School now banning all "out of term" holiday leave

[luke]

And anyone with half a brain would realised that noone claimed they did. Furthermore, anyone with half a brain will realise that if the AVERAGE wage for the proffesion is ~30K then a significant number of teachers must be on or approaching that figure. (either that or there is 1 bloke at the top earning 4billion PA)

I like it!

In all fairness, I've got no bother with you refering to how much teachers get.
I'm about 3 or 4 years away from getting that 30k average, but don't forget that average is pushed up by 'London weighting' where teacher's start on much more

Like I said tho, I'm pretty sure there's not been any teachers here moaning about poor holidays, and the only issue is you're insistance that we only work 39 weeks a year. For example I was in work every day last week despite it being school holidays (Ok, it was by my choice, but there were a fair few teachers in too).

At least you're not being as inflamitory as you were the other day tho.

For the record, I do however think you're still a troll, having had a quick glanse through your previous postings (us teachers have far too much time on our hands ) and seeing the kind of stuff you post on on what topics - all classic trolling style.

If not, I apologise, and fully agree with Kenny (Pegasus) earlier, this can be a good thread with people on 'both sides' (although I don't really see the need for there even to be sides) giving reasoned and polite arguements.

Happy Easter to y'all anywho

 

[melly]

I like it!

In all fairness, I've got no bother with you refering to how much teachers get.
I'm about 3 or 4 years away from getting that 30k average, but don't forget that average is pushed up by 'London weighting' where teacher's start on much more

Like I said tho, I'm pretty sure there's not been any teachers here moaning about poor holidays, and the only issue is you're insistance that we only work 39 weeks a year. For example I was in work every day last week despite it being school holidays (Ok, it was by my choice, but there were a fair few teachers in too).

At least you're not being as inflamitory as you were the other day tho.

For the record, I do however think you're still a troll, having had a quick glanse through your previous postings (us teachers have far too much time on our hands ) and seeing the kind of stuff you post on on what topics - all classic trolling style.

If not, I apologise, and fully agree with Kenny (Pegasus) earlier, this can be a good thread with people on 'both sides' (although I don't really see the need for there even to be sides) giving reasoned and polite arguements.

Happy Easter to y'all anywho

At least someone on here can have a bit of banter. Others seem to think that they can judge us parents who take their kids out of school but when the tables are turned and the judgers become the judgees they dont like it.

 

[luke]

At least someone on here can have a bit of banter. Others seem to think that they can judge us parents who take their kids out of school but when the tables are turned and the judgers become the judgees they dont like it.

I actually think that the odd people here who were against kids being out in school holidays on this thread were non-teachers

As I said before, my main reason against it is probably jealousy

But then my teaching salary did buy me a rocket car and a solid gold house

 

[melly]

But then my teaching salary did buy me a rocket car and a solid gold house

Which you can enjoy on your 315 days off per year

 

[luke]

Which you can enjoy on your 315 days off per year

Tis a tough job but someone has to do it

 

[stephensmum]

Banters good, but we are discussing our personal opinions on if children should be allowed to go on holiday in term time & not generalising about teachers. I would like to see this thread remain open so please remain on topic.

 

[mickeyforpresident]

so then technically your actual hourly wage is nearly 20% higher than your (larger than average) yealy salary appears to be

Oh my!!

Well, I guess that if we were paid for 52 weeks per year, our salary would be higher, yeah.

The salary is set by Government - please don't say we don't deserve it. I'm not moaning as I love my job and feel honest pride in what I do. But - I get to work most days at around 8am, rarely have a lunch hour, stay in school until 6pm (until 8/9pm on days I have governors meetings/parents evening/plays etc). I work most days until 10pm at home. I work most of Sundays. I think i deserve the money I earn.

And interesting - when I was a probationer teacher, I worked out that I earned about 75p per hour (in my first year!!) It was many, many years ago.

Wayne - think it needs to close now!

 

[melly]

Oh my!!

Well, I guess that if we were paid for 52 weeks per year, our salary would be higher, yeah.

The salary is set by Government - please don't say we don't deserve it

feel free to point out where anyone has stated that you dont deserve your pay. As for the yearly salary thing of course you arent paid for 52 weeks because you dont do it . The point was that someone complained about being paid for 39 weeks oblvious to the fact that the average teachers wage is above the national average even though the time in work ismuch less.

 

[Kath2003]

I'm utterly confused by all this given that all the teachers here have said that we appreciate that holiday is a GREAT perk of our job and that we support both parents and schools in making the decisions each feel is best for the children in their care?

I don't remember 'blating' about pay - in fact, I don't even remember pay being particularly mentioned in this thread?

Melly - I think you need to chill out a little bit.

£30K would be nice, though... A teacher on £30K has to have been in the profession for more than 5 full academic years or have taken on some additional responsibility. A HUGE proportion of teachers leave before the beginning of their second year (18% of those who make it into the profession; 40% of trained teachers never actually enter) so I'm guessing that despite the "above average" salary and the (admittedly fantastic) holiday allowance, teaching isn't worth it for some...

 

[howlongtillsummer?]

I think you dealt with that exceptionally well guys. Again.

 

[Lizzybear]

I have mixed views on all this. I work with 1-2 year olds in a charity-run nursery and 20-30k a year would only be possible if I went into management which would mean less time with the kids. I'm a graduate and have considered doing the PGCE more than a few times but ultimately I love working with the under fives and I have faith that workers in the early years sector will one day get the pay and recognition that teachers do like in other European countries, things are changing albeit slowly I have friends who are teachers and have worked as a teaching assistant and I have to say that while many teachers are 110% committed and go above and beyond the job role (one of my best friends is a full-time nursery teacher but also acting foundation stage manager, stays after school finishes most nights teaching English to some of the parents AND is doing a masters!) but others I know/have worked with leave when the kids do and not a minute later, look down their nose at TAs (though I had a better grasp of the EYFS than this particular teacher ), sit the kids in front of DVDs for most of the end of term weeks etc. As with any profession you get the good and the bad!

 

[UKDEB]

As with any profession you get the good and the bad!

Aint that the truth.

 

[angel659]

These threads always make me laugh. Everytime the topic changes into an arguement, regardless if it is banter or not. Everytime the thread is hijacked from the op's question and into who agrees or not.

How about we offer some good advice and get off our soap box.

 

[leemel]

I think one of the problems with parents being told when they can take their children out of school is the arbitrary nature that councils can close schools for use as Polling stations, that INSET days are taken during term time rather than as part of the breaks. That coupled with the almost arbitrary nature of the closures that occurred over the recent cold spells i.e. schools less than a mile from each other, one open, one closed, both under the same LEA, with conditions to get to each equally as bad.
My daughters school have been very good, as long as she catches up or does the work before she goes, they don't have a problem.

 

[melly]

I think one of the problems with parents being told when they can take their children out of school is the arbitrary nature that councils can close schools for use as Polling stations, that INSET days are taken during term time rather than as part of the breaks. That coupled with the almost arbitrary nature of the closures that occurred over the recent cold spells i.e. schools less than a mile from each other, one open, one closed, both under the same LEA, with conditions to get to each equally as bad.
m.

Correct.

For some reason if a parent takes their kid out of school it is seen as a cataclysmic disaster even though the time out is a fraction of the total schooling time. Strangely days wasted by the school allegedly don't have as big of an effect

 

[2Tiggies]

Correct.

For some reason if a parent takes their kid out of school it is seen as a cataclysmic disaster even though the time out is a fraction of the total schooling time. Strangely days wasted by the school allegedly don't have as big of an effect

I think most people agree on this point. Again however, it is the Education Authority, not the teachers. The approach does vary widely from one school to the other. DD's school is really good I believe. I have only taken her out once for a few days and she is never absent, however many parents take their kids out regularly and for a fair chunk of time and I assume that this speaks to a fairly lenient attitude. A lot depends on the head teacher. A certain amount of leeway is given for them to apply "practical common sense" in respect of a decsion to grant or deny absence. A greater degree of the regulations are imposed by the authorities - and these are the ones that are often completely illogical. A teacher does not have the authority to grant absences. Whether it is practical to offer support for missed work is another story and those who are able to do so, do so as a great favour to both the parent and the child.

What needs to be borne in mind is that while frustration and anger at illogical and inconsistent regulations can cause plenty of outrage, it is important to attack the source of the problem. Just trying to keep things in perspective.

 

[Cyrano]

I think most people agree on this point. Again however, it is the Education Authority, not the teachers. The approach does vary widely from one school to the other.

I always think it is interesting the way an Education Authority and Schools are talked of as separate bodies. Employees in both will have the same council badge. Just as the road sweeper will have as those employed in the Transporation Service.

Most mangers/directors in Education will come from a teaching background so are still teachers.

 

[Scrap_Vamp]

I always thing it is interesting the way an Education Authority and Schools are talked of as separate bodies. Employees in both will have the same council badge. Just as the road sweeper will have as those employed in the Transporation Service.

Most mangers/directors in Education will come from a teaching background so are still teachers.

While that may be the case, the point that was being made is that the teachers in individual schools should not be blamed for these things - we are on the bottom rung of the ladder and have no say at all!

At the school where I work, despite being a large comprehensive, we serve a whole network of remote villages. Most of the children travel to school by bus. This means that if the buses don't run to the villages, over 70% of our children wouldn't be in school! This also means they don't get half days at the end of terms, though In addition, teachers don't necessarily teach where they live. I am a 15 minute car ride away from my school on main roads, and would have gone in during the snow as my route was clear. However, the decision was made for me by the Head, who closed the school. A further factor influencing this decision was that a lot of our site is on steep hills, and there are health and safety implications. We were only closed fully for two days, in the end, whereas other schools more local to me were closed for at least 4.

Anyway, this is waaaaay off-topic, but I think the point is that teachers are politely requesting that you don't blame those of us on the ground for decisions that are out of our hands

 

[2Tiggies]

While that may be the case, the point that was being made is that the teachers in individual schools should not be blamed for these things - we are on the bottom rung of the ladder and have no say at all!

Yes, that was exactly the point I was trying to make. Apologies for any confusion if it didn't come across clearly. All I was trying to say was that whiile I think many of the rules and policies are somewhat ridiculous, blaming the teachers for rules made higher up in the line of authority is like blaming the cleaner in a steakhouse because your steak is overcooked.

Anyway, this is waaaaay off-topic, but I think the point is that teachers are politely requesting that you don't blame those of us on the ground for decisions that are out of our hands

I think that is fair.

 

[Scrap_Vamp]

Yes, that was exactly the point I was trying to make. Apologies for any confusion if it didn't come across clearly. All I was trying to say was that whiile I think many of the rules and policies are somewhat ridiculous, blaming the teachers for rules made higher up in the line of authority is like blaming the cleaner in a steakhouse because your steak is overcooked.

You came across very clearly - I was just confused by Reid's analogy that, as managers in the LEA might once have been teachers, therefore they are still teachers - it seemed that he was using this argument to justify blaming the teachers

I think your post was very fair as well