Seriously backwards thinking....

[kimblebee]

As a Canadian, this has fortunately not been my experience at all.

From childbirth, to accidents and illness, to surgeries, to cancer diagnoses and treatment, to palliative care, my experience of our health care system has been entirely satisfactory. While there is no system that can't be improved in some way, I am very happy with the care my family and I have received.

Totally agree with you. Once I got the results of my biopsies I had my pre-op within a week and surgery three weeks later. I don't think that's unreasonable. If my dr. feels I urgently need an MRI, he can get me in the next day. I agree we're not perfect, far from it, but I'd take it every time over the alternative.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It will be interesting to see what they come up with...when they finally do. 2018? 2019? They aren't in any rush.
Most of what I've heard is that they are considering offering more "affordable" plans with far less benefits. Sorta what there used to be when people thought they were covered, but only had here's a bandaid type plans.

This depends on where you're reading.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Waiting months would be a big improvement over not being able to get tests at all, which is the way our current health system works for many.

Waiting for appointments, tests, follow ups, more appointments, treatment (if it's not to late)... Sky high premiums, deductibles, copays, coinsurance, plus paying for coverage, that isn't need or desired... Not optimal or sufficient. IMO

 

[DizBelle]

The problem is you're not having a meaningful discussion. The tone of your posts is not that you want to discuss solving a problem but that you want to judge someone who is forced to make a hard decision. You are not understanding that if someone literally doesn't have the money for additional tests, they literally can't afford to get additional tests. That's a terrible place many are put in and absolutely worth discussing.
Judging someone in that position as making a bad choice and questioning her as a mother is just mean.

Aye, there's the rub. No I don't know this woman but I would hazard to guess that she actually does have the funds for further tests. She is an RN in Florida and from what I can find, the mean salary for an RN in Florida is about $65,000.

I'll say it again. If the other option is to leave your children without their mother, how can she afford to NOT have the tests and treatment?

Damn right I'm judging her. I lost my mother when I was young and this woman CAN do something to help ensure that doesn't happen to her children and she's not doing it. I'm angry on behalf of her children.

 

[DizBelle]

Where does the money come from to have the follow up tests?

If it were me, I'd find it somewhere.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Aye, there's the rub. No I don't know this woman but I would hazard to guess that she actually does have the funds for further tests. She is an RN in Florida and from what I can find, the mean salary for an RN in Florida is about $65,000.

I'll say it again. If the other option is to leave your children without their mother, how can she afford to NOT have the tests and treatment?

Damn right I'm judging her. I lost my mother when I was young and this woman CAN do something to help ensure that doesn't happen to her children and she's not doing it. I'm angry on behalf of her children.

You don't actually know what her situation is though. Until you do, your anger is misplaced. Seriously, be a better person.

 

[piccolopat]

Re: bolded - if she doesn't have the tests and then whatever potential treatment is needed, the other option is to leave her kids without their mother. Why would any mother choose that? We're not talking about her skipping a cheeseburger so her kids can have one. We're talking about saving her life so her kids can have their mother.

If this woman really does not have the money, how does she have the tests? Providers will expect payment, sometimes in advance when a high deductible insurance plan is all the patient has. Like others have said, not having the tests isn't really a choice if you can't pay for the choice to have the tests done. This is an example of why the ACA is a failure and why we need a better solution.

 

[Hikergirl]

Here's a crazy idea. They can look at the healthcare of Canada, Spain, Germany, Norway, Denmark, UK etc, etc healthcare and copy one plan. Any one.

When you say healthcare, do you mean health coverage?

I'm curious how much health care is in those countries. How much is a surgical procedure compared to the same surgical procedure in the US? Health care here is not affordable therefore health coverage here is not affordable.

 

[Poohlove]

Instead of taking a "what are you thinking approach" with her try speaking to her compassionately about the situation. I'm sure that the gravity of the situation is not lost on her and if she doesn't have the money she doesn't have the money. Sometimes people focus on the side of things that they can control (finances) rather than what they can not (biopsy results). Speaking to her and letting her hash it all out might be what she needs to realize that she is able to afford it if she breaks it into payments and pays over an extended period if time. As someone else suggested maybe a group of friends can offer to help.

 

[sam_gordon]

If it were me, I'd find it somewhere.

Would you sell your house? Give up the internet? Pay TV? Cell phone? Take a second job (who takes care of the kids)? How much are the tests? I think it's easy to sit back and say "I'd find the money", but when you don't know where she lives, how much money she makes, what her expenses are, etc, IMO, you shouldn't judge.

 

[Magpie]

Maybe. Maybe not. If one life is saved, isn't it worth it?

Just for fun, let's logically deconstruct the "if it saved one life" argument.

1. This statement in no way proves that one life WILL be saved by this particular thread. Perhaps this thread might actually dissuade someone from getting tested. Who knows?

2. It oversimplifies the issue.

3. "If it saves even one life," can be used to support ANY argument, no matter how nonsensical. "If convincing people to stop using knives to butter their bread saves even ONE human life, isn't it worth it?"

4. You're avoiding any meaningful cost/benefit analysis of the existence/non-existence of this thread, by implying that a human life hangs in the balance. How heartless would I have to be to even consider jeopardizing a human life, by debating the usefulness of this thread?

5. Having been cast as a human-life-hating monster, my opinion no longer matters.

On the other hand, as a way to quickly and efficiently shut down debate, "if it saves even one life" does have its value.

 

[Poohlove]

It is not useless. Imagine getting hit with a major injury or illness and your responsible for only $20,000 instead of $1M or $2M. That's the real point of insurance. To protect you from major financial responsibility in case of something catastrophic. It's not there to pay for every little thing.

If she truly can't afford it then when one of her children has an abnormal test that needs further investigation, she wouldn't have that done either right?

Maybe that is factoring into her decision to not have further testing - perhaps she feels the money she spends on her own testing might be better allocated to her children should they need it. I understand it's a deductible and once it's met you are done for the year but what happens when it's mid December?

 

[Magpie]

Instead of taking a "what are you thinking approach" with her try speaking to her compassionately about the situation. I'm sure that the gravity of the situation is not lost on her and if she doesn't have the money she doesn't have the money. Sometimes people focus on the side of things that they can control (finances) rather than what they can not (biopsy results). Speaking to her and letting her hash it all out might be what she needs to realize that she is able to afford it if she breaks it into payments and pays over an extended period if time. As someone else suggested maybe a group of friends can offer to help.

The OP doesn't actually know the woman.

 

[piccolopat]

Aye, there's the rub. No I don't know this woman but I would hazard to guess that she actually does have the funds for further tests. She is an RN in Florida and from what I can find, the mean salary for an RN in Florida is about $65,000.

I'll say it again. If the other option is to leave your children without their mother, how can she afford to NOT have the tests and treatment?

Damn right I'm judging her. I lost my mother when I was young and this woman CAN do something to help ensure that doesn't happen to her children and she's not doing it. I'm angry on behalf of her children.

Without the facts, you are judging this based on your own unfortunate family situation. You assume this woman has the funds but you don't know anything about what her expenses are. Perhaps she is supporting a sick parent. Would you have her choose to pay for a test for herself instead of paying for a doctor to save her mother's life?

 

[smiths02]

A woman (an RN no less) had a pap smear and it came back "very abnormal". Because she has a high deductible health plan, her coverage does not pay for anything until she reaches here deductible. So, she would have to pay for the additional tests. She says she cannot afford them so she chooses to not have the tests. She now wonders if she has an undiagnosed cancer that will take her away from her 4 children.

She's saying she "can't afford to have the tests". She's a mother of 4 and I say how can she afford to not have those tests?

What in the world is she thinking?!?!?

You think you know her salary, which we don't know her expenses (her savings) and we don't know how much the tests costs. We don't know if she'd miss work, get fired, not have anyone to care for her children while the tests were done.

If the tests are $10,000. She literally might not have the money, and the doctors might not do the test.

I don't know where she finds the money. If it were a child, I'm sure she would do whatever she could, but there are many more charities and sympathy for a child with a condition and not quite as many for an adult with an abnormal pap (which may not even be a problem).

 

[DizBelle]

Without the facts, you are judging this based on your own unfortunate family situation. You assume this woman has the funds but you don't know anything about what her expenses are. Perhaps she is supporting a sick parent. Would you have her choose to pay for a test for herself instead of paying for a doctor to save her mother's life?

If I were the sick parent, that is absolutely what I would expect my daughter to do to ensure she is there for my grandchildren.

The consideration here is for her children. She can't do a damn thing for her children if she isn't there. So, she needs to take steps to help ensure that she is there. That means looking after her own health.

Taking care of yourself is an important part of taking care of someone else. A lot of people seem to ignore that.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

Aye, there's the rub. No I don't know this woman but I would hazard to guess that she actually does have the funds for further tests. She is an RN in Florida and from what I can find, the mean salary for an RN in Florida is about $65,000.

I'll say it again. If the other option is to leave your children without their mother, how can she afford to NOT have the tests and treatment?

Damn right I'm judging her. I lost my mother when I was young and this woman CAN do something to help ensure that doesn't happen to her children and she's not doing it. I'm angry on behalf of her children.

But you have no idea how much she actually makes and you have no idea how much money it takes her to rais her children.
My mom was an RN for 40 years and my dad worked for the city.
While we never longed for the essentials we also didn't have what others had.
We did not have a computer, the internet, caller ID, cable, designer anything.... We only received non essential items at Christmas such as barbies, dolls, electronics...
We did go to WDW every year but we didn't stay on property, did not eat meals at the parks, did not buy tons of souvenirs....

 

[Poohlove]

The OP doesn't actually know the woman.

I did not see that anywhere in her initial post and didn't read every post in between - thank you for the clarification.

That said, generally speaking, why criticize someone who you (we) don't know anything about. Who knows why people do the things that they do and make the decisions that they make. For all we know this could be a hypothetical situation that someone is writing about to get people thinking and talking about our country's healthcare woes.

 

[wvjules]

A woman (an RN no less) had a pap smear and it came back "very abnormal". Because she has a high deductible health plan, her coverage does not pay for anything until she reaches here deductible. So, she would have to pay for the additional tests. She says she cannot afford them so she chooses to not have the tests. She now wonders if she has an undiagnosed cancer that will take her away from her 4 children.

She's saying she "can't afford to have the tests". She's a mother of 4 and I say how can she afford to not have those tests?

What in the world is she thinking?!?!?

Sounds a lot like the story from the lady in the audience at the Sanders/Cruz healthcare debate.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Considering that offices check deductibles before they even do the tests and want most, if not all of the cost up front, I can see her not having the money.

She has 4 kids. Not being able to afford it is a real thing. I think sometimes people who have the means or have family who can help them can't really wrap their head around someone literally not having the money to afford something. Or have no one to go to for the money or can't take a loan out.

I work at a hospital. I have a patient that had to push back her surgery two weeks because she can't afford the bus fair to get here for her pre admission testing. Being poor is a real thing. Especially the working poor.