Sharing and Tipping

[JimMIA]

Sure didn't seem that way to me. I don't mind tipping extra if the service is good, but that is not what you wrote in the OP.

No, it's not. I wrote my opinion about tipping appropriately, not tipping extra. The term "extra tip" was a quote from others who think tipping appropriately is above and beyond the call. I firmly agree with tipping extra for outstanding service.

You wrote: "I think we can all agree that sharing definitely shortchanges the waitstaff" well I do not agree with that.

If you don't agree that 1/2 is less than one, I can't help you with math.

And, lets see...so far on this board I have been called cheap, tacky, cheater (I'm sure I'm forgetting something) and all by people who profess to be morally superior to me.

Not by me. I just said I wasn't cheap and tacky. (about tipping -- I'm not cheap, but I can be tacky on occasion) And I just said that in response to your question. I certainly would never hold myself up as being "morally superior" to anyone. I'm not. I was talking about manners and consideration, not morals.

 

[ReallyFunMom]

Math was referenced so lets explain how the server does better, even with sharing, because DDP exists.

In the OOP days, no one thought it was so terrible for two to go to LeCellier for lunch and grab some burgers and have water to drink. Cost: 9.99 x 2. Tip = $4 (20%) Make it $5 because you asked for extra breadsticks. No foul here to the waitstaff, its 25% of what you ordered.

The servers benefit from diners ordering more food and more expensive food AND from having automatic 18% tip.

Lets say the same 2 aren’t starving for lunch so decide to split a TS credit and, because they are on DDP, WILL pick the more expensive entrees. From the lunch menu:

Beef kabob – 10.99
Sauteed jumbo shrimp – 21.99
Choc cake – 7.99
soda - 2.25

Tip at 18% = $7.79

Realistically, maybe 2 beers were ordered as well or an extra bowl of soup, automatically adding on 18% onto that total for an even larger tip. Also, because DDP is prepaid, with good service you are likely to toss a couple more dollars on the table just to be able to leave something. At least its more likly than the OOP diner tipping over 25%.

$5 < $7.79

I can see servers much busier than in the past but I bet they make more money than before DDP. They are also protected from the non-tippers or those who decide a dollar a head is all a good server really needs.

 

[Dizneydaz]

I agree with you ReallyFunMom! I know that when we are paying OOP, we don't ordered appies or dessert. We also still share. For good service, we tip the normal 15%. So, definitely, in our case, the server gets a bigger tip when we are on the DDP since the total bill is more and inc. 18%.

Now, that being said, whether we are at Disney, or not, and we share a meal, we increase the tip to cover the additional diner. We basically double that portion as if we ordered 2 meals. The same goes if we use a coupon or get a free meal (as we did Tuesday at Lone Star Steak-kids eat free on Tuesday). But that's just how we do it.

 

[Lewisc]

Unless it's changed in 2006 most of the non-Disney owned restaurants base the tip on the approximately $22 Disney is paying the restaurant NOT on the total value of the food that's ordered.

Using your example the MYW Dining guests are likely to be sitting at the table longer than the cash guests who just ordered 2 burgers. No appetizer and no dessert. The MYW guests will be at the table longer than your burger guests.

I'll agree with the OP, customers that share should be increasing a tip so the server isn't penalized.

Math was referenced so lets explain how the server does better, even with sharing, because DDP exists.

In the OOP days, no one thought it was so terrible for two to go to LeCellier for lunch and grab some burgers and have water to drink. Cost: 9.99 x 2. Tip = $4 (20%) Make it $5 because you asked for extra breadsticks. No foul here to the waitstaff, its 25% of what you ordered.

The servers benefit from diners ordering more food and more expensive food AND from having automatic 18% tip.

Lets say the same 2 aren’t starving for lunch so decide to split a TS credit and, because they are on DDP, WILL pick the more expensive entrees. From the lunch menu:

Beef kabob – 10.99
Sauteed jumbo shrimp – 21.99
Choc cake – 7.99
soda - 2.25

Tip at 18% = $7.79

Realistically, maybe 2 beers were ordered as well or an extra bowl of soup, automatically adding on 18% onto that total for an even larger tip. Also, because DDP is prepaid, with good service you are likely to toss a couple more dollars on the table just to be able to leave something. At least its more likly than the OOP diner tipping over 25%.

$5 < $7.79

I can see servers much busier than in the past but I bet they make more money than before DDP. They are also protected from the non-tippers or those who decide a dollar a head is all a good server really needs.

 

[JimMIA]

$5 < $7.79

The problem with the logic there is that, in the first case, you are eating two meals, paying for two meals, and tipping for two meals. In the latter example, you are feeding two people with one meal, paying for one meal, and tipping for one meal. It's not the same thing, no matter how you constuct your example.

By that logic I could take us to Victoria and Albert's, order a $200 dinner, tip 5% and say:

"$5 < $7.79 < $10 and that's cool, because the server is making more money."

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and this board could certainly use more respect for differing opinions...but that's not cool in my opinion. I don't care if you share food, but I think you're being unfair to the server if you don't adjust your tip. YMMV.

 

[JimMIA]

Unless it's changed in 2006 most of the non-Disney owned restaurants base the tip on the approximately $22 Disney is paying the restaurant NOT on the total food value of the food that's ordered.

I did the math a couple of times to compute extra tips and I'm pretty sure they were right to the penny on 18% of the menu price.

 

[Lewisc]

I did the math a couple of times to compute extra tips and I'm pretty sure they were right to the penny on 18% of the menu price.

The restaurants that base the tip on the approximately $22 Disney is paying the restaurant are the non-Disney owned restaurants such as Chefs de France. If you're near the register when you bill is being rung up you can actually see the cost of the meal being discounted down to what Disney is paying them. I'm not sure about Le Cellier.

This was the case in 2005, I'm not sure if this changed in 2006. One of the servers at WCC posted on DISBOARDS. She had friends that worked in non-Disney restaurants and confirmed this.

 

[shadonjenon]

To Insure Prompt Service
That is the meaning of tipping. The act of serving is in the job discription why do you deserve extra for doing exactly what your supposed to do. Now I get that people in the service industry dont make alot of money (my mother raised me on a waitress job) and I alway tip atleast 15% unless service is really crummy. But this break down makes no sense.

Two woman walk into a resturant for drinks and a small bit to eat. They order one appitizer and drinks. The server doesn't get a tip based on the fact that there are two of them and they COULD have ordered two appitizers. He made the same number of trips to the table and actually had to carry less food.

The servers tip is based on the amount of product (food) they serve because thats the resturants bottom line. The number of people at the table is not the issue. Even in places that have a manditory 18% for parties of 8 or more the tip is added after the food is ordered so its based on the actual product that is served.

The ddp doesn't rewrite the rules of tipping. There is no more work serving a person on the dinning plan than any other guest.

 

[JimMIA]

The restaurants that base the tip on the approximately $22 Disney is paying the restaurant are the non-Disney owned restaurants such as Chefs de France. If you're near the register when you bill is being rung up you can actually see the cost of the meal being discounted down to what Disney is paying them. I'm not sure about Le Cellier.

This was the case in 2005, I'm not sure if this changed in 2006. One of the servers at WCC posted on DISBOARDS. She had friends that worked in non-Disney restaurants and confirmed this.

You may be right then. We only ate in Disney restaurants.

 

[Mickey-4-Me]

I don't get involved in the cheating the DDP threads, but this one I have to respond to.

We tip based on the dinner bill and service... not quantity of people. It is customary to tip according to the dinner bill amount -- That is why they sell those cheat sheet tip cards for your wallet with 15% and 20% tip amounts. If a server is extra attentive or makes our evening more enjoyable we will tip more. Not just because they brought our food to our table or an extra plate or cleared our dirty dishes or refilled our glasses. That's their job. Yes, I said that. Just like as a nurse it is my job to clean up stuff that we don't really want to talk about. It's all part of the job - for me (or any nurse) and for servers.

FYI: I am not sure why you feel like the server is being cheated in any way. It is very likely that they have many (5+) tables to "serve".

For fun -- Let's just say that Server John Doe has 5 tables that all arrive at the same time and leave at the same time. Each table enjoys $50.00 worth of food (because each table shared) and dines for 1 hour. Plus, they do not order additional items OOP (alcohol, extra food, etc.) Server John Doe makes what? - approximately $3.00 hourly wage plus tips? 18% of $250.00 = $45.00 plus their hourly wage = Approximately $50.00 per hour! Honestly, how many of you make $50.00 per hour? I don't and I have a Bachelor's Degree!

You can argue that dinner takes longer than 1 hour, but I could argue that most TS meals (even with sharing) at WDW total well over $50.00 not including the extras (alcohol, extra food, etc.).

With all of this extra money being thrown around, maybe I should quit my job as a nurse and become a server at a WDW restaurant! It sure sounds like more $$$.

Call me cheap and tacky and I will call you frivolous and irresponsible with your hard earned money.

 

[ReallyFunMom]

By that logic I could take us to Victoria and Albert's, order a $200 dinner, tip 5% and say:

"$5 < $7.79 < $10 and that's cool, because the server is making more money."

There may be flaws in my logic but nothing like you are saying. Both my examples would appear as a normal amount of food being ordered for two diners and a normal percentage tip. Your $200 and 5% tip logic can't come from my example. But its interesting when any arguement doesn't hold water both ways. The $200/5% reference seems to argue you need to make sure the % is fair and not dollar value. The 18% on ordered food in the DDP makes sure waiters get a reasonable tip and I point out that, even spliting, this may be much better than they would have made out before DDP. There is no question, and no argument from me, that waiters make out the best if each person in the party orders the drink, appet, entree and dessert. My guess is the server salaries in the different dining times would rank:

OOP days < DDP (sharing and DDE allowed) < DDP (no sharing or combo DDE)

They may come to dread the family that shows up sharing inexpensive meals and drinking water and paying OOP. While they aren't doing anything wrong, just saving for gas money back home and tipping their 20%, it may still be much less than the DDP diner. This is not important for me, I always tip well as a former server myself. I no longer plan on sharing any TS meals, just easier. We will do 3 TS meals when there 4 nights. Its actually a relief, I was planning the day around food intead of the parks. I just saw math mentioned and thought I'd point something out.

 

[punkin]

I no longer plan on sharing any TS meals, just easier. We will do 3 TS meals when there 4 nights. Its actually a relief, I was planning the day around food intead of the parks.

What? You made a decision based on what's right for your family and not because someone on this board called you cheap and tacky?

 

[mickeyfan2]

IFYI: I am not sure why you feel like the server is being cheated in any way. It is very likely that they have many (5+) tables to "serve".

For fun -- Let's just say that Server John Doe has 5 tables that all arrive at the same time and leave at the same time. Each table enjoys $50.00 worth of food (because each table shared) and dines for 1 hour. Plus, they do not order additional items OOP (alcohol, extra food, etc.) Server John Doe makes what? - approximately $3.00 hourly wage plus tips? 18% of $250.00 = $45.00 plus their hourly wage = Approximately $50.00 per hour! Honestly, how many of you make $50.00 per hour? I don't and I have a Bachelor's Degree!

Three problems with your math.
1) 2-3 Tables is normal for servers. Only the top servers can handle 5+ tables. I know this from people who do work in the industry.
2) Not all tables will be DDP and not all OOP people tip.
3) Server Jone had to pay any bus people and the bartender too. That could be about 8% total, so he gets 10%.

Doing your numbers again.
3 tables and 10% of $50/table is $18/hr. Not exactly rolling in dough.

There are hours where a server makes great money and other times when the restaurant is empty and they only make the $3/hr.

 

[mickeyfan2]

OOP days < DDP (sharing and DDE allowed) < DDP (no sharing or combo DDE)

Again a mistake. One tips on the original bill not the discounted bill. So a DDE meal or none DDE meal have the same tip. The DDE food bill is less.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

I have been reading this thread and hope that we can keep the discussion going without resorting to arguing about who is right and who is wrong. Discussion is good, we may not always agree, but it is good to read other's opinions..

Mine is this, my Mom was a waitress her whole life. Based on that, I tip 20% on the bill, I do have DDE, so I tip 20% on the bill before the discount.....so basically they are taking 20% away from my bill and I am putting it back for the waitstaff...The waitstaff hardly are paid anything, they live on their tips.

I have been in restaurants where the waitstaff are annoyed that we do not drink because it does drive the total price of the meal up......hence a bigger tip.. You have to really be a terrible waiter for me to leave anything less than 20%.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Does anyone else get the feeling there are certain people that deliberately open up these threads looking for a fight? For Pete's sake...just do whatever works best for your family and let it go already! For me personally, not only do I want to do what's best for my family, but also for the server's family -- so I'm going to leave an extra tip (whether we share or not). Thank you JimMIA for suggesting a great formula with which to do it.

 

[NMW]

Of course, if "Disney Policy" permits sharing, then why do you have to leave an extra tip for the waiter?

I bet that is why so many restaurants charge a shared/extra plate fee. It's really not fair to the server who gets stuck with the family of 4 splitting 2 meals while another server gets a table of 4 that *amazingly* orders 4 dinners.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I have been in restaurants where the waitstaff are annoyed that we do not drink because it does drive the total price of the meal up......hence a bigger tip.. You have to really be a terrible waiter for me to leave anything less than 20%.

We always tip 20% of the total bill (including tax) and then round it up to the next dollar when it is added to our meal total.

 

[shadonjenon]

I bet that is why so many restaurants charge a shared/extra plate fee. It's really not fair to the server who gets stuck with the family of 4 splitting 2 meals while another server gets a table of 4 that *amazingly* orders 4 dinners.

I call that the luck of the draw. There will be tables with large bills and others with lower bills. I guess its not fare to the server that gets stuck working the breakfast shift because we all know that breakfast menus are priced lower therefore resulting in a lower tip.

 

[Mickey-4-Me]

Three problems with your math.
1) 2-3 Tables is normal for servers. Only the top servers can handle 5+ tables. I know this from people who do work in the industry.
2) Not all tables will be DDP and not all OOP people tip.
3) Server Jone had to pay any bus people and the bartender too. That could be about 8% total, so he gets 10%.

Doing your numbers again.
3 tables and 10% of $50/table is $18/hr. Not exactly rolling in dough.

1.) Hmmm. It must be different in WDW because I've been a server. I have never had just 2-3 tables even at the age of 18-20 - a far cry from the "top server" title. Plus, most servers request additional tables. Just for curiosity, I will gently ask in conversation before the dinner is over how many tables that particular server has.

2.) Okay. Even if all of the server's tables were not on the DDP, surely THE MAJORITY of people paying OOP tip. Most people know if they dine in a TS location to tip. Even the folks that may not tip 15%, 18%, or 20%+, they will probably leave a $5.00 bill+ at least. At least in my experience.

3.) I don't know what the going cut is for bus people/ bartenders. I do remember doing this, and I don't remember it breaking the bank.

IMO Even with your worst case scenario, $18.00/hour for unskilled labor is not that bad. Yes, there is an art to being a good server -- but come on it isn't brain surgery or rocket science. If you can't afford to raise your famiy and the tips are THAT unpredictable then get a different job. Hmmm... Just for curiousity, I will also ask gently in conversation before the dinner is over how many years they have worked for Disney. That should speak volumes.

Let's just agree to disagree because we could create "what if" scenarios for days. IMO, I tip well. How much most people tip is determined mainly by how much their meal cost, and the cost of a meal at a given restaurant is usually only tenuously connected to the work required to serve it. (It’s just as easy to open a hundred-dollar bottle of wine as it is to open a thirty-dollar bottle). (It's just as easy to carry a burger plate that cost $9.99 as it is to carry a seafood platter that cost $27.99.)

There are hours where a server makes great money and other times when the restaurant is empty and they only make the $3/hr.

The Unofficial Guide to WDW 2006, quotes attendance according to the Amusement Business magazine for WDW in the year 2004. The average yearly attendance for WDW (in 2004) is 40.7 million. The 40.7 million attendees are a captive audience and are eating somewhere. Sure, you could argue that they may not be eating TS, but I can't see going to WDW and not having a character meal or two (TS), Dad wanting to eat a great steak or seafood dinner (TS), or a Mom wanting to take her pretty princess to CRT (TS). After all, we are talking about a family vay cay to WDW, not the must do meal in your local neighborhood. People spend $$ on vay cay.