Security "taking" discarded products

[bicker]

Name-calling is unwarranted.

I don't think anyone has necessarily made this claim, but it should be clear that paying for that preferential treatment doesn't include preferential treatment with regard to compliance with ANY restrictions on carry-ons that the TSA should choose to impose. Every passenger should, unequivocally, comply with those restrictions, voluntarily, without argument and without any thought of seeing what the passenger could either deliberately or inadvertently sneak past.

 

[bavaria]

Name-calling is unwarranted.

I don't think anyone has necessarily made this claim, but it should be clear that paying for that preferential treatment doesn't include preferential treatment with regard to compliance with ANY restrictions on carry-ons that the TSA should choose to impose. Every passenger should, unequivocally, comply with those restrictions, voluntarily, without argument and without any thought of seeing what the passenger could either deliberately or inadvertently sneak past.

I'm in agreement with you here - having a 'fastpass' for security still makes us liable for the rules and regulations.

In fact, I am overly careful as I am paranoid of having my customs and immigration 'fastpass' taken away from me for any rule infraction.

 

[ducklite]

Name-calling is unwarranted.

I don't think anyone has necessarily made this claim, but it should be clear that paying for that preferential treatment doesn't include preferential treatment with regard to compliance with ANY restrictions on carry-ons that the TSA should choose to impose. Every passenger should, unequivocally, comply with those restrictions, voluntarily, without argument and without any thought of seeing what the passenger could either deliberately or inadvertently sneak past.

I want to make my position clear. I in no way think I am above being searched. But, when they see a lighter in my bag that isn't there, then spend the time searching for it and suddenly just give up, there's something really wrong with the system. It's either there, or it's not.

And like I said, I've submitted to more thorough security scrutiny than they have, which I find it ironic.

As far as that hand cream, I was entirely expecting it to be found and to surrender it-there was only a squeeze or two left. I'm amazed that even during a hand search where they actually moved it aside that they didn't seize it. I would not have complained. Rather I find it morbidly humourous that it was seen and allowed to go through, because they were tunnel visioned in looking for a lighter that wasn't there. I honestly did not think about mascara being on the banned list, it truly did not occur to me when I packed.

What I DO expect as a CLEAR passenger in Orlando (and soon to be Philly--YEAH!) is to NOT wait in lines behind people coming home with stuffed Mickey's bigger than their three year old, a two year old pitching a fit because she's got to take her shoes off and walk through the metal detector, an extended family off a cruise where none of them speak English and can understand the TSA commands, etc. The CLEAR card does allow me to bypass all that craziness and go directly to an x-ray machine thus save me time.

Anne

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Wow that was some harsh name calling. People do make mistakes. They thought they saw a lighter, they were wrong. And Anne, as a CLEAR traveler and US Airways elite you should know better than to try and get prohibited items past checkpoint. I addressed this is another thread but I will say it again (also another poster addressed some things I will say here as well):

If your prohibited item is seen past the checkpoint it could cause for the terminal and/or concourse to be dumped, swept and everyone would have to be rescreened. What a nice delay that would cause.

It's against the law to bring known prohibited items to the checkpoint area. Maybe a nice fine and possible hearing/jail time would be a good lesson.

Your CLEAR and US Airways elite status does not make you above it all. It does not mean you will NEVER have to deal with any type of inconvience whever you fly. It does not put you on some grand pedestal like you think it does. Maybe you get to bypass the people who aren't used to flying. Whoopee. I think I'd rather deal with them than CLEAR people if you are the example of who has bought that privilege.

 

[bicker]

I want to make my position clear. I in no way think I am above being searched. But, when they see a lighter in my bag that isn't there, then spend the time searching for it and suddenly just give up, there's something really wrong with the system.

I wouldn't say there is anything "wrong" with the system. The system isn't perfect. Expecting such perfection is not reasonable.

It's either there, or it's not.

X-ray scanners are analog devices, and as such don't yield digital (yes/no) results.

As far as that hand cream, I was entirely expecting it to be found and to surrender it-there was only a squeeze or two left.

You should have discarded it before you reached the security check-point. There is no excuse for not having done so. You actually committed a felony (READ the regulation -- it says that it is a felony even to accidently bring contraband to the security checkpoint), regardless of whether they actually charge with you it.

 

[ducklite]

Your CLEAR and US Airways elite status does not make you above it all. It does not mean you will NEVER have to deal with any type of inconvience whever you fly.

I never said it did.

You are missing the entire point. Regardless of what the TSA does or does not ban on an airplane, until they hire screeners that have the brain capacity to do more than fog a mirror, it's all lip service.

Anne

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I am no fan of the TSA, but I would love to see you try and do that job.

Humans make mistakes. As long as humans perform the job things are not going to be 100% accurate.

 

[Deb T.]

Okay, let me get this straight - the TSA screeners thought they saw a lighter in your bag through their x-ray machine, correct? So they searched it for a mere three minutes even though you knew you didn't have a lighter, correct? As a frequent flier and one who would like all flights to be safe, I'm not sure I understand your gripe.

So you have a Clear card. Great. You've undergone more scrutiny than the TSA agents. Wonderful. You've paid for the privilege of bypassing anyone who might inconvenience you in a security line. Nice.

Let's look at the screener's job for a moment. The TSA are entrusted with my personal safety. I WANT them to be thorough when looking for anything that could pose a threat to me or the aircraft I am riding in. They don't know any of us, and even if they did I still don't think that should make a difference. They NEED to assume the worst and hope for the best. For heavens sake, one of the people arrested in Great Britain WORKED at the airport. Terrorists receive a substantial amount of funding. I'm sure that Clear cards could be duplicated or bought. I'm sure that if a terrorist wanted to get something dangerous through security, he/she just might be able to do so. I can think of many ways that certain things could easily be hidden. A terrorist is going to have the same reaction you did - insisting there isn't a lighter or gel or liquid or bomb or whatever in their luggage. It doesn't matter because for all the TSA knew, you had the lighter stuffed in a pants pocket or in a well concealed section of your suitcase. Just because they searched for something they believed was there, but you knew it wasn't, doesn't make them ignorant. Just be thankful that you arrive safely at your destination every time you fly.

And yes, my person and my bags have had extra screening over the years. I've learned how to better pack to avoid that now. I keep the items I know will cause extra scrutiny in a large plastic baggie in the outside pocket of my carry-on suitcase so I can easily pull it out and put it in the container that goes through the x-ray machine with my shoes, jacket, cell phone, and keys. Some of these items include: Disney trading pins as well as the new ones I purchase, a travel door lock I purchased at the hardware store for extra security in hotel rooms, and the small metal container that I carry my prescription migraine medicine in at all times. This way, these things can be easily pulled and checked without anyone having to rummage through my suitcase.

So, please don't fault the TSA. They're just doing their job. It's a hard job, with lots of gray areas. Obviously, some passengers can be difficult. Smile, thank them, and move on to your safe flight.

 

[safetymom]

I am sorry but I don't think you can say that every TSA agent is doing their job. I certainly don't feel safer after some of the stuff I see go on in airports.

I have been stopped because they thought they saw something and they didn't. I don't pack things that aren't allowed. I have seen TSA agents make examples of people that didn't deserve it. That sure doesn't make me feel any safer.

You may be able to duplicate a Clear hard but it would be hard to get the retina scan or finger print for the person you are imitating. Maybe everyone should have to undergo the background checks we did in order to fly?

 

[ducklite]

Okay, let me get this straight - the TSA screeners thought they saw a lighter in your bag through their x-ray machine, correct? So they searched it for a mere three minutes even though you knew you didn't have a lighter, correct? As a frequent flier and one who would like all flights to be safe, I'm not sure I understand your gripe.

My gripe is that they spent three minutes tearing apart an almost empty suitcase that had two "banned" items (one which I truly did not know was banned) and actually moved one of the items looking for a lighter which they insisted they saw on the x-ray--they asked me three times where the lighter was. During this time looking for said ficticious lighter they came across both "banned" items and never took them from my suitcase! I'm not sure how much more clear I can make that. I did not have a lighter, they insisted that I had one to the point that they were ready to disassemble my actual suitcase to find it, yet they ignored the other items that WERE there because they were so tunnel visioned about the lighter that WASN'T!

Let's look at the screener's job for a moment. The TSA are entrusted with my personal safety. I WANT them to be thorough when looking for anything that could pose a threat to me or the aircraft I am riding in.

As do I! But I want them to also have some common sense.

They don't know any of us, and even if they did I still don't think that should make a difference. They NEED to assume the worst and hope for the best. For heavens sake, one of the people arrested in Great Britain WORKED at the airport. Terrorists receive a substantial amount of funding. I'm sure that Clear cards could be duplicated or bought. I'm sure that if a terrorist wanted to get something dangerous through security, he/she just might be able to do so. I can think of many ways that certain things could easily be hidden. A terrorist is going to have the same reaction you did - insisting there isn't a lighter or gel or liquid or bomb or whatever in their luggage.

Again, it's not that they went looking for it, it's that they missed other things while tearing apart my suitcase. omething which they insisted was in the suitcase, because they saw it on the x-ray. I have no idea what they did see, but it wasn't a lighter. And you bring me to my other point--the terrorist that worked in the airport. Until the TSA can somehow guarantee that all the people in the airport are not terrorists or can't be paid-off--and considering how many criminals are regularly found working in secure areas of airports, they aren't even close--they need to stop harrassing the flying public and spend more time cleaning their own house.

It doesn't matter because for all the TSA knew, you had the lighter stuffed in a pants pocket or in a well concealed section of your suitcase. Just because they searched for something they believed was there, but you knew it wasn't, doesn't make them ignorant. Just be thankful that you arrive safely at your destination every time you fly.

Again, you are missing the point.

And yes, my person and my bags have had extra screening over the years. I've learned how to better pack to avoid that now. I keep the items I know will cause extra scrutiny in a large plastic baggie in the outside pocket of my carry-on suitcase so I can easily pull it out and put it in the container that goes through the x-ray machine with my shoes, jacket, cell phone, and keys.

All electronics and anything with a cord including a compact flash card reader were in a ziplock and had gone through with my shoes. My laptop was in a seperate bin. The only things in my suitcase were clothes (two pair of shorts, two t-shirts, two pair of panties and two bras), some bottles of prescription meds with labels, a couple of tea bags, my makeup (sans anything liquid except mascara which I didn't know was a problem), a plastic hairbrush, and that almost empty tube of handcream.

So, please don't fault the TSA. They're just doing their job. It's a hard job, with lots of gray areas. Obviously, some passengers can be difficult. Smile, thank them, and move on to your safe flight.

Now that you've gotten a better idea of what was in my suitcase and what the scenario was--you'll maybe see what the problem is. I'm not faulting the TSA for searching me. I'm faulting them for having "banned" items right under their noses and not "seeing" them. I'm faulting them for insisting that there was a lighter in my suitcase when their wasn't, and then just suddenly stopping their search when they didn't find one rather than putting the bag through the machine again to get a better idea of where to look. KWIM? If they were that sure that there was a lighter, they should have kept searching until they were absolutely certain that they were either mistaken, or they found it. What if there had been a well concealed lighter? What if I was a terrorist? They would then have been responsible for one big blunder.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

You may be able to duplicate a Clear hard but it would be hard to get the retina scan or finger print for the person you are imitating. Maybe everyone should have to undergo the background checks we did in order to fly?

Exactly. It would make me feel a LOT safer if I knew everyone on that plane had to go through the same check that all Clear customers do. In fact I would imagine that would probably take 99.999% of the danger out of our skies.

Anyone who didn't have a Clear card for whatever reason would be subject to very intense additional screening.

Anne

 

[bicker]

Regardless of what TSA does or doesn't do, passengers should voluntarily commplay with all regulations, without exception. Also, bad-mouthing government officials, by calling them "stupid" or accusing them of having insufficient "brain capacity" is rude, and defiles the discussion, and in turn compromises the credibility of anyone engaging in such behavior. It's that kind of thing that makes discussions into disgusing cesspools. Horrible.

 

[ducklite]

Regardless of what TSA does or doesn't do, passengers should voluntarily commplay with all regulations, without exception. Also, bad-mouthing government officials, by calling them "stupid" or accusing them of having insufficient "brain capacity" is rude, and defiles the discussion, and in turn compromises the credibility of anyone engaging in such behavior. It's that kind of thing that makes discussions into disgusing cesspools. Horrible.

Want to hear about my cousin? He's an FBI agent assigned to the TSA. He supervises all this mess at a major FL airport (not MCO). He wasn't bright enough to get into college--my uncle pulled some strings to get him into the University he was a dean at. His grades weren't exactly stellar. That in itself makes me feel really good about our safety. Not.

And BTW--you think I say rude things about them, you ought to hear his opinion! Cesspool might be a word he would use...

Anne

 

[ducklite]

I am no fan of the TSA, but I would love to see you try and do that job.

Humans make mistakes. As long as humans perform the job things are not going to be 100% accurate.

I'd do it better than the woman in saw "watching" the x-ray machine with her eyes closed as she was nodding off in PHL a few months ago...

Anne

 

[Simba's Mom]

I have to fly twice to MCO in the next 2 months.

It is illegal for those agents to take anything. They are government employees, and once confiscated, those items become government property, it is illegal for any goverment employee to take government property even after it has hit the dumpster or the landfill.

Government employees are in a position of public trust. Using their position for private gain is expressly prohibited and could result in their termination.
If their position requires them to take out the trash, then taking items from that trash is an abuse of their position.

I know someone very close to me, that was terminated from their government position for taking government trash valued at less than $100. I am also a government employee and that is one thing they are very strict about.

Beyond Reproach and Public Trust are key words for Government Employees. In our ethics training they tell us "If you wouldnt want it on the front page of the newspaper then you are most likely in violation of Government Ethics.

Obviously these employees missed that training.

You're saying what I was thinking. Isn't what they're doing kind of like, umm, THEFT?

 

[PCFriar80]

Wow! TSA and now the FBI!! This is better than summer reruns!! I see a big old lock coming for this thread!!

 

[molly2004]

Just wondering if they saw the mascara and thought it was a lighter. Found the mascara and said, "okay, it's not a lighter" and moved on......maybe it was just that simple.

 

[Pinnie]

I wonder if the OP had a pack of tin mints in her purse? I saw a TSA agent once open a pack of the STARBUCKS mints because on the machine, it looks a LOT like a lighter by it's shape and the fact that it is metal.

pinnie

 

[Mickey-4-Me]

The recent terrorist events forced TSA to make the rules. The employees did not make those rules. True - the unused items should be donated; however, if those items were going to be trashed then why not get some use out of it? I don't see a problem with it. I would feel better knowing that my $$ spent on the products was being used by someone rather than simply being trashed.

As far as being chosen to be searched versus someone else -- the choice is supposed to be random. For example, the TSA agent will count and search every 5th person. They search my bags, my person, my shoes, my purse.... My husband just walks on by. I have been made to drink my liquids in front of an agent prior to boarding pre-911 and post-911. I always think to myself - I don't look like a terrorist - I look like a young, suburban mommy. But, oh well. That's the price you pay for safety when you fly at 30,000 feet going 600 mph. No complaints here.

 

[ducklite]

Just wondering if they saw the mascara and thought it was a lighter. Found the mascara and said, "okay, it's not a lighter" and moved on......maybe it was just that simple.

Actually that was one of the first things they stumbled on and kept going and kept asking where the lighter was. Like I said, it wasn't that they were searching, but that they ignored the mascara and hand cream and then just gave up when they had been so certain the item was there. That didn't give me the warm fuzzies.

Anne