school vent

[spoon full of sugar]

OK this is my sons first year in middle school. His school is for the academically advanced and gifted. The curriculum is extemely tough, just the notes they have to keep every day blow anything I did in college away . That is fine, he knew that was what he was signing up for, it was what he wanted and what all he's teachers recommended. My problem is that on top of the unbelievable work load, the teachers assign stupid make work, his history teacher told me this, it's not just my opinion. She said they give this work out so that the not so bright students can bring their grades up with this duh work that they can handle.(there is no repeating a grade in this school, if you can't maintain a C averege you get kicked out) So after spending months on his science project (which quite frankly, I don't understand) that required a trip to the attic for my husbands college physics textbooks and uncounted hours of an 11 year old boy wrestling with Newton's Laws of Motion I found out that his beautiful A that he's been working so hard for ( and that has taken him away from the rest of the family for the past 2 1/2 months every weekend) has been brought down to a lowly B because he didn't do some of the stupid makework. What was this oh so important work that was worth 50, that's right 50 points? CUT AND PASTE!#$&*!That's right folks! My son works for hours on a project that requires ACTUAL intelligence and the students who can barely manage scissors are handed a grade increase on a silver platter. Now I can hear all you saying, why didn't ds do this Oh! So! Important! cut and paste project? Well because he had due the same week= his science project with 37 page long project paper and project board and oral report, his journalism project with 10 page research paper and oral report, his literature project with 5 page research paper and research project and oral report, and the beginnings of his history project, all of which, except the project board and of course the obligatory oral report, is due before xmas. He still had his usual two-four hours of homework and the nine weeks testing which can count for up to half your grade! So, yes, he was a very bad boy and let the cut and paste slip under his radar, since, as he said, it was just stupid make work, it wouldn't actually TEACH you anything and how could he know it was worth 50 points? Most of his tests are worth 50 points! He put more time, effort and actual INTELLIGENCE into the REAL WORK of HIS project and the kids who watched a bean growing in a pot on their window sill, and therefore had LOTS of extra time to do the all important cut and paste will be getting grades equivalent or better than my son. I'm sure all you Clinton liberals will be just thrilled with this, but it really burns me up. Ayn Rand knew what she was talking about all those years ago. The bright and innovative are eventually just going to give up trying to play by these pc, lets make everyone equal rules and leave all the cut and pasters and their supporters to rot in the absurd world they're creating for themselves. Moderator, this may be a bit much for the family boards, if you wish, you can move it to the community board.

 

[pweyl36]

May be it's not the school for your son? Just my opinion.Also,maybe he's just not that ready for that type of school.

 

[Mom to Jordan]

I agree that this might not be the best school for you. We have the AIG program within our school but we choose not to put DS into the program. The work load just consumes the children and he needs time for his other interest such as scouts and sports. I really want him to be a well rounded person. I really worry about burn out with these kids. I would really look at what he wants. Was he upset with the B? Does he feel over welmed? As you said, he is only 11!

Jordan's mom

 

[In a hurry]

Wow, maybe you should take a few deep cleansing breaths. The educational system has it's issues, but bringing politics into this particular one seems kind of wierd. It seems to me it isn't just the Dems or the Reps that are screwing it up.

It is just a grade, and he is just 11. He has many years to learn to do all of his work and expect some of it to be stupid. I don't know any job that doesn't contain a bit of both. As others have said, maybe you all are in the wrong space/place.

You seem to be awfully invested in his work. Why not just let him be and show him an example of a calm, reasonable parent dealing with a disapointing issue, instead of a parent blaming the rest of the world for their problem?

 

[sara74]

I found out that his beautiful A that he's been working so hard for ( and that has taken him away from the rest of the family for the past 2 1/2 months every weekend) has been brought down to a lowly B because he didn't do some of the stupid makework. What was this oh so important work that was worth 50, that's right 50 points? CUT AND PASTE!#$&*!That's right folks! My son works for hours on a project that requires ACTUAL intelligence and the students who can barely manage scissors are handed a grade increase on a silver platter.

Is the real point of education being lost here? Did DS still gain the knowledge from working on the project or was the only goal of all this work the bright shiny A?

Now I can hear all you saying, why didn't ds do this Oh! So! Important! cut and paste project? Well because he had due the same week= his science project with 37 page long project paper and project board and oral report, his journalism project with 10 page research paper and oral report, his literature project with 5 page research paper and research project and oral report, and the beginnings of his history project, all of which, except the project board and of course the obligatory oral report, is due before xmas. He still had his usual two-four hours of homework and the nine weeks testing which can count for up to half your grade!

Sounds like a bit much for the boy. The gifted programs that I participated in were challenging without being overly stressful. They fostered a love of learning so that I wasn't burned out by the time I hit high school.

I'm sure all you Clinton liberals will be just thrilled with this, but it really burns me up. Ayn Rand knew what she was talking about all those years ago. The bright and innovative are eventually just going to give up trying to play by these pc, lets make everyone equal rules and leave all the cut and pasters and their supporters to rot in the absurd world they're creating for themselves.

Not real sure what politics have to do with this aspect of parenting. We all want the best for our child. Showing seething rage and disrespect for the school you chose to put your child in doesn't really seem like his best interest. What exactly are YOU teaching him in all of this? If the system is so bad - then you could always homeschool, many do. Although, if I read correctly you don't seem up to the academics the way that your son is.

I'd rather my own (very bright ) children not end up 'rotting' either - and I know that 'the system' can stink, but isn't the point of education the learning itself, not the letter grade? Do you really think when DS is up for the Nobel Prize this B will matter?

 

[djm99]

DH teaches at a gifted middle school. He admits that the work load can be overwhelming to some. Usually those that it is overwhelming for - often don't need to be in that kind of setting (the gifted setting). DH's school also has "C+" average policy. If they can't "cut" it - they go somewhere else. IMO, its okay, if a child can't "handle" a gifted setting. IMO, I agree with the poster that stated that being well-rounded is more important. Also, those students that are in gifted schools and well-rounded have super parents. Those parents almost have to surround their lives around those children. Projects, parents, and tons of homework is the norm for gifted schools. It is a task for parents too. Also, as a parent of a gifted child too - I've learned that I have to double check my childs homework/class work daily to make sure she completes it. I too spend at least 1 - 2 hours three days a week working with my daughter - and she is only 5 years old!!! She “tested out” of kindergarten and headed straight to the 1st grade. She is learning 2 foreign languages (Spanish and Arabic). Almost every night she is writing and rewriting Arabic letters/sounds and comparing them with both English and Spanish (if applicable). I knew that when we decided to put her in that school.

During weeks that her grades were low - it was almost always because I wasn't double checking her. Now the OP's son is twice as old as my 5 year old - and should be twice as responsible - but as a parent of an 11 year old - in a gifted setting there should not be a week that goes by and you as the parent not know EXACTLY where your child stands. I walk in my daughter’s school – EVERYDAY to pick her up and ask daily, “how was J today!”

 

[disneymom3]

I can understand your frustration. I always hated those stupid mindless activities in school too. and honestly decided that DD shouldn't have to waste 12years of her life doing meaningless tasks that someone else needs to do to get the point. (Or just to earn points) It is irritating, but really it's not all about the grade, did your son enjoy and learn from these other projects?

 

[grlpwrd]

OK this is my sons first year in middle school. His school is for the academically advanced and gifted. The curriculum is extemely tough, just the notes they have to keep every day blow anything I did in college away . That is fine, he knew that was what he was signing up for, it was what he wanted and what all he's teachers recommended. My problem is that on top of the unbelievable work load, the teachers assign stupid make work, his history teacher told me this, it's not just my opinion. She said they give this work out so that the not so bright students can bring their grades up with this duh work that they can handle.(there is no repeating a grade in this school, if you can't maintain a C averege you get kicked out) So after spending months on his science project (which quite frankly, I don't understand) that required a trip to the attic for my husbands college physics textbooks and uncounted hours of an 11 year old boy wrestling with Newton's Laws of Motion I found out that his beautiful A that he's been working so hard for ( and that has taken him away from the rest of the family for the past 2 1/2 months every weekend) has been brought down to a lowly B because he didn't do some of the stupid makework. What was this oh so important work that was worth 50, that's right 50 points? CUT AND PASTE!#$&*!That's right folks! My son works for hours on a project that requires ACTUAL intelligence and the students who can barely manage scissors are handed a grade increase on a silver platter. Now I can hear all you saying, why didn't ds do this Oh! So! Important! cut and paste project? Well because he had due the same week= his science project with 37 page long project paper and project board and oral report, his journalism project with 10 page research paper and oral report, his literature project with 5 page research paper and research project and oral report, and the beginnings of his history project, all of which, except the project board and of course the obligatory oral report, is due before xmas. He still had his usual two-four hours of homework and the nine weeks testing which can count for up to half your grade! So, yes, he was a very bad boy and let the cut and paste slip under his radar, since, as he said, it was just stupid make work, it wouldn't actually TEACH you anything and how could he know it was worth 50 points? Most of his tests are worth 50 points! He put more time, effort and actual INTELLIGENCE into the REAL WORK of HIS project and the kids who watched a bean growing in a pot on their window sill, and therefore had LOTS of extra time to do the all important cut and paste will be getting grades equivalent or better than my son. I'm sure all you Clinton liberals will be just thrilled with this, but it really burns me up. Ayn Rand knew what she was talking about all those years ago. The bright and innovative are eventually just going to give up trying to play by these pc, lets make everyone equal rules and leave all the cut and pasters and their supporters to rot in the absurd world they're creating for themselves. Moderator, this may be a bit much for the family boards, if you wish, you can move it to the community board.

I can empathize how you feel as my kids all are in special programs, too, but knowing that in your case you all knew going in that the curriculum was tough and that he knew what he signed up for then I don't see why you are so disgruntled plus you even put down people. What's up with that? They didn't do anything to your son. It was your son that didn't do the work even if it was simple work.

I don't understand why you have to make statements like

My son works for hours on a project that requires ACTUAL intelligence and the students who can barely manage scissors are handed a grade increase on a silver platter.

He put more time, effort and actual INTELLIGENCE into the REAL WORK of HIS project and the kids who watched a bean growing in a pot on their window sill, and therefore had LOTS of extra time to do the all important cut and paste will be getting grades equivalent or better than my son. I'm sure all you Clinton liberals will be just thrilled with this, but it really burns me up. Ayn Rand knew what she was talking about all those years ago.

Yes, I sense such seething rage and disrespect, too. Why? Well, it may seem unfair, but that is life.

It was your son's choice to choose his science project (right?), not complete the 50 point work, and not allocate enough time for everything. Perhaps use this opportunity as a learning experience to teach him time management and not lay blame on others.

 

[Del]

I'm sorry but I just don't see how this situation relates to WDW......


Del

 

[spoon full of sugar]

Thanks for all the replies, the supportive ones as well as the not so much ones. Yes, I was very upset, but I think seething rage is a bit of an overstatement?! Also, I didn't say any of this to my ds, just told him that it was his responsibility and he dropped the ball this time, do better next time. I would never say anything to undermine the authority of his teachers in front of him, not so much for their benefit, as for his. Last semester he had a teacher fail to record 17 of his assignments, he tried to talk to her about it, but she just blew him off. My dh wrote her several emails, she responded that she knew what was going on in her classroom thank you very much. After he got his report card which of course reflected the missing grades, we had a conference with her, brought in all the missing assignments which SHE had GRADED and DATE STAMPED. She didn't even apologize! Acted like we were wasting her time! It was such an imposition for her to have to change his grade to what he had earned! So my ds already has trust issues with one teacher, I wouldn't want to reinforce that in any way. As to why I was so upset about the missing assignment, as I stated I was told by another teacher that they have a policy if many of their students are doing poolry at the end of the grading period, they will give out a make work assignment that is designed SOLELY to bring up their numbers. It doesn't teach anything, it is given out so that the bad students don't bring the school average down and cut into their funding. Is it my ds's resposibility that he missed an assignment? YES!!!! Is it ETHICALLY right that a teacher would have students cut pictures out of a magazine, glue them to a piece of notebook paper, and then give this "assignment" as many points as a chapter test is worth, just to make her "numbers" look better on paper? NO!!!! If this was given the usual amount of points little extra credit assignments like this are, 3 -10 points, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it wasn't. It was created ONLY to bring up her grade average, and many of the better students who were to busy doing challenging work didn't bother with this, thinking it wasn't worth their time ( not knowing it was worth 50 points since that isn't usual). If you think about it, you do this every day, you can't do everything, you have to pick your battles , my ds picked his and lost . BUT he won the war . He found out today that the grade average he had been given didn't include his science project, so he will be getting his A, an A+ in fact .

 

[noodleknitter]

So all of that negative energy was for nothing. What a waste.

 

[Mom to Jordan]

Sounds like you just need a friend to vent to. Glad you did not share this with your son. Hope that you feel better but will still continue to evaluate whether this is the best place for your son. Sometimes being a parent is SO hard, Good luck!

Jordan's mom

 

[crisi]

Learning to do "make work" is a very important part of life. I'm pretty well employed, and I just spent six hours on Wednesday reparsing some data (copy and paste, look something up manually, add it to a cell on the worksheet - really, not challenging). Its a fact of life for everyone - one of the VPs I work for does it too.

Life isn't about what you know. I know a lot of really bright people that haven't been able to hold "real jobs." Life is also about following through, following directions, and doing what your boss tells you to do. People who aren't geniuses who manage the second part ususually do better than the Mensa members that don't. Perhaps its because I'm a liberal, or perhaps its because I've worked too often for bright people who can't follow through or won't do work that is "beneath them," but I'm really glad your son is getting a chance to learn this at eleven.

 

[T-i-double-g-err]

Learning to do "make work" is a very important part of life. I'm pretty well employed, and I just spent six hours on Wednesday reparsing some data (copy and paste, look something up manually, add it to a cell on the worksheet - really, not challenging). Its a fact of life for everyone - one of the VPs I work for does it too.

Life isn't about what you know. I know a lot of really bright people that haven't been able to hold "real jobs." Life is also about following through, following directions, and doing what your boss tells you to do. People who aren't geniuses who manage the second part ususually do better than the Mensa members that don't. Perhaps its because I'm a liberal, or perhaps its because I've worked too often for bright people who can't follow through or won't do work that is "beneath them," but I'm really glad your son is getting a chance to learn this at eleven.

I fully agree with this sentiment.

[WARNING ABOUT TO GET ON A SOAP-BOX.]
In practice, you cannot ignore the dull, ho-hum tasks and just focus on the exciting and challenging. In my mind, that's the quickest way to get fired, or lose your company if its your own business. As a small business owner, my company would collapse if my partner and I failed to do the dull day-to-day acivities required to keep our doors open. In addition to the day-to-day activities, not all the work we do for our clients is always exciting and challenging, but it still has to get done. I don't necessarilly condone make-work without purpose, but in the larger context, that work was assigned by a teacher and, therefore, requires attention. My business does not have employees, but if it did, I would expect them to complete assigned tasks whether or not they were interesting or challenging. It's a question of personal responsibility for work assigned to you not a question of what you are capable of doing. So you can put this into perspective, I make these statements as an overly educated someone with two MS degrees, a PhD and a JD, and having passed through the "gifted and talented" programs in public school many a year ago.

Further, I don't believe that this is a political issue that neatly falls in line with liberal or conservative trends. I don't consider myself either as my views differ dramatically on an issue-by-issue basis. How you pose the issue is also relevant.
1) The teachers at the school are assigning make work to the students in order to create a PC environment to homoginize the educational process. Grading should not depend upon such rote make work assigned simply to allow students having difficulties with the more challenging assigned work.
2) The teachers at the school are assigning make work so the students are adequately prepared when they enter the work force to discharge all tasks assigned to them no matter how menial. Receiving an A requires that the student perform exceptionally in all tasks assigned.

I would suggest that either statement could be attributed to the situation you described. I also would suggest that either could be ascribed to a "conservative" mind set.

Mandatory Fine Print Disclaimer I am an attorney after all...
Please remember that these are simply my opinions. I will not begrudge the OP or anyone else from having a different perspective on this.
[STEPPING OFF THE SOAP-BOX]

Of course, if I had stayed a computer scientist rather than a college professor and an attorney for a number of years, I probably would have left it at my original sentence and saved everyone from my soap-box...

 

[spoon full of sugar]

I really don't get you people. I have read threads on here were the op is whining that the school wants to kick her kid out because he is hitting and biting other people, She actually said something like, little johnny has sharing issues and the teacher saw susie take his book but she still blamed him when he knocked susie on her behind, and you all ran to her rescue. Poor op, that lousy school, how dare they say your little angel isn't perfect! Yes what I wrote was a VENT, it wasn't meant to be a logical look at the situation, just how I felt about it. And I learned how you all felt about my feelings, makes me wonder if your children are the ones benefiting from those extra points? Not a word about how this practice of giving an art project the same validity as a real assignment in a SCIENCE class just to boost the schools ratings and grab more MONEY is completely UNETHICAL. Just nastiness from the nasty, and, maybe you should reevaluate the school choice, from those trying to be helpful. To set the record straight, I didn't want him to go to this school, HE did, and his teachers from elementary did. I didn't even want him to apply for the gifted program, mainly becuase when I was in it, many years ago, it was one of those hippy run programs were you "paced yourself", don't have your homework? "Hey Man, that's cool, only YOU know where YOU need to be right now, RIGHT?" Wow! Was college a shock to all us previliged "gifted" kids! I think some of my classmates are STILL living with their parents! Anyway, ds grades are fine, from that a+ in science to a 101% in journalism. His teachers at this school seem to think this is where he belongs, and that he's doing fine. Also, for the well rounded advocates out there,ds has been in the scouts since tiger cubs, he earned the arrow of light last year. He does soccer and chess club with the school, basketball and lasertag on his own time (and mine ),takes care of three cats, two dogs, and whatever frogspawn,injured lizard, or stray cat, dog, hedgehog, manticore, whatever that "follows" him home . This morning he saved a bird from a neihborhood cat before I'd had my cuppa tea. He also rescues/collects people, I can't keep track of all his friends, and his favorite person in the world (other than family) is my friend B, who is a 60 year old self taught artist, they always have their heads stuck together over one project or another. Oh, and he builds "stuff", machines that really work made from old bits of motors and things he finds in the garage (and the trash ) , whole towns from corrugated cardboard. . So ds may be a bit of a dork, but he is VERY well rounded, well liked, and happy. Thanks for asking.

 

[sara74]

In practice, you cannot ignore the dull, ho-hum tasks and just focus on the exciting and challenging. In my mind, that's the quickest way to get fired, or lose your company if its your own business. I don't necessarilly condone make-work without purpose, but in the larger context, that work was assigned by a teacher and, therefore, requires attention. It's a question of personal responsibility for work assigned to you not a question of what you are capable of doing.

Fully agree with the above. There is plenty of makework in my profession too, and I'm a dentist. The makework is writing patients' charts, prescriptions and the other paperwork to communicate with the rest of their healthcare professionals. May be dull, but I'd have a heck of a time explaining that to the lawyers and the judge if, God forbid, something were to go wrong!

Further, I don't believe that this is a political issue that neatly falls in line with liberal or conservative trends.

Agree again, the OP's comment on politics seemed to have no purpose other than to create controversy.

To the OP - Glad all turned out as you wanted. Sorry you didn't feel like you were seething. I guess you are more expressive than some.

 

[robinb]

As to why I was so upset about the missing assignment, as I stated I was told by another teacher that they have a policy if many of their students are doing poolry at the end of the grading period, they will give out a make work assignment that is designed SOLELY to bring up their numbers. It doesn't teach anything, it is given out so that the bad students don't bring the school average down and cut into their funding.

Welcome to the world of "Charter Schools".

 

[spoon full of sugar]

crisi and t-i-double-g-er I agree with what you posted. Hadn't seen it when I posted last. As I said, I told ds this was your responsibility, so learn from the experience. My problem with it was that this assignment was given only to raise the school numbers so the school could get more money. Money is the only reason, period, I've had several teachers tell me this. It was also a case of changing the rules in mid-game, this type of work isn't usually given those kind of points, as professional people, you know you can't get everthing done and have a life, sometimes you let the little things slip through the cracks, but what happens when keeping your paper clips tidy all the sudden was considered as important as a project you had been working a month on? And, nobody bothered to tell you the new rule? Basically, because tidy paper clips weren't the reason, but having the bosses nephew look as good as you on paper for the board of directors was. THINK about it, THAT'S what this really boils down to. Yes, life is unfair and I tell ds that he has to learn to deal with people and situations that are illogical. But, that sounded pretty hollow to me, when I was looking at his little crestfallen face yesterday morning. So, since everyone I knew was on their way to work, or still sleeping, I came on here and said the first things that came to mind,and from my aching heart. They weren't completely rational, and some of it wasn't really fair, but that doesn't invalidate my feelings and I was quite surprised that most of the responses I got were so negative, it makes me think I hit many people close to the bone. One last thing, they do give out dull work and ds does it, he doesn't think he only has to do the things that intrest him, if that were the case he wouldn't bother to show up to literature or journalism class .

 

[crisi]

Unfortunately, that is also the real world. We don't always do what makes sense, we often do what we need to do for short term gain. More money for the school is good for your son. I'm not sure if its a charter school or not, but many of these schools and special programs live on the edge in terms of funding. It actually sounds to me like the school may have stretched these kids a little far - an eleven year old needing a college physics textbook to complete an assignment is stretching even the brightest eleven year olds - and now that grades are coming around they are looking around saying "they won't fund us next year if only 20 students can do this work, better find a way to bring up the average!" I think its great that your son has the opportunity to work in a challenging environment, and you are really lucky to have it, warts and all. It would be really great if we had unlimited resources for our schools, but we don't, and administrators compete for the pool of resources that there is. And often we need to get BOTH the really important project and the make work done, and sometimes that does mean doing a 98% job on the really important project and throwing the mere 2% of effort at the make work thing to get it off our to do list. That, too, is a skill that your son will benefit from developing, the ability to say "an A is an A, and it doesn't make any difference if I get an A with a 94 or an A with 100." Sometimes the difference in effort in getting that 100 in Biology means getting a C+ in that make work, have to take it, liberal arts course where if you'd just put forth the effort it took to get a 100 instead of a 94 to the liberal arts class, that could have been an easy A.

 

[sara74]

Not a word about how this practice of giving an art project the same validity as a real assignment in a SCIENCE class just to boost the schools ratings and grab more MONEY is completely UNETHICAL.

I believe educators would call this 'interdisciplinary studies' - and from my limited understanding it is a widely accepted practice.

Just nastiness from the nasty!

Like begets like. I know this was originally put out there as a vent, but the unnecessary political attacks and the attacks on the responding posters children like,

makes me wonder if your children are the ones benefiting from those extra points?

are what made me feel less sympathetic. No need to bring politics or other people's kids into this. BTW, mine are just fine too. PreK at 3 years old, reading and writing. I'm sure she'll benefit from all those extra points someday to keep her GPA up. Thanks for asking.