do.

 

[tvguy]

Well I don't need to make any unverifiable claims about who I am, what I have done. Nor do I need to make false claims about every retailer in the state agreeing with me. I bring what the law says, And what it says is contrary to your assertions. When the people pass a law, to claim that the people said something other than what the law they just passed says is completely bogus. That's just a fact sir, one you cannot get around. DAs in the state are in fact prosecuting. At least a couple of very high profile DAs aren't. One of them got recalled. The other may if enough petitions are signed face one. Whether he in fact will face one and if he does whether he will in fact be recalled remains to be seen. That's a fact, one you cannot get around. That DA forgot the most important thing. When it comes time to do your job, you gotta do your job. And if you don't, outcha go. Rightfully so too.




Sure, you believe that professor of criminology, law and society if you want or what the law says and the fact that other Das are in fact prosecuting. But when I need to know the law, I hit up the owner of my local Christmas ornament store or ex rent a cop.

Prop 47 winner of the Golden Fleece Award for unintended consequences.
Can't speak to Fox as I don't watch it.

\https://www.independent.org/publica...FVNNbgmLloQ47UqjrAoum9QRWUya7A64aAoh0EALw_wcB