Seriously backwards thinking....

[mi*vida*loca]

And what a crappy insurance plan for being an RN.

 

[DizBelle]

I did not see that anywhere in her initial post and didn't read every post in between - thank you for the clarification.

That said, generally speaking, why criticize someone who you (we) don't know anything about. Who knows why people do the things that they do and make the decisions that they make. For all we know this could be a hypothetical situation that someone is writing about to get people thinking and talking about our country's healthcare woes.

Then I guess I just shouldn't care if she dies and her children are without their mother. If she's going to die she'd better do it a decrease the surplus population.

I think that getting people thinking and talking was a good thing. I do think it is sad that so many don't believe thinking and talking about issues helps anything. If you don't think and talk, where do you think progress comes from?

 

[mi*vida*loca]

People die everyday because they can't afford healthcare. Even in the America. Mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters. It's a horrible truth.

 

[wvjules]

Then I guess I just shouldn't care if she dies and her children are without their mother. If she's going to die she'd better do it a decrease the surplus population.

I think that getting people thinking and talking was a good thing. I do think it is sad that so many don't believe thinking and talking about issues helps anything. If you don't think and talk, where do you think progress comes from?

Not from a Disney message board....

 

[piccolopat]

If I were the sick parent, that is absolutely what I would expect my daughter to do to ensure she is there for my grandchildren.

The consideration here is for her children. She can't do a damn thing for her children if she isn't there. So, she needs to take steps to help ensure that she is there. That means looking after her own health.

Taking care of yourself is an important part of taking care of someone else. A lot of people seem to ignore that.

Yes but she may have had a false negative and additional tests may be totally unnecessary. I wouldn't take a chance of denying care that my mother absolutely needed to live in order to have a test that might be needed. Lets change the example I gave. What if she didn't have the money for her own test because she was paying for medical care for one of her kids? Should she prioritize herself so her other kids don't lose there mother?

 

[Magpie]

I did not see that anywhere in her initial post and didn't read every post in between - thank you for the clarification.

That said, generally speaking, why criticize someone who you (we) don't know anything about. Who knows why people do the things that they do and make the decisions that they make. For all we know this could be a hypothetical situation that someone is writing about to get people thinking and talking about our country's healthcare woes.

My thoughts, exactly.

All we have is the barest of details. RN. Four kids. The OP has never spoken to her, and doesn't know the details of her life. I realize it's a deeply personal issue for the OP, but it's also deeply personal for that woman. And we don't have anywhere near enough information to be judging her fitness as a mother. Nor do I think that criticism and judgement are very effective tools, if the goal of this thread is to "save lives".

Then I guess I just shouldn't care if she dies and her children are without their mother. If she's going to die she'd better do it a decrease the surplus population.

I think that getting people thinking and talking was a good thing. I do think it is sad that so many don't believe thinking and talking about issues helps anything. If you don't think and talk, where do you think progress comes from?

You're coming across less as "caring" and more as "shaming".

You're judging a woman you don't even know, and you're judging her harshly. To what purpose? It distracts from your stated goal of getting people "thinking and talking" about...? What issues exactly? Health care in the US? Pap smears in particular? Balancing family and personal needs?

Exactly what sort of "progress" are we supposed to be achieving here, on this Disney board?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Aye, there's the rub. No I don't know this woman but I would hazard to guess that she actually does have the funds for further tests. She is an RN in Florida and from what I can find, the mean salary for an RN in Florida is about $65,000.

I'll say it again. If the other option is to leave your children without their mother, how can she afford to NOT have the tests and treatment?

Damn right I'm judging her. I lost my mother when I was young and this woman CAN do something to help ensure that doesn't happen to her children and she's not doing it. I'm angry on behalf of her children.

Mean means that some make less, and some make more. Maybe she's in the less category - perhaps so she can have a job with more family-friendly hours. Maybe she's a single Mom. Maybe she is behind on bills or her rent or mortgage. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Who knows. None of us know.

And again, even if she has an abnormal pap, for real, it doesn't necessarily mean she's going to die. Sometimes people need a little time to let things sink in to think about them. Especially nurses, who tend to see the worst of medical situations. Denial can be a strong thing. But it's also a protective mechanism. Most people, even if initially in denial, come around, given time. She may or may not be one of these people. But the odds of all of this happening as you portray it, I think, are just not reasonable. I think your emotional are coloring your thoughts on this.

There are just way too many unknown factors here to jump to conclusions, imho.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Waiting for appointments, tests, follow ups, more appointments, treatment (if it's not to late)... Sky high premiums, deductibles, copays, coinsurance, plus paying for coverage, that isn't need or desired... Not optimal or sufficient. IMO

I agree a system that required shy high premiums, high deductibles, etc. on top of a wait wouldn't be a good system. I've never heard anyone suggest such a ridiculous system.

Incidentally, the only people I've ever seen or heard talk about the extremely long waits in Canada were fear mongering Americans who know little or nothing about their system, other than the propaganda we're fed, & medical professional that want to keep charging whatever they want to insurance companies, Medicare & Medicaid.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

When you say healthcare, do you mean health coverage?

I'm curious how much health care is in those countries. How much is a surgical procedure compared to the same surgical procedure in the US? Health care here is not affordable therefore health coverage here is not affordable.

Here's an article out of 100's comparing Canadian and US healthcare. I didn't read it in it's entirety but it looks interesting and can certainly give better answers than I can.

http://healthjournalism.org/blog/2014/01/comparing-u-s-canadian-health-care-systems/

 

[Magpie]

Incidentally, the only people I've ever seen or heard talk about the extremely long waits in Canada were fear mongering Americans who know little or nothing about their system.

Aw... don't do that!

I know for a fact that our health care system breaks down the further up North you go. Small towns are often under served, and lack doctors, and people have to travel long distances to get medical care. Heck, if you're pregnant and live on a Reserve, you might end up having to be flown several hours south just to deliver your baby. And patients in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have the longest waits for medically necessary surgeries.

I passionately believe in the Canadian system, but I'm not going to pretend that it's perfect, and I'm not going to pretend that extremely long waits don't sometimes happen. http://globalnews.ca/news/3084366/q...it-times-in-canada-by-province-and-procedure/

I'm just grateful that this is MY health care system, because it means I never have to do that painful cost/benefit analysis when it comes to my health.

 

[rotlex]

I can certainly feel for this person. I make a darn good living, however, thanks to the "affordable" care act, my fantastic $25 copay health care plan no longer exists. (But wait, I thought I was going to be able to KEEP my current plan)? Even with our income, having a family with two children now means I get to spend at least 6K out of pocket per year before I get anything from the insurance company. (Not to mention the monthly out of pocket costs just to get to have this great plan). That hurts. A lot. I can't even imagine someone who might not have the kind of income where they can just throw that away every year.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Aw... don't do that!

I know for a fact that our health care system breaks down the further up North you go. Small towns are often under served, and lack doctors, and people have to travel long distances to get medical care. Heck, if you're pregnant and live on a Reserve, you might end up having to be flown several hours south just to deliver your baby. And patients in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have the longest waits for medically necessary surgeries.

I passionately believe in the Canadian system, but I'm not going to pretend that it's perfect, and I'm not going to pretend that extremely long waits don't sometimes happen. http://globalnews.ca/news/3084366/q...it-times-in-canada-by-province-and-procedure/

I'm just grateful that this is MY health care system, because it means I never have to do that painful cost/benefit analysis when it comes to my health.

I'm just saying what I've heard from individuals & watching documentaries. I've personally never heard a Canadian complain, about not being able to go to a doctor, get tests, etc., but I've heard many Americans quoting propaganda that doesn't even make sense about how our system is better. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know all there is to know about Canada's healthcare system, but I know ours doesn't work for a large portion of the population. There has to be a middle ground that helps everyone not just those fortunate enough to have good insurance.

 

[Christine]

And what a crappy insurance plan for being an RN.

I was just reading an article in the Washington Post last night (their weekly health section) about a doctor who did NOT go to the ER when he was having all the signs of a potential heart attack because he has a high deductible plan and he knew how much the emergency room costs could set him back. A doctor!!! I was really surprised. One, because I always think doctors have money but that's not necessarily true, and two, because I just assume that they have good health insurance or some network of "friend" doctors that they can count on. But I didn't quite catch what type of doctor he was, but Iw as surprised at the whole thing.

 

[Christine]

I'm just saying what I've heard from individuals & watching documentaries. I've personally never heard a Canadian complain, about not being able to go to a doctor, get tests, etc., but I've heard many Americans quoting propaganda that doesn't even make sense about how our system is better. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know all there is to know about Canada's healthcare system, but I know ours doesn't work for a large portion of the population. There has to be a middle ground that helps everyone not just those fortunate enough to have good insurance.

I thin our system *used* to be better, and I think you have to go all the way back to the 1980s and maybe 1990 to get back to the "better" times. It's not true anymore and people who are old enough are probably riding those coattails!

 

[Gracie09]

Aw... don't do that!

I know for a fact that our health care system breaks down the further up North you go. Small towns are often under served, and lack doctors, and people have to travel long distances to get medical care. Heck, if you're pregnant and live on a Reserve, you might end up having to be flown several hours south just to deliver your baby. And patients in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have the longest waits for medically necessary surgeries.

I passionately believe in the Canadian system, but I'm not going to pretend that it's perfect, and I'm not going to pretend that extremely long waits don't sometimes happen. http://globalnews.ca/news/3084366/q...it-times-in-canada-by-province-and-procedure/

I'm just grateful that this is MY health care system, because it means I never have to do that painful cost/benefit analysis when it comes to my health.

That's more of a geography issue than a system issue. I am sure there are places in the US where people have limited geographical access to healthcare services.

 

[Magpie]

I was just reading an article in the Washington Post last night (their weekly health section) about a doctor who did NOT go to the ER when he was having all the signs of a potential heart attack because he has a high deductible plan and he knew how much the emergency room costs could set him back. A doctor!!! I was really surprised. One, because I always think doctors have money but that's not necessarily true, and two, because I just assume that they have good health insurance or some network of "friend" doctors that they can count on. But I didn't quite catch what type of doctor he was, but Iw as surprised at the whole thing.

Unfortunately, one of the clinical signs of heart attack/stroke can be a lack of appropriate anxiety. It's not uncommon to see a stroke victim, half of his face drooping, slurring, "No, no, I'm fine!"

When you're in the middle of a serious medical crisis, your brain will often play tricks on you, convincing you that everything is perfectly all right and all you need is a bit of a lie in.

This is one of the reasons people with spouses live longer.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I thin our system *used* to be better, and I think you have to go all the way back to the 1980s and maybe 1990 to get back to the "better" times. It's not true anymore and people who are old enough are probably riding those coattails!

I agree it used to be better, but it started going downhill long before ACA. If we had a system that allowed all Americans access to good insurance, the ACA would have never been tried.

 

[Magpie]

That's more of a geography issue than a system issue. I am sure there are places in the US where people have limited geographical access to healthcare services.

True! And having a smaller population over all, also means Canada has fewer specialists, research facilities, etc.

That may change, though... I've been hearing rumours that our universities may be getting a boost, when it comes to attracting international talent.

 

[pat fan]

Our healthcare system has needed an overhaul for many years. The question is, "what is the solution?" Simply going back to millions having no insurance isnt, unless you (a general you) only care about yourself & are good with others having no quality of life at all or worse dying without the medical care they need. Unfortunately, it appears we have way too many people in this country who only care about themself. That's a sad statement for a supposedly civilized society.

I will assume you didn't watch the program on CNN where they were discussing what I referenced. So no, people are NOT only concerned for themselves and there were some solid solutions presented for getting costs down, which is what needs to happen. I can't say much more without it getting into politics, but there are things being discussed that can help hopefully, and why should I pay for a plan that has maternity & birth control when I've had a hysterectomy and my DH has had a vasectomy??? Shouldn't we be able to say, no thanks, I'll get a cheaper plan that doesn't include that?? It's about having the option to choose the coverage we want, not HAVE to have every kind of coverage because someone says so.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I agree a system that required shy high premiums, high deductibles, etc. on top of a wait wouldn't be a good system. I've never heard anyone suggest such a ridiculous system.

Incidentally, the only people I've ever seen or heard talk about the extremely long waits in Canada were fear mongering Americans who know little or nothing about their system, other than the propaganda we're fed, & medical professional that want to keep charging whatever they want to insurance companies, Medicare & Medicaid.

I'm just saying what I've heard from individuals & watching documentaries. I've personally never heard a Canadian complain, about not being able to go to a doctor, get tests, etc., but I've heard many Americans quoting propaganda that doesn't even make sense about how our system is better. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know all there is to know about Canada's healthcare system, but I know ours doesn't work for a large portion of the population. There has to be a middle ground that helps everyone not just those fortunate enough to have good insurance.

To be clear, I NEVER said our system was better, just that saying do it like x,y,z counties isn't a fix all since it comes with it's own problems.

Although my grandmother's brother did have the long wait for cancer treatment in Canada, that wasn't actually the country I was talking about in my earlier post. I am smart enough to know that anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence. But it's also really disrespectful to assume that anybody who finds issues with universal healthcare in other counties doesnt know anything about it and are only believing fearmongering.