Service Dogs (found one rule that looked suspicious, not at any Disney park)

[bcla]

How is requiring service dogs to be trained and therefore registered/licensed an imposition upon a disabled person? True service dogs REQUIRE tons of training. That training is generally done by specific organizations. Simply getting the proper paperwork when you acquire the dog would be a pretty easy and seamless solution.


As for the vest - I simply do not believe that a vest is in any way a distraction to any true service dog. Seeing-eye dogs wear a vest and harness and handle, for goodness’ sake. There are plenty of mesh vests that could hold a ticket/badge with the required license. True service animals are also usually VERY expensive, so saying that the cost of a VEST is prohibitive is simply ridiculous. I imagine that whatever service is training/providing the dog can throw in a vest. Honestly, I can’t believe someone would say that purchasing a vest or providing proof of training is somehow impinging upon the rights of the disabled. Those costs are minuscule compared to the lifetime costs of owning a dog. If someone cannot afford a vest for their dog, I question how they can afford the dog at all. They are expensive animals to feed and vet and license, etc., etc., etc.. A vest can be had for under $20 and lasts for years! Do some people get free food/vet care somehow?

I've rarely seen a vest on a guide dog. They usually don't have one. A harness and handle should be enough to mark one as a service dog.

The one thing is that dogs really don't like wearing anything. They actively resist wearing sweaters or anything that most think of as "cute". I got my dog from someone who moved where they could have dogs, and we were handed a piece of doggie clothing that the dog hated. They have to be trained to resist their urges to take off any article of dog clothing other than a collar.

 

[GAN]

I've rarely seen a vest on a guide dog. They usually don't have one. A harness and handle should be enough to mark one as a service dog.

The one thing is that dogs really don't like wearing anything. They actively resist wearing sweaters or anything that most think of as "cute". I got my dog from someone who moved where they could have dogs, and we were handed a piece of doggie clothing that the dog hated. They have to be trained to resist their urges to take off any article of dog clothing other than a collar.

In my opinion, the purpose of the vest is to simply warn people the animal is working so shouldn’t be disturbed, and much less a tag for proof. Besides, I don’t need to see a vest to understand it’s a service animal …it’s evident by watching the animal‘s focus and behavior. I believe comfort animals serve a purpose, I just don’t believe they should be allowed the same access as a service animal …unless they can walk the walk.

 

[AndreaA]

I've rarely seen a vest on a guide dog. They usually don't have one. A harness and handle should be enough to mark one as a service dog.

The one thing is that dogs really don't like wearing anything. They actively resist wearing sweaters or anything that most think of as "cute". I got my dog from someone who moved where they could have dogs, and we were handed a piece of doggie clothing that the dog hated. They have to be trained to resist their urges to take off any article of dog clothing other than a collar.

That may be your experience with dogs and “clothing” but it’s hardly universal. Our springer spaniel LOVES wearing something warm when it’s cold out. He gets ridiculously excited about it. Then there are the orange vests that every dog around here wears during hunting season in the woods - lightweight and barely noticeable to the dog - haven’t seen any dogs resisting wearing them. I mean if a vest is going to bother a dog then they aren’t well-trained enough to be a service animal.

 

[GAN]

That may be your experience with dogs and “clothing” but it’s hardly universal. Our springer spaniel LOVES wearing something warm when it’s cold out. He gets ridiculously excited about it. Then there are the orange vests that every dog around here wears during hunting season in the woods - lightweight and barely noticeable to the dog - haven’t seen any dogs resisting wearing them. I mean if a vest is going to bother a dog then they aren’t well-trained enough to be a service animal.

Yeah ….it’s obvious this guy LOVES wearing his raincoat!

 

[Orion Nebula]

I've rarely seen a vest on a guide dog. They usually don't have one. A harness and handle should be enough to mark one as a service dog.

The one thing is that dogs really don't like wearing anything. They actively resist wearing sweaters or anything that most think of as "cute". I got my dog from someone who moved where they could have dogs, and we were handed a piece of doggie clothing that the dog hated. They have to be trained to resist their urges to take off any article of dog clothing other than a collar.

I don't know if dogs who resist sweaters is a good example. As trained service dogs who wear vests go through a conditioning process. Which causes "attire" to become second nature to them. Several fields that use working dogs also go through the same desensitization process, from bullet proof vests to ear protection. Dogs are highly adaptable and putting on various accessories will often turn on their "time to work" mode. Not to mention harnesses with handles are pretty much smaller vests. I use one that covers 1/3 of my dogs back and is very secure and invasive. But when I get it out my dog goes nuts as she knows we are going for a walk.

 

[kdonnel]

I am not sure why people think a vest makes an animal official in any way. Why would it make you feel better about a service animal being present?

 

[Alicefan]

I guess my first thoughts here are, if you don't have a service dog, why would you feel the need to call up a place and question their rules and regulations about it? My second thought is, no one is going to NOT be able to have their service dog with them because of said rules. Anyone who truly needs their service dog is 100% going to already have these things readily available. If you don't have papers, then you do NOT have a service dog at all. My ex had a service dog, and she wore a leash that said so, but not a vest. She also had paperwork and the only place that asked us about it and wanted to see them was Biltmore House. They did ask what she was trained for. He always had her papers ready but most people wouldn't even look at them and a few places told us that they weren't allowed to ask.

 

[kdonnel]

Anyone who truly needs their service dog is 100% going to already have these things readily available. If you don't have papers, then you do NOT have a service dog at all. My ex had a service dog, and she wore a leash that said so, but not a vest. She also had paperwork and the only place that asked us about it and wanted to see them was Biltmore House. They did ask what she was trained for. He always had her papers ready but most people wouldn't even look at them and a few places told us that they weren't allowed to ask.

What papers? Service animals do not need ANY documentation.

The only registration requirements would be if where the animal lived required annual license or registration for that particular animal, whether a service animal or a pet or whatever.

Service animals are not required to wear anything identifying them as such, they are not registered anywhere or with anyone, and they do not require professional training.

 

[Alicefan]

As far as paperwork goes, also, the ADA does require a service dog to go through a lot of training, but there is no requirement that the training has to be done by a professional. The owner or even a family member or a friend is allowed to train their own dog to be a service dog just as long as the training meets the standards required by the ADA to legally qualify as service dogs. Hiring a professional trainer is extremely expensive and cost prohibitive to some families. Training one own dog to be a service dog is one way to save a lot of money and a wonderful option to those who do not have the money to hire someone to do the training. The ADA does not require documentation of the training and many service dog owners who do the training themselves do not document the training and do not keep a paper trail. The dog is not legally a service dog until it demonstrates full mastery of all of the requirements and qualifications specified by the ADA to qualify as a service dog including mastering the tasks required to accommodate the diagnosed disability or medical condition.

Also, to be eligible for a service dog, in addition to the above, you must have a diagnosed disability or a medical condition that impairs a major life activity (definition of a disability according to the ADA).

Hmmm....none of this is actually true. Anyone can pay the $75 and register their dog as a service dog and receive the proper paperwork. That's why there are so many frauds out there. It goes on the merit system and the dog doesn't have to be trained at all. The above might be the technical jargon but by no means is any of it required in real life to have a "service dog". For some reason they pass out the papers to anyone who is willing to pay. Kinda like everything else in this world when you think about it.

 

[Alicefan]

What papers? Service animals do not need ANY documentation.

The only registration requirements would be if where the animal lived required annual license or registration for that particular animal, whether a service animal or a pet or whatever.

Service animals are not required to wear anything identifying them as such, they are not registered anywhere or with anyone, and they do not require professional training.

??? His dog most definitely was a registered dog WITH paperwork. No they aren't required to wear anything, but typically responsible service dog owners DO have something stating that the dog is working. I'm sure that the paperwork is not required because no one ever wants to see it, but it does exist, and most people that actually NEED a service dog, will have these things. I can't imagine that too many people that rely on these dogs don't bother to register their animal. Even if to simply make life easier in the rare case that it IS required to show the papers, like we did at Biltmore. His dog wouldn't have been allowed in without it and rightfully so IMO.

 

[kdonnel]

??? His dog most definitely was a registered dog WITH paperwork. No they aren't required to wear anything, but typically responsible service dog owners DO have something stating that the dog is working. I'm sure that the paperwork is not required because no one ever wants to see it, but it does exist, and most people that actually NEED a service dog, will have these things. I can't imagine that too many people that rely on these dogs don't bother to register their animal. Even if to simply make life easier in the rare case that it IS required to show the papers, like we did at Biltmore. His dog wouldn't have been allowed in without it and rightfully so IMO.

If the Biltmore had refused admission because of a lack of "papers" than they would have been wrong and in violation of the ADA.

All those services out there offering to let you register your animal are just taking advantage of someone

 

[Moliphino]

??? His dog most definitely was a registered dog WITH paperwork. No they aren't required to wear anything, but typically responsible service dog owners DO have something stating that the dog is working. I'm sure that the paperwork is not required because no one ever wants to see it, but it does exist, and most people that actually NEED a service dog, will have these things. I can't imagine that too many people that rely on these dogs don't bother to register their animal. Even if to simply make life easier in the rare case that it IS required to show the papers, like we did at Biltmore. His dog wouldn't have been allowed in without it and rightfully so IMO.

Service dogs don't need to be registered.
https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?

A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.
Q8. Do service animals have to wear a vest or patch or special harness identifying them as service animals?

A. No. The ADA does not require service animals to wear a vest, ID tag, or specific harness.

Q17. Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?
A. No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.
There are individuals and organizations that sell service animal certification or registration documents online. These documents do not convey any rights under the ADA and the Department of Justice does not recognize them as proof that the dog is a service animal.

Q20. My city requires me to register my dog as a service animal. Is this legal under the ADA?

A. No. Mandatory registration of service animals is not permissible under the ADA. However, as stated above, service animals are subject to the same licensing and vaccination rules that are applied to all dogs.

 

[GAN]

Hmmm....none of this is actually true. Anyone can pay the $75 and register their dog as a service dog and receive the proper paperwork. That's why there are so many frauds out there. It goes on the merit system and the dog doesn't have to be trained at all. The above might be the technical jargon but by no means is any of it required in real life to have a "service dog". For some reason they pass out the papers to anyone who is willing to pay. Kinda like everything else in this world when you think about it.

Well...... not really

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

It clearly states that.... Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities.

So they are to be trained for the specific disability -although no paperwork is required. But the lack of requirement of "proof" doesn't mean a person would be protected by the ADA -at some point you would need to PROVE the animal has had that specific training. Comfort and emotional support dogs are totally excluded.

 

[kdonnel]

So they are to be trained for the specific disability -although no paperwork is required. But the lack of requirement of "proof" doesn't mean a person would be protected by the ADA -at some point you would need to PROVE the animal has had that specific training. Comfort and emotional support dogs are totally excluded.

At no point should you EVER have to prove a service animal has had any training.

 

[Kennywood]

I would think that a person who requires a service dog would WANT that dog to be wearing a vest. The vest identifies the dog as a service animal and not an average dog anyone would routinely distract or pet.

And since I would imagine fake service vests can be purchased online, it's not unreasonable that documentation be on-hand. Since most people have cell phones, the documentation can easily be added to the phone's "wallet".

Wouldn't someone requiring the use of a service dog want to weed out those who don't truly need a service animal? That would make more resources available to those who do need a service animal.

 

[kdonnel]

I would think that a person who requires a service dog would WANT that dog to be wearing a vest. The vest identifies the dog as a service animal and not an average dog anyone would routinely distract or pet.

And since I would imagine fake service vests can be purchased online, it's not unreasonable that documentation be on-hand. Since most people have cell phones, the documentation can easily be added to the phone's "wallet".

Wouldn't someone requiring the use of a service dog want to weed out those who don't truly need a service animal? That would make more resources available to those who do need a service animal.

I would think someone who required a service animal would not want to be constantly having to highlight their disability to prove the need to make others comfortable.

 

[Kennywood]

At no point should you EVER have to prove a service animal has had any training.

A dog who is not properly trained for the service for which they are intended is not a service dog. They are an emotional support dog. There is a huge difference. A service dog is trained for specific services. Having documentation that the dog has successfully completed the required training is not unreasonable. A business should be able to know that the dog is properly trained and will not cause problems when entering that business.

Privileges/rights and responsibility are two sides of the same coin. If you want one, the other should be expected.

 

[Moliphino]

I would think that a person who requires a service dog would WANT that dog to be wearing a vest. The vest identifies the dog as a service animal and not an average dog anyone would routinely distract or pet.

And since I would imagine fake service vests can be purchased online, it's not unreasonable that documentation be on-hand. Since most people have cell phones, the documentation can easily be added to the phone's "wallet".

Wouldn't someone requiring the use of a service dog want to weed out those who don't truly need a service animal? That would make more resources available to those who do need a service animal.

The ADA allows for any person to train their own service dog. There is no certification or registration.

 

[Moliphino]

A dog who is not properly trained for the service for which they are intended is not a service dog. They are an emotional support dog. There is a huge difference. A service dog is trained for specific services. Having documentation that the dog has successfully completed the required training is not unreasonable. A business should be able to know that the dog is properly trained and will not cause problems when entering that business.

Privileges/rights and responsibility are two sides of the same coin. If you want one, the other should be expected.

But that's not how the ADA works with regard to service animals.

 

[Kennywood]

I would think someone who required a service animal would not want to be constantly having highlight their disability to prove the need to make others comfortable.

Having a disability is not something that should make others uncomfortable. (We need to learn that, as a society.) Being aware of someone's disability, however, would allow others to show special consideration (not special treatment) to that person.

No one with a disability should ever feel embarrassed or ashamed. But if others are not aware of another person's disability, it could lead to unintended misunderstanding that could cause embarrassment for all involved.