Scooter issues again

[bavaria]

I think our children will benifit the most.

Sadly from a decade of reading here I don't think that the next generation will learn to be more compassionate or considerate towards others than the current generations.

I am still an optimist and hope that this website doesn't represent the greater public however.

 

[scuba]

Um, how do you expect the woman with the "injured" (use of quotation marks around this word are equally objectionable to the earlier, entirely uncompassionate use of the word BOO-BOO, which it replaced - both indicate skepticism and sarcasm) to get the wheelchair on the bus? Even if she could lift it up to the entrance level at the front of the bus, since the buses all provide access for Guests using wheels, why SHOULD she use the front door when the ramp works better for her? Plus, entering up the ramp, she wasn't putting unnecessary/additional pressure on her injured ankle - as she would have been if she'd had to STEP UP INTO the bus from a different level.

By sitting at the front of the bus, she didn't have to move out of a seat that might then be needed by a Guest using an ECV.

Ok Kaydie, i'm not going to worry too much about what quotation marks means, again you are reading too much into the post, when I'm sarcastic it usually jumps right out without the use of subtle quotation marks. Her wheelchair takes up as much room as me folding up 2 strollers and me having backpacks and diaperbags and jackets and coats and balloons and sippy cups. I look like a sherpa and was hauling much more than she was on that day...using your rational I should have used the bigger door in the rear.

 

[scuba]

Sadly from a decade of reading here I don't think that the next generation will learn to be more compassionate or considerate towards others than the current generations.

I am still an optimist and hope that this website doesn't represent the greater public however.

Again, you have no idea what i'm like in person and certainly you have No right in bringing My children into a discussion like this. You apparently got the wrong assumption that I somehow are wanting to isolate my children from ECV riders? WRONG, renting a car will allow us to travel to parks on our timetable, sleep in car seats on the way back to the resort, and NOT have to stand up when a seat is not available on a bus. There is the ease of packing extra supplies, charging a cell phone in the car while we are inside a park, running purchased merchandise back to the car.........again, this kinda remarks are not helpful

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Well if we can make this visit with one another come to light you will have to let us know about yourself, Our children have been known to hug strangers, I certainly don't want my children hurting you.

I've got a big mouth as you might've notice on here. Besides that; my body, my responsibility. Physical interaction to some extend is the norm in our world today. Others can't 'smell' that it can be painfull for me, nor would I expect them to.

I'm afraid I've done a very poor job representing myself and my frustrations. maybe disliked worse than the evil Dark queen herself. I'm afraid that some of you have this horific impression of me that I know to be wrong.

You haven't been your own best friend I think, no. But then again, that's the way these topics can end up really fast. And as said, both sides have had some of that.

Discussions like this lack the human side and facial expressions and real tone. I have been accused of using tone which seems funny to me because tone is a measurement of sound. Little words here and there like Boo Boo and Gimping my be imflammatory to some but are real common words used in the ER. Discussions like this are best in person.

These things are all very personal. As I've learned; don't use any words like these when talking about touchy subjects and not being able to see a persons face and see how they take it. For instance, I do find '****oo' a word that is too easily interpretated as 'faking it!', but gimping not. The person next to me might see it totally the other way. Heck, I've got a wheelchair that is called spazz. Apparently not a word taken too well in the UK. Oops.

It's ok really it is that I started the thread out emotional, maybe even mad.

for seeing that. Most wouldn't, let alone admit to it.

it's what happens later that counts....ask kaydieelder, he/she and I went round and round on a topic for days, as it turned out the solution was whats best for her/his family is different from mine and it was left at that, so despite what some think about men being un-teachable, some of us can and do learn.

It's not about being male. Isn't that nice? Grin. It's about judging a book, and all of us have sensitive spots when it comes to that.

I'm not in this to offend, not my intention, it appears as though I did and I regret that, and I hope a few can foregive me But i'm certainly not going to apoligize to anyone after feeling my family was...........well, it wasn't the best situation for my family and we corrected it by taking a different bus at a different stop. I contend that it will be best for everyone involved for us to rent a car next time. I think our children will benifit the most.

If the car is the best for your family; go for it! You might want to especially do so for rope drop and park closure and the madhouse at the bus stops. I wouldn't totally shy away from the busses because of one bad experience though. These things can happen. Not OK, understandable you weren't particularly smiling about it, but definately not the norm. And thus nothing to shy away from the busses for, IMHO.

 

[Sleepy]

I contend that it will be best for everyone involved for us to rent a car next time. I think our children will benifit the most.

If I took small children to WDW, I would definitely drive to the parks. We have used both WDW busses and have driven to the parks. You would think the busses would be more convenient, but in reality, the car is faster and less of a hassle.....that is if you don't wait till the parks close to hit the parking lot trams. It would take a lot of your stress away and the kids would be more comfortable in their car seats and you and your wife would not be balancing everything.

 

[scuba]

Then what's the point of posting about it on a "discussion" board? Discussion boards are for discussing, not pontificating.

You'd be better served by getting a position as an entry level Cast Member. With diligence, and hard work over many years, you stand a chance of being promoted to a position of authority within the company so that you could change the policy. Of course, if you did so, you'd put the company in danger of running afoul of a variety of laws in a variety of ways, at which point TWDC's General Counsel's office will tell you that you can't do what you'd like to do.

So, feel free to remain unconvinced. It is, as of now, still a free country. But, your lack of convincedness is about all that will come of it.

Once again, someone using a quote I typed at page 1, since then i've learned quite a bit. I still have to add i'm still around, still in the discussion. My initial sarcasm has only been rivaled by the sarcasm i've recieved since......I suppose what sleepy said is true, you get what you give. But still 2 wrongs don't make a right.......

 

[Sugardimples]

I think that lots of times people don't fully realize what it's like to be dependent on public transit. And the buses at WDW are a form of public transit.

I often watch parents with toddlers, strollers, lots of gear struggling to use this mode of transportation and think how much happier they would be if they had their own vehicle. But if you choose to not have your own vehicle then you have to deal with the inconveniences that go along with (yes, I'll say it again) public transit.

You can't count on being comfortable with public transit. Just ask anyone who rides a subway or bus in their everyday life.

 

[bavaria]

Once again, someone using a quote I typed at page 1, since then i've learned quite a bit. I still have to add i'm still around, still in the discussion. My initial sarcasm has only been rivaled by the sarcasm i've recieved since......I suppose what sleepy said is true, you get what you give. But still 2 wrongs don't make a right.......

People reacted to what you posted; I don't see sarcasm or unkindness in how people have responded to you.

still have to add i'm still around, still in the discussion

You managed to work up a lot of people on a lot of different boards here today.

Perhaps it is time for me to heed the advice that I have received from other readers and stop adding to the length of this thread.

It is obvious that what I say will not have any positive impact but perhaps some other reader has learned from what we said today.

 

[scuba]

If I took small children to WDW, I would definitely drive to the parks. We have used both WDW busses and have driven to the parks. You would think the busses would be more convenient, but in reality, the car is faster and less of a hassle.....that is if you don't wait till the parks close to hit the parking lot trams. It would take a lot of your stress away and the kids would be more comfortable in their car seats and you and your wife would not be balancing everything.

Nice post, we most definately will rent next time.

I see your signature includes Naples, Italy Been there about a half dozen times......We lived in Brindisi, Italy...father was stationed at San Vito, Her was a 22 year career Air Force......I might not have represented myself well, however I do have a very special place for military members. I happen to believe that US service folks are protecting my daughters lives everytime they go to bed at night. I look back at the thread and i'm really not the person that has been defined, But i'm afraid that that is the risk on takes on a message board.

 

[scuba]

People reacted to what you posted; I don't see sarcasm or unkindness in how people have responded to you.

You managed to work up a lot of people on a lot of different boards here today.

Perhaps it is time for me to heed the advice that I have received from other readers and stop adding to the length of this thread.

It is obvious that what I say will not have any positive impact but perhaps some other reader has learned from what we said today.

You don't see sarcasm, implying that MY children are going to grow up somehow worse or not any better than the current generation....wow, bringing my children into a discussion, someone implying i'm an inept ER Nurse......

 

[goofy4tink]

Well, well, well..how did I know this thread was going to go this way!!! But, it does seem that you are all actually trying to get along...and that's really appreciated by yours truly.
I think we can all agree that there is abuse of ECV/wheelchairs. I get it. But, there is little that can be done to regulate human behaviour in regards to stuff like this. It is illegal to ask for proof of disability....so anyone that wants to use a wheelchair or ECV can. Period.
I can come up with several instances where you might think the person using one is 'working the system'. Again, my dad, at 83, has inner ear issues. It makes him look drunk, especially when he gets tired. Walking any kind of distance is a huge no-no...especially after his lung cancer surgery last fall. But, because of his way of thinking, he just doesn't give in. He would be the one pushing the empty wheelchair..."I'm not sickm, I don't need this darned thing!!" would be his battle cry.
My daugher-in-law suffers horribly from fibromylagia....I spend the day with them in Dec..and she was a hurting puppy after walking around for a few hours. The cold didn't help much either. I know my ds is talking about getting her some kind of 'transport' when they return.
Both these people would look perfectly fine to the onlooker. But they both have reasons, and good ones at that, for using some kind of scooter or wheelchair. It has nothing to do with 'working the system'.

Yes, there will always be those who cheat. And we can only hope that karma comes back to bite them in their collective butts...not that I am wishing harm on anyone.

But....here's the thing. Everyone here, on these boards, gets that there is abuse. They all know that there can be, at any time, ECVs/wheelchairs waiting to board the same bus they want to be on....either at the resort end or the park end. It may be a better idea for some families to rent a car..especially if they have a lot of stuff with them.
I know that I have, personally, been more negatively impacted by those with strollers than those in ECVs. And that has been in the parks as well as on the buses. Man...there are some people that lug huge strollers onto the buses and take up a huge amount of space. I have seen parents put the strollers up on the seats and then get nasty when someone has asked for the stroller to be removed so they might sit down. I have seen dads refuse to move to the rear of the bus with the stroller, where there is more room. But they don't want to be far from their family..not sure why that's an issue..they're getting off at the same stop.
I have been rammed by strollers in the parks. I have had bloodied ankles and shins from strollers being pushed at warp speed....one woman rammed me, gave me a dirty look when I yelped in pain and then said..."Weeeellll, excuse me, but we need to get to our meal ontime. Do you mind moving??" Really??

But I have had pretty much the same experience with ECVs....beep, beep, coming through, please move for me..beep beep. I kid you not. I don't move.

There is rudeness everywhere. We seem to be a society of 'you first, right after me'. Not sure where common decency and good manners have gone, but they are seldom seen anymore. It seems to be all about the 'do you know how money we spent to be here??', 'We are entitled to just about whatever we want.', 'This is our kids one and only trip to WDW..they deserve to have it all'...seem to be the mentalities that are rampant nowadays.

Can we please put ourselves in someone else's shoes, just for a moment? I would so much rather give someone the benefit of the doubt and feel badly for them, than to assume they are cheating the system somehow and get all nudgy about it. I just don't have the time to do that. I'm in WDW and gosh darn it, I want my magic just as much as the next person.


So...let's all share a nice old group hug........awww, doesn't that feel better?? Who said there's no pixiedust here on the Transportation board!! Oh, that was me...sorry. Keep hugging....!!

 

[Brian Noble]

I don't see sarcasm or unkindness in how people have responded to you.

No, I'll admit it. I was being a little sarcastic.

But, let's examine the record, shall we? All in one day, Scuba

* came to the transportation board to rant about scooters
* the DVC board just to say that DVC doesn't work out for the scuba family
* the DCL board to point out everything that was wrong with their cruise
* the theme park board to brag about taking flash pictures

And lord knows what else.

Remember folks: don't feed 'em, or they'll just keep coming back.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Well, well, well..how did I know this thread was going to go this way!!! But, it does seem that you are all actually trying to get along...and that's really appreciated by yours truly.

Reading your post, I was thinking this needs a certain response.

Then I read the rest of your post, and lo and behold;

Who said there's no pixiedust here on the Transportation board!! Oh, that was me...sorry. Keep hugging....!!

You stole the line I was planning on using!

 

[Sleepy]

We seem to be a society of 'you first, right after me'.

I have never heard that before.

 

[scuba]

I'm going to leave you with this. it's late, my DD2 is sleeping, DD4 nearly asleep. Me standing with 2 stollers and countless support items for a family of 4. doors close and driver just nearly getting into his chair when someone taps on the front door of the bus and a ECV loading process is initiated. "MY" family, not yours but my family is displaced and now left standing. Looking over my shoulder I see my Wife with an arm around a pole, Daghter in her arms. Below me is my 4 year old holding on to my leg, me holding on to a pole with a pinky finger. bags falling down from my shoulder. Just minutes before we were sitting, albet in the special reserved folding seats. Looking towards the ECV, straped securely to the tiedowns and their familiy members, someone had given up their seat and now what appeared to be an able bodied adult was sitting, while my Wife was holding on to a pole and my daughter holding on to my leg, we got off at the next stop..........If you cannot see why I was frustrated then i'm not the one you should be worried about.

@goofie, I would applaud meeting with you and discussing all of this, maybe you can see i'm really not the person that has played out on this thread. Apparently a few have looked at several other posts and threads I've been apart of, only 1 poster has acknowleged this trip was not real magical for us and has maybe given us a pass and acknowleged that maybe, just maybe I've had a bad day...I thank them for that............Eric

 

[Tara922c]

You know there is always going to be a few bad seeds that make everyone in a scooter/wheel chair at wdw look bad. My friend's mother frequents disney often (my friend works for the mouse), and she uses a wheelchair. She looks 100% healthy because she eats right, and excercises as much as she can. However, she has MS. She can walk, but she can't walk long distances. She cannot climb the stairs to the bus, and it takes a lot of effort for her to get out of her wheelchair, and move to a regular seat, so she rides the busses with her wheelchair fastened. She said she would give anything to be able to walk all day at Disney, and get on a bus without all the mean glares she gets almost every time.

Being said. If a person is using a wheelchair because the are lazy, well that would make me mad. If they are in one becuase they truly need it, they can have my seat. And this is coming from a mother of a sleeping 2 year old on the busses late at night.

 

[Sleepy]

If you cannot see why I was frustrated then i'm not the one you should be worried about.

I say this with sincerity, because I feel I do understand what you are getting at. I definitely see why you are frustrated, having the kids, strollers, etc. Bottom line, the ECV took up your seats. Had the last minute passengers been walking/standing people, this would have never been an issue, because you would have kept your seats. Be upset with the driver for not following proper procedure, causing you inconvenience. Leave the ECV user out of it.

 

[scuba]

No, I'll admit it. I was being a little sarcastic.

But, let's examine the record, shall we? All in one day, Scuba

* came to the transportation board to rant about scooters
* the DVC board just to say that DVC doesn't work out for the scuba family
* the DCL board to point out everything that was wrong with their cruise
* the theme park board to brag about taking flash pictures

And lord knows what else.

Remember folks: don't feed 'em, or they'll just keep coming back.

This is a classic example of hearing about the negative, had the trip went the way I have come to expect from Disney then you wouldn't hear from me......

Let's play the game and examine the record.

1.) late arriving scooter displaced my family from a bus, I've tried to describe my position, no one seems to care that my family was placed in an unsafe position with standing parents and children holding on for dear life. We got off at the next stop. Plan to rent a car next October, and I have an invite to spend some time with someone that needs an EVC
2.) We listened to the DVC presentation, found out it wasn't for us but we see the value the plan offers, actually we have recieved several pleasant PM from folks willing to sell their Key West timeshare, we were inaccurately informed by a DVC member that there was no Key west ptoperties available.
3.) Our 3 day Disney cruise didn't knock our socks off, unlike this thread many folks have repeated our sediment, we have been encouraged to try the longer cruises, we plan to. I pointed out that the entertainment and child care programs were top notch, service was great, but hardly what I would have expected from disney, again several folks agreed, no controversy here as of yet. We missed CC because of the weather, act of God, It happens but I wasn't at the pursers desk demanding Captain Gus try again or ram the ship into a wall. We didn't want some sort of a reiembursement for a missed port
4.) The flash photography rule, guideline, commandment, still remains very unclear. From cast member to cast member you will get different answers. A Pro camera in the hands of a pro photographer like my wife and the pictures you can get are amazing. We take Flash photos in the absence of other guests, in front of or behind, Tuesday the 9th we were the only family on the boat, hardly bragging. She switches her Nike D-200 to no Flash if someone is on the ride with us.

lastly after 260 or so posts, I typically stick around to defend my position and not troll. My choice of words have been off, I've misrepresented myself and I truely regret that, but please remember this, this last trip, was far short of magical.......hopefully none of you life in glass houses.

 

[scuba]

I say this with sincerity, because I feel I do understand what you are getting at. I definitely see why you are frustrated, having the kids, strollers, etc. Bottom line, the ECV took up your seats. Had the last minute passengers been walking/standing people, this would have never been an issue, because you would have kept your seats. Be upset with the driver for not following proper procedure, causing you inconvenience. Leave the ECV user out of it.

I get it, it just occured to me....thank you, I think I get it now

My frustration was misdirected. I really have goosebumps...can a guy say goosebumps? It wasn't the ECV rider that asked my family to get up, it was the driver. The driver could have called and asked when the next bus would be around....the ECV and family didn't "Force" themselves on the bus.......wow, I feel like such an @#%$

 

[seashoreCM]

>>> ...displaced my family from a bus...

(Some hypothetical embellishment added, Ph.D.'s in English and logic and transportation engineering plus a J.D. needed to understand it all)

So you are nicely settled in a seat, admitteldy the fold up seat to be exact and the bus driver has closed the door and is ready to go when someone knocks on the door. The driver opens the door again and finds he has to either commence the wheelchair loading procedure or close the door on that party and take off.

The driver walks around the outside of the bus to the open back door and asks you and a few others to disembark so he has more maneuvering room.After one of the party helps get the wheelchair aboard and strapped down, the remaining 18 members of that party rush through the rear door leaving no room for you to climb back aboard.

Now what?

Do you, apparently dumbfounded but knowing well what you are doing climb halfway into the bus (or maybe you can get all the way in but not behind the white line) expecting the driver with the same definitiveness asking you to step out ask those who rushed and cut ahead of you to step out instead to let you back on?

Does the driver announce that he will remain there until the next bus arrives to let you on board, expecting in the back of his mind that someone else, hopefully one of those who boarded last and took up the last bit of space, to volunteer to get off?

Would Disney issue each one of your party two extra use-anywhere-use-anytime fastpasses, one for the wait for the next bus and one for the effort it takes to make this request?

I am all in favor of splitting a family one of whose members is in a wheelchair and not all can fit on the bus. They in turn can choose to all wait for the next bus although splitting up will sometimes get them to their destination sooner and never get them to their destinations later compared with not splitting up, for example the next bus has all the wheelchair positions taken.

That said, I have often gotten off a crowded bus or streetcar back door to help others get off, but remained positioned to be able to get back on. More than once I heard the driver announce over the PA system "Those entering the back door please come forward to pay your fare". which I of course ignored.

>>> ... (I) saw the same person pushing the empty wheelchair ...

If I rent a wheelchair I can ride a little of the time, some of the time, most of the time, or all of the time. If I don't rent a wheelchair, I have to walk all off the time. Meanwhile if I am not riding in it I either have to enlist someone else in my party to push it or carry it or I have to push it or carry it myself.

>>> ... rammed me ... meal on time ...

(Instead of saying "copied from another post", I'll let you go there to #6 yourself)
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2394305

Maybe situations like this wouldn't happen so much if Disney exercised more flexibility.