Schwartzenegger denies clemency for Tookie Williams

Should Tookie Williams be spared?

  • Yes, he's rehabilitated

  • No, he's unrepentant and not remorseful

  • Don't know


Results are only viewable after voting.
#1MMFan said:
I am glad there are a lot of people in this world that are happy to put their name to someone else's death. Eye for an eye... I thought God alone had the right to take life. I didn't think 2 wrongs actually made a right. The poor victims don't suddenly come back to life when the murderer is executed. The grief doesn't suddenly stop.

Actually you quote God when you say an eye for an eye, then use his name again when you say it's suppose to only God can determine when it's the time to end a life.

Dig into that Bible a little bit more and you'd see that God feels murderers and rapist should be executed. I'm personally not using God to make my point, just pointing out the inconsistencies with your response.
 
I think the worst thing is that he sat on death row for 24 years. We need to change the system that lets this happen. I'll bet his victims would have liked to live another 24 years. In MHO that is his clemency, he got to live for 26 years after he commited his crimes.

I really think we need to either execute people within 5 years of their conviction or just put them away for life. Had Tookie been sentenced to life I don't think anybody would have paid any attention to him. He's gotten a much better life than he deserves.
 
N.Bailey said:
Actually you quote God when you say an eye for an eye, then use his name again when you say it's suppose to only God can determine when it's the time to end a life.

Dig into that Bible a little bit more and you'd see that God feels murderers and rapist should be executed. I'm personally not using God to make my point, just pointing out the inconsistencies with your response.

No inconsistencies in my post. Where did He say that YOU should be the one to execute said murderers or rapists? Please go on and quote. I'm curious.
 
It would be an injustice to the jurors and court system if he was granted clemency.
 

While I think it is a heartening thing that he has done some good will imprisoned, it doesn't change the facts of what he did those many years ago.

 
#1MMFan said:
No inconsistencies in my post. Where did He say that YOU should be the one to execute said murderers or rapists? Please go on and quote. I'm curious.

I don't want to make this a religious topic, but you might want to start here:

Genesis 9:6
Exodus 21
Exod. 22; Lev. 20; Deut 18-19 for other things than murder
Romans 13:1-7
 
Free4Life11 said:
People, lawyers, judges and jury make mistakes all the time. If there are no checks and balances it will only be a matter of time before and innocent person is put to death, if it hasn't already happened. One innocent man in Illinois came within days of his executive. It took a class of COLLEGE STUDENTS to determine he was innocent.

I have not followed the Tookie Williams matter enough to really comment on it, but I do not agree with the death penalty. I live in Illinois and anyone who is interested in learning more about the flaws in the death penalty system should visit the website for the Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern Law School(http://www.law.northwestern.edu/wrongfulconvictions/). Pretty scary stuff if you ask me.
 
N.Bailey said:
I don't want to make this a religious topic, but you might want to start here:

Genesis 9:6
Exodus 21
Exod. 22; Lev. 20; Deut 18-19 for other things than murder
Romans 13:1-7

I'm interested you feel qualified to judge others. I don't think I'd personally be comfortable on this. I say let the Almighty decide. I mean the ultimate judgement comes when we die, and we all die. Why do we have to expedite it and prevent people having the opportunity to repent/reform. (How ironic, in the context of the original post). Is everyone not entitled to forgiveness, or is there a passage in the Bible that excludes specific people? And if we are going to expedite things, why then have people sitting on death row for years waiting on their execution?

PS. I just checked out your last quotation from Romans in my New Testament and Psalms and although it mentions submitting to authority, it does not mention specifically giving the authorities the power to kill people. I'm sure God did not choose to put Tyrranists and despots in power in some countries. Should the people of those countries submit to their authority, lest they be killed?
 
How much $$$ to maintain this skank for 24 years? Waste of money. That's what's wrong with our system. We got old people that are hungry and can't pay for their meds and skank like Tookie tucked away, gettin' 3 squares and a cot. Gimme a break....
 
Free4Life11 said:
People, lawyers, judges and jury make mistakes all the time. If there are no checks and balances it will only be a matter of time before and innocent person is put to death, if it hasn't already happened. One innocent man in Illinois came within days of his executive. It took a class of COLLEGE STUDENTS to determine he was innocent.
The man had 26 years and numerous people, including very good lawyers working pro bono, trying to prove his innocence. In all that time not one tiny bit of evidence was presented that would cause a single court to decide to overturn his conviction or order a new trial or set aside his death sentence. That is very telling to me. I would think that after 26 years if there were any evidence of his innocence in these crimes it would have been found.
 
Rafiki Rafiki Rafiki said:
As a society, we use execution to deter violence, but it doesn't accomplish that goal. No one who kills another person is thinking he or she may lose his life for it when committing the crime...especially when drugs are involved.
Society doesn't use execution to deter violence. Society uses execution as punishment. There is no deterrence factor involved with the death penalty.
I think Tookie needs to be given the grace of another 10 years to undo the devestation he has caused to inner-city teens and young adults everywhere. All those who want him alive can work with him to alleviate the violence. At the end of the 10 years, let society decide. If he's fixed it, let him live. If he hasn't, let his followers inject the solution.
:rotfl2: He's had 26 years to undo what he wrought and all he did was pander to the state for clemency by writing a few books, which until now have largely gone unnoticed. I find it telling that there were no stories of how he became a model prisoner, how he never used intimidation on guards or other inmates, how he renounced his gang affiliation, how he used his knowledge to help prevent the growth of gangs, etc. Another 10 years? Give me a break. He had more than sufficient time to do what you suggest and the time for the injection was long, long overdue.
 
N.Bailey said:
I don't want to make this a religious topic, but you might want to start here:

Genesis 9:6
Exodus 21
Exod. 22; Lev. 20; Deut 18-19 for other things than murder
Romans 13:1-7

Sorry, I forgot to mention in my last post the following quotation. Seems you overlooked the passage just prior to Romans 13:1-7 - Commencing at Romans 12:17...

"Do not repay anyone evil for evil." ... AND... "Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay' says the Lord."
 
#1MMFan said:
Sorry, I forgot to mention in my last post the following quotation. Seems you overlooked the passage just prior to Romans 13:1-7 - Commencing at Romans 12:17...

"Do not repay anyone evil for evil." ... AND... "Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay' says the Lord."
Romans 13 clearly points out that the state has the right to punish the wrongdoing (crimes) committed by citizens.
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
 
i think clemency should have been granted, but i am anti-death penalty in all cases, so it's a fairly easy decision for me.
 
caitycaity said:
i think clemency should have been granted, but i am anti-death penalty in all cases, so it's a fairly easy decision for me.
Just curious... what would justify clemency in this case?
 
Tigger_Magic said:
Just curious... what would justify clemency in this case?

The fact that the death penalty should not be a choice of humans....
 
TnKrBeLlA012 said:
He murdered innocent people. I say he deserves what he gets. I'm sure the family of the victims feel that way also.
I know I do!
 
cats7494 said:
The fact that the death penalty should not be a choice of humans....
I don't see this as a fact, more of an opinion. And it's too bad Tookie Williams didn't believe that... otherwise, his victims might still be alive today.
 
I think he deserved what he got. I dont think he was rehabilitated or ever could be. I am all for the death sentance as opposed to criminals sitting on death row for eyars wasting tax dollers.
 


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