Seat Assignments w/children

[Lauren0505]

Hi fellow Disers.
Hoping someone might have some information that might help. We recently had some friends fly Air Tran and had the most horrible experience. Their children are ages 7 and 9 and Air Tran had them seated all over the plane (separated by 4-8 rows). Obviously, they were unhappy and it seems cruel to make a 7 year old sit with strangers during a flight.
Anyway, on out last visit to WDW the resort airline check-in cast member had told me that FL state law prohibits airlines from seating children on a different row than their parents. Does anyone know if this is true or have any experience with this? I have done some searching but have come up with nothing.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It's not true. Florida had no jurisdiction over airline regulations. Children as young as five or six can fly as unaccompanied minors - so no, it's not cruel to have a seven year old seated with strangers when their parents are on the same plane.

Many airlines provide the opportunity to pay to select seats at the time of booking, or at any point prior to 24 hours before flight departure. Some even offer it free. Passengers who don't choose seats in advance for whatever reason - lack of knowledge, avoiding fees, whatever - end up with whatever seats are unassigned.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

The reply from kaytieeldr is very good.

When my kids where little in the 1990s (and when they were a bit older in the 2000s), most seats on most airlines could be pre-assigned at the time of booking. Any families that didn't wait until the last few weeks on most flights could easily get seat assignments together, at no additional charge beyond the ticket price. (Once most seats had been assigned, families would find themselves separated, even back then.)

Over the past decade, more and more airlines have been going to a la carte pricing for luggage, food, and seat assignments.

More and more airlines are designating some percentage of economy seats as "preferred" (or some other term similar to that). It varies by airline. It could be all aisle and window seats in the front two thirds of the economy cabin. Sometimes such seats provide more legroom. Often they're completely standard seats with standard legroom, but more desirable locations in the cabin.

Families have two choices if they want seats together:

The family can pay extra for the "preferred" seats, if that opens up adjacent seats. For example, by getting two free middle seats and the adjacent extra-charge aisle or window seat, a family of four can have two pairs of seats, each occupied by one parent and one child.

Or the family can get to the airport early and ask the front counter agent or gate agent for seats together. There are some rows under airport control, and there are case where business people either upgrade to first class or reschedule their travel (with their expensive, flexible "full fare" economy tickets), opening up more economy seats. This option is a gamble. The agent must have adjacent, unassigned seats to make this work.

 

[NotUrsula]

Sorry, no. There is NO law in effect anywhere in the US, federal, state or local, that has anything at all to do with the contiguous seating of minors on commercial aircraft, EXCEPT that 14 CFR 131.311 mandates that any child who is sitting in an FAA-approved CSR (aka carseat) must be seated next to someone in his/her party who is at least 14 years old and who will be responsible for removing the child from the carseat in the event of an emergency evacuation.

In practice, most airlines will try very hard not to seat a child who is 4 years old or younger without one adult in the party in the same row or directly in front of or behind the child. However, once the child gets to age 5, he or she is old enough to fly as an unaccompanied minor, so at that age or older, the only normal recourse is depending upon the kindness of strangers to be willing to trade seats.

European-based carriers are subject to the laws of their chartering countries in this regard, and some countries do mandate contiguous seating of passengers under a certain age with an adult in the same party if one is on board. The rule for the UK, for example, applies up to age 11.

 

[PlutoPony]

With respect to Air Tran, you can check in for your flight 24 hours in advance of departure and choose your seats at that time. At any point prior to 24 hour check in, you also have the option of paying a fee ($6-$20 / seat I believe) to pick your seats in advance and be in control of this. Most recommend spending the extra $ if it's REALLY IMPORTANT that you sit with someone or be seated in a particular seat / part of the plane. In my limited experience with AT (and from what I've read here), with so many families/children flying to Orlando, many people want the same thing - to sit by a family member. And to assure that happens, a good chunk of them pay for seat assignments. That leaves fewer adjacent seats available at the "free" 24 hour check in window AND less people on the plane willing/able to switch seats with others who did not pay in advance and aren't happy with the seats they got when they checked in.

HTH

 

[jsilvers]

Sorry, no. There is NO law in effect anywhere in the US, federal, state or local, that has anything at all to do with the contiguous seating of minors on commercial aircraft, EXCEPT that 14 CFR 131.311 mandates that any child who is sitting in an FAA-approved CSR (aka carseat) must be seated next to someone in his/her party who is at least 14 years old and who will be responsible for removing the child from the carseat in the event of an emergency evacuation.

I think you actually meant to refer to section 121.311 ("Seats, safety belts, and shoulder harnesses") - but looking at the text of the regulation (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title14-vol3/xml/CFR-2012-title14-vol3-sec121-311.xml), I don't see any such requirement. Are you perhaps relying on a separate FAA or third-party guidance document?

 

[seashoreCM]

You can get up and check on your children in separate seats periodically during the flight.

I would suggest collecting ipods and other electronic devices, and any valuable items, prior to final descent with the seat belt sign turned on, to avoid having to account for everything during the confusion at disembarking time.

 

[DebbieB]

Hi fellow Disers.
Hoping someone might have some information that might help. We recently had some friends fly Air Tran and had the most horrible experience. Their children are ages 7 and 9 and Air Tran had them seated all over the plane (separated by 4-8 rows). Obviously, they were unhappy and it seems cruel to make a 7 year old sit with strangers during a flight.
Anyway, on out last visit to WDW the resort airline check-in cast member had told me that FL state law prohibits airlines from seating children on a different row than their parents. Does anyone know if this is true or have any experience with this? I have done some searching but have come up with nothing.

Did they purchase seats together in advance? If they did and got switched, then I can understand being upset.

If they didn't and just decided to take their chances, then they gambled and lost. Other people who paid for their seat assignments shouldn't have to give them up so that this family can sit together.

 

[LadyBeBop]

A New York congressman has introduced legislation that would require airlines to seat children and parents together. Apparently, this will not pass Congress this session. However, it's a start.

http://nadler.house.gov/press-release/nadler-pushes-keep-families-seated-together-commercial-flights

And a consumer group has asked teh Secretary of Transporation to require airlines to seat parents and children together.

http://www.citizensforethics.org/pr...n-prohibit-airlines-split-up-children-parents

These are links within a story about a Texas family, who bought their airline tickets to Disney months ago, only to have their plane changed and their seats moved.

http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/20...harging-you-get-to-sit-with-your-kid-fee?lite

 

[mwmom]

Just to clarify for everyone, even though you purchase preferred seats does NOT mean that you will be seated next to your children. We flew this summer and all 3 kids were reassigned seats, even though we had paid for preferred seats. At the airport, they were able to rearrange us so that we were seated together on that particular flight.

This November we will be flying to Orlando and I again paid for preferred seats. It is just my DD and me traveling. I got an email about a month ago that we had been re-booked on a flight 30 minutes later and we were not assigned seats together (they combined 2 flights going to Orlando so I have a feeling that the whole plane is going to be families separated when reassigned to this plane which has a different configuration). I was told when I called that she could not help me, but on a different phone call the lady found 2 aisle seats across from one another and, as of right now, we are at least by each other.

I guess we have always been lucky bc I have never had this issue in all of our years of flying. I believe that the hold they have on preferred seats has caused this to happen more often. If you think about the number of seats in the front of the plane now (aisle and window seats + some middle seats in the first few rows), that is going to impact the number of seats available for families to sit together.

This certainly concerns me because I know children are all different. For all of those parents who have children who will sit alone with strangers surrounding them, this is no problem for them. But, there are children, even if they are older than 5, who are not comfortable with this for a variety of reasons including disabilities, personality, past issues or incidents, etc. Really, the list can go on. My hope is that the airline can work with parents to find a suitable solution when this happens.

I just want everyone to know that preferred seats do not guarantee seats together.

 

[kaytieeldr]

http://nadler.house.gov/press-releas...ercial-flights
“Air travel is complicated and expensive enough for families without adding new stresses,” said Nadler.* “Families should not be stuck paying hidden fees, or buying ‘premium’ seats, simply because they wish to be seated together on crowded flights. *It is positively absurd to expect a two or three-year-old to sit unattended, next to strangers, on an airplane.* It is up to air carriers to make their seating policies clear and easily accessible to the public.”

Families also shouldn't be able to avoid fees to which all other passengers are subjected simply because they're families. Since this is just a description of the bill - really, his brag about it - and not the bill itself, there's no indication how the bill defines 'family'. Sure, this quoted paragraph states two- and three-year-olds... but the bill description just says families purchasing tickets together.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Families also shouldn't be able to avoid fees to which all other passengers are subjected simply because they're families. Since this is just a description of the bill - really, his brag about it - and not the bill itself, there's no indication how the bill defines 'family'. Sure, this quoted paragraph states two- and three-year-olds... but the bill description just says families purchasing tickets together.

I don't know anything about the bill, but airlines AND families need to be accountable, depending on the situation.

If a family (or a couple or even a trio of business travelers) pays extra for seat assignments in adjacent seats, the airline has responsibility to keep those seats together. If there's an equipment substitution or a schedule change, the airline needs to keep the seats together. If the airline makes a mess of things, then the passengers who have been scattered around the cabin should get automatic, reasonable compensation.

If a family (or a couple or even a trio of business travelers) does not make arrangements ahead of time to have pre-assigned seats together (either to avoid paying for preferred seats or because they waited to book until only random middle seats were unassigned), then they can HOPE that a gate agent can find seats together, but they really can't demand it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Secretary LaHood - to whom the group in the second link above wrote with their concerns - pretty much agrees, Horace
http://www.citizensforethics.org/pa...-31-12_LaHood_DOT_Response_Letter.pdf?nocdn=1

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics wants the Department of Transportation to stop the airline from charging seat fees to families; he responds that the DOT is prohibited from regulaing fares or rates. He also points out that airlines have seating charts available and advises [even] families purchase fares early, or select flights where they can sit together.

 

[DebbieB]

It would be very difficult for the airlines to manage. The family in one of the links said they booked tickets a week before and all that was left were scattered seats. So they want the airline to be forced to give them premium seats for free. That isn't fair to other passengers who paid for premium seats. It also isn't fair to force other passengers to move. If you are booking last minute and see the seat chart and all that is left is scattered seats, then don't book it if you don't like it! Now airlines changing flights and moving people around is a different story.

 

[LadyBeBop]

It would be very difficult for the airlines to manage. The family in one of the links said they booked tickets a week before and all that was left were scattered seats. So they want the airline to be forced to give them premium seats for free. That isn't fair to other passengers who paid for premium seats. It also isn't fair to force other passengers to move. If you are booking last minute and see the seat chart and all that is left is scattered seats, then don't book it if you don't like it!

Then that flight would be sold out to that family, the same as if you want a specific flight with no seats remaining. Of course, assuming the children are old enough, the famliy could buy scattered tickets. However, by doing so, you commit to sitting apart from your children. I'm sure many parents of 8-10 year olds would sit apart from their children if the flight was good enough, something parents of 3-6 year olds wouldn't even consider.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

A New York congressman has introduced legislation that would require airlines to seat children and parents together. Apparently, this will not pass Congress this session. However, it's a start.

http://nadler.house.gov/press-release/nadler-pushes-keep-families-seated-together-commercial-flights

And a consumer group has asked teh Secretary of Transporation to require airlines to seat parents and children together.

http://www.citizensforethics.org/pr...n-prohibit-airlines-split-up-children-parents

These are links within a story about a Texas family, who bought their airline tickets to Disney months ago, only to have their plane changed and their seats moved.

http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/20...harging-you-get-to-sit-with-your-kid-fee?lite

Absolutely ridiculous! I think elected officials have much more important issues to deal with. Additionally, no one is guaranteed their preferred seat on a plane. This would be impossible to enforce. That story about the Texas family, which has already been posted here, is also ridiculous. They had 2 seats together, one of the adults could have sat with the child. Plane swaps happen all the time.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The Texas story is made all the more ridiculous by the father admitting he did change seats with his daughter but not being able to sit with his wife made tge vacation less enjoyable. He conveniently neglects to state this "travesty" occurred on the homebound leg of their trip.

 

[Maleficent53]

I can totally understand a parent wanting to be seated with a young (under 6-7 years old) child, but some people get totally stupid about this. I work at an airport and deal with this daily... as a matter of fact, working out the reseating "puzzle" is part of the fun of the job! That said - I cannot always get everyone reseated. I can not always get the family of 8 all seated in one big group...or the mother and her "baby boy" of 17 seated together. Also, the groups that come to the desk after we have boarded 3/4 of the passengers onto a full flight are most likely going to walk away unhappy. There is only so much the agent can do. And it is NOT realistic to think that the flight attendants are going to be moving people around during the boarding process. The focus at that time is to get bags stowed, butts into seats and the door closed so the flight can depart on time.

I don't agree with airline policies of putting people into the position of having to pay extra to get seats together with their family, but it might be the solution some people will need to take. As a PP stated, if you are making a reservation and you look at the seat map (which you should do before buying your nonrefundable tickets if seating is an issue for you) and the only seats are scattered - or none available at all to request - then look to other flights or airlines. If you must purchase that flight regardless, then understand what you are buying. You are purchasing A SEAT ON THE PLANE - not a guaranteed window, aisle, front of plane, exit row, extra leg room and not even guaranteed to be next to the person you are traveling with.

 

[maxiesmom]

OP--When you purchase tickets on Air Tran you are given the option of paying for seat assignments. If you are flying on Air Tran soon and haven't purchased seat assignments, you can still go back and do so.

There is no law requiring airlines to seat children with their parents. If someone chooses not to pay, then they are in essence saying saving the money is more important that sitting with their family. Which is not necessarily wrong! However it is wrong to not pay for seats and then expect others to move around so that you can sit with your family. Or have a fit because the airline didn't seat you together.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't agree with airline policies of putting people into the position of having to pay extra to get seats together with their family, but it might be the solution some people will need to take.

If the charge for seat selection were assessed only from people who want/need to get seats next to their families, I might agree. But it's not. Most airlines that offer the option to pay for seat selection in advance charge any customer for any reason.

When/if you stop charging this group, you're discriminating the remaining passengers.