Schwartzenegger denies clemency for Tookie Williams

[Tigger_Magic]

Humanity. Not his, ours.

Again, it's too bad Williams chose to ignore humanity when he committed his crimes.

I see it as a balancing act between humanity and justice. In the end, one has to determine what wins out. Fortunately for humanity, in this case, justice weighed more heavily.

 

[richiebaseball]

I am all for the death sentance as opposed to criminals sitting on death row for eyars wasting tax dollers.

There are certainly many studies that indicate that a death sentence costs more due to years of appeals and all the costs associated with them. Attorney's and court costs don't come cheap.

 

[richiebaseball]

Again, it's too bad Williams chose to ignore humanity when he committed his crimes.

I see it as a balancing act between humanity and justice. In the end, one has to determine what wins out. Fortunately for humanity, in this case, justice weighed more heavily.

And how can life in prison without possibility of parole not be seen as justice?

Can society's problems really be solved by murder? Even when the murder is legal and state sanctioned?

 

[Skylarr29]

Even if they were sentenced to life they could still appeal many times and do the same thing incuring attorney fees etc.

 

[#1MMFan]

Romans 13 clearly points out that the state has the right to punish the wrongdoing (crimes) committed by citizens.

Original quote: -
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


Interesting, but I don't see it saying an agent of wrath to bring death on the wrongdoer. And I refer you to my previous posts: are tyrannists and despots also rulers put in place by God that we must submit to their authority?
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[Patch'sD]

He got what he had coming to him. He took four lives directly and indirectly so many more from the violent gang he created.

 

[#1MMFan]

Tigger Magic:
Originally Posted by Tigger_Magic
You need to look back at the original Greek word that is translated "judge" to determine what is meant in this passage. The Greek word is "krino". According to Strong's Concordance, the word's usage It seems clear to me that this passage does not authorize Christians to pass judgment on other people, especially in determining who is "saved" vs. who is "lost." That is my primary complaint with 2funny2c... their attempt to play "God" on this thread.


So hang on, are you saying that we can't judge, but we can condemn and execute? I just caught this comment of yours on another thread. Interesting double-standard going on.

 

[richiebaseball]

Even if they were sentenced to life they could still appeal many times and do the same thing incuring attorney fees etc.

I don't think so. Appeals aren't that common in life sentences. Especially the type of appeals that are related to capital punuishment.

But I would certainly be glad to look at any studies or data that suggest otherwise.

 

[chyam]

He murdered innocent people. I say he deserves what he gets. I'm sure the family of the victims feel that way also.

Totally agree......I am sure that the books may have helped some kids, but it didn't help the other families get their loved ones back, I am only sorry that it took 24 years to finally execute him. Personally when there is clear cut evidence that a person is guilty of murdering, raping, or attempting murder they all should be executed! And I say Clear Cut evidence, especially in this day in age where DNA is so easy to do now or video taped evidence, or personal witnessing. I have no mercy for some of those animals and I don't feel that I should be paying to help house, and feed them, I would much rather have the money going to help truely needy and "good" people or educating our children. Rehibilitation does not bring back another persons life that truely did not deserve to be murdered! This man started a gang that had gone on to kill many many people. Maybe God can forgive him.

 

[#1MMFan]

Totally agree......Personally when there is clear cut evidence that a person is guilty of murdering, raping, or attempting murder they all should be executed! .

You think that when a person is guilty of rape without murder they should be executed? Does that not even go beyond eye for an eye? More like head for an eye. A little extreme I would have thought.

 

[jgmklmhem]

You think that when a person is guilty of rape without murder they should be executed? Does that not even go beyond eye for an eye? More like head for an eye. A little extreme I would have thought.

I have spoken to many rape victims that have said they have been robbed of their very soul/life etc due to the rape. The personal emotional trauma to them is worse than if they had been killed.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

There are certainly many studies that indicate that a death sentence costs more due to years of appeals and all the costs associated with them. Attorney's and court costs don't come cheap.

Well, at 12:35 a.m. this morning all those costs ended for Tookie Williams.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

And how can life in prison without possibility of parole not be seen as justice?

Can society's problems really be solved by murder? Even when the murder is legal and state sanctioned?

The state executing a convicted felon for having deliberately killed 4 people is not murder, unless you're wanting to rewrite Webster's definition of murder.

The death penalty is not a solution for anything... it is purely and simply a punishment.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Interesting, but I don't see it saying an agent of wrath to bring death on the wrongdoer. And I refer you to my previous posts: are tyrannists and despots also rulers put in place by God that we must submit to their authority?

If you choose not to see it, nothing I can say will change your vision. Not to veer this further off-track, but I believe all gov't. are allowed by God, not necessarily "put in place by God." Should you wish to continue that digression, we should probably start a new thread.

 

[richiebaseball]

Well, at 12:35 a.m. this morning all those costs ended for Tookie Williams.

Yes they did. And I can imagine all the high-fives by some. Sad, isn't it?

 

[vivilasvegas]

Yes they did. And I can imagine all the high-fives by some. Sad, isn't it?

Sad and pathetic. For or against the death penalty, no one should celebrate the ending of a life.

 

[arminnie]

I would choose yes, but simply because I believe that no one should be given the death penalty. I'm not convinced he is rehabilitated, however, I don't think anyone should be executed for moral and other reasons.

Thank you for your honesty. You did not try to justify clemency based on innocence or rehabilitation - you just stated that the death penalty was not part of your belief system.

 

[richiebaseball]

The state executing a convicted felon for having deliberately killed 4 people is not murder, unless you're wanting to rewrite Webster's definition of murder.

The death penalty is not a solution for anything... it is purely and simply a punishment.

Ah, the unmistakable message that human life no longer deserves respect when it is useful to take it and that homicide is legitimate when deemed justified by pragmatic concerns.

 

[Free4Life11]

And I say Clear Cut evidence, especially in this day in age where DNA is so easy to do now or video taped evidence, or personal witnessing.

I agree with the first two. But personaly witness is about as NOT clear cut as you can get! Ask 100 people what you saw and you'll probably get many variations. Witnesses lie, witnesses forget, witnesses can be swayed, etc.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Tigger Magic:
Originally Posted by Tigger_Magic
You need to look back at the original Greek word that is translated "judge" to determine what is meant in this passage. The Greek word is "krino". According to Strong's Concordance, the word's usage It seems clear to me that this passage does not authorize Christians to pass judgment on other people, especially in determining who is "saved" vs. who is "lost." That is my primary complaint with 2funny2c... their attempt to play "God" on this thread.


So hang on, are you saying that we can't judge, but we can condemn and execute? I just caught this comment of yours on another thread. Interesting double-standard going on.

How cute! Take a quote completely out of context and then suggest a double-standard.