School excuse wording

[nytimez]

Wow. I just read the last 3 pages of that thread you linked, and boy you weren't kidding about it turning nasty in a hurry!

That's why I always take the under on these threads...

 

[pilferk]

That's why I always take the under on these threads...

2nd safest best on the disboards.

Safest is the under on reusing mugs, though.

 

[Wadecool]

2nd safest best on the disboards.

Safest is the under on reusing mugs, though.

You could insert several guaranteed winners in there (big kids in strollers, pool hopping, monorail resort parking, etc)

 

[pilferk]

You could insert several guaranteed winners in there (big kids in strollers, pool hopping, monorail resort parking, etc)

I've never seen the "big kids in strollers" threads...I can only imagine.

The only reason that pool hopping and monorail resort parking threads aren't "surer" (they're 3 and 4, respectively) is because there are limited times when those practices are allowed/accepted. DVC members can pool hop (and there are threads about it) and there are times when "non-controversial" questions get asked about parking at the resorts (parking for a meal, parking to resort peek, etc).

They ARE all pretty safe "under" bets, though.

 

[Dizneefamily+4]

I'm not picking back at you but what are we considering "stay after school" time? Teachers should be available for time with the students after the bell rings each day. If my son has to take a test due to being out sick he is out by 3:30/3:45, his bell rings at 3:05. I wouldn't consider that after school hours. Helping students make up work should really be part of a teacher's job and they should expect it because if it isn't a child missing for vacation, it is a child missing because they are sick, a death in the family or a child who needs help with their work. This time should be planned and expected.

The bell rings for my dh teacher at 2:48. We live 10 minutes from school. He gets home at 4:00 or later every night because in addition to his additional duties required by his contract and the school, he is in his room helping students. The morning bell is at 7:25. My dh is there at 6:30 every morning - again, helping students. After OUR kids go to bed at 8 pm., my dh is up grading papers for another couple of hours. Is it part of his job to help students who are ill, out for medical reasons, funerals, etc? ABSOLUTELY. Should he have to take ADDITIONAL time out of his day to help YOUR kids make up work because they were on a trip to WDW or Jamaica? ABSOLUTELY NOT. But he does it anyway. And deserves respect.
One other thing I want to mention is that teachers take time off too during the school year. My son, who is a junior in high school, tells me all the time about his teachers being out during the school year for vacation or for personal reasons. During these times he has to deal with substitutes who don't have a clue and no real school work is given out or getting done. My son is a straight A AP student who will have at least a year of college under his belt by the time he graduates high school. Even so, when his teachers aren't there it puts him behind as everything is crammed into the next day after they return...then he is spending extra hours doing homework because the teacher wasn't at work teaching class. This interrupts our family time at home...did the teacher think of that before hand?

My dh, on the rare occasions he is out (he's been teaching for 15 years and has taken a total of 3 sick days and 10 personal days - actually 1/2 days- for our kids' kindergarten graduations, spring and christmas programs), gives entire lesson plans to his subs. On the few planned days he's missed, he stays late or goes in at 5 am to prep for his sub. His subs are all certified teachers - and if he only has to miss a few hours, the other math teachers, on their preps, take his class. His class is being taught, and nothing gets "crammed in" to make up for his absence.We accept that this is just part of it...teachers are people too, they get sick and have a life outside of work, earn time that they can use during the school year and when they do we just have to work around it.

I do not make a habit of pulling my child out of school, his education is important to us. I value the effort that most of my son's teachers have made over the years, especially one or two great teachers. But I do expect the school administration and the teachers to let my child make up his work either before hand or after if he missed school for a valid reason and is within school policy. I do understand that there may be special circumstances where a child would not be excused (the child is failing, has excessive absences, etc.).

One thing that everyone should understand is that most people do not work in the school system. Most people do not have extended time during the summer months to take their vacation!! It is a hardship for us to take off in the summer months. I chose my career and accept what my current employer expects and the limitations it puts on me. If it becomes a problem for me I will change jobs. But for now when we do get time to take off to spend with each other you bet my child will be there with me whether it is during school or not.

Folks should try to be understanding of other people and their situations and keep in mind not everyone has the same schedule as the school system and other people have demanding jobs as well. It's not all about being irresponsible and pulling a child out of school "just because".

Our children are only young once and we should enjoy every minute of it!!!!

That depends on what the teacher's contract is. Our contracts (at least mine) have always had defined contracted times. Staying in the building after that time is uncompensated and should not, imo, be "expected" by parents.



This sounds good in theory, and IME the contracted end time is usually 30 min to an hour after the students leave. However, just because the bell rings at 3:05 doesn't mean a teacher is immediately available to begin helping a student that moment. IME, I have always had duties to perform when that bell rings - whether it is hall duty, bus duty, or any of a few other duties. Also IME, those duties take 15-20 minutes, depending on how long it takes for buses to arrive, load, and clear out. So expecting a makeup test or extra help to be able to be completed within 30-45 minutes of the bell ringing isn't always possible.

Am I saying teachers shouldn't stay after? no, I'm not. But yes, that time IS after school hours and is generally assigned to other required duties. Being appreciative and recognizing that, as opposed to expecting it and demanding it, is only respectful IMO.



That may be the case in your son's school - that doesn't mean it is everywhere. As a certified teacher who has subbed a lot, I have always been given "real" lesson plans to adhere to and "real" classwork to give out. Yes, even at the HS level. As a teacher, on the rare occasion that I am out of the classroom, I leave "real" lesson plans for the sub to follow, and do whatever I can to get a sub in my room who is certified to teach in my subject area. I realize this too is just my personal experience, I'm just saying i wouldn't write off all teachers as giving busy work (or no work) just because of your experience.



The assumption that because teachers don't have students in the summer that that means they're on vacation, or able to vacation is just that - an assumption. So many people here mention that they can't travel at certain times (say, summer) because of their spouse's job. OK - well teachers have spouses too. What if the teacher's spouse can't travel in the summer because of their job? Should the family be forced to travel without one spouse in order to vacation?

This isn't even mentioning that many teachers have to have secondary jobs in the summer in order to continue paying their bills and so, no, may not actually have that time "off." Or they may be taking classes in the summer (and therefore also not able to vacation) in order to maintain their teaching certification. Many teachers also lesson plan/develop curriculum in the summer for the upcoming year. All I'm trying to point out is that just because school lets out doesn't mean that teachers are lying around the house all summer with nothing to do.



Yes, yes they should....both parents and teachers alike.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

OK...please excuse the following rant but I gotta do it:

[rant]
I don't mind the debate...when the original poster asks "should I/shouldn't I". I get that, and it's a hot topic. My response is usually "We do it. Do what you think is best for your family and what your school board can live with. Ignore everyone else's opinions." And for those looking for a sly aside....yes, I would include my own on the subject, no matter what paradox that creates.

But when, as in your thread, they DON'T ask that question...but ask for specific, helpful advice (in other words, the decision has already been made) on SPECIFIC things related to doing so...then, IMHO, you either provide helpful feedback or you don't. You answer the question that was asked, or you don't. The decision has already been made, it's obvious what the OP's decision is....there's not useful purpose to debate it.

Just because there's a tangent to be gone on, questioning the decision that's already been made, doesn't mean it SHOULD be gone on. If someone REALLY feels the need to debate "should you/shouldn't you" either create a thread to do that, or find one of the (very few) on the subject that exist and haven't been closed.

But what ends up happening is people run roughshod over the thread and what helpful info may have been there either gets drowned out...or those with slightly thinner skins, who have helpful info but don't want to enter the fray, DON"T POST. The cacophany effectively silences a good portion of posters.

The ultimate problem is: The current "tangent" tends to quell the discussion of the topic brought up by the OP. It silences a lot of voices, drowns out a lot of others, and generally isn't helpful to the OP. And it gets threads locked.

[/rant]

My question/rant is always, "Isn't WDW just as educational in the summer than it is in the fall or winter?" I don't care if you take your kids out of school or not (we've done it numerous times ourselves), but just don't try to sell me on that a week in WDW is more educational than a week in school as so many have tried in the past.

I guess if you need an educational excuse in order to make the trip itself and have excused vs unexcused absences, that's fine to make something up to appease the school. I just get tired of those who insist that they must take a trip in the off-season because it's so educational or is good family time. Aren't the educational and family time experiences available year-round?

We used to take our kids out for trips all the time. Unfortunately, we can no longer do that, but we enjoyed it while it lasted. I have no issues whatsoever with someone pulling kids out of school. I think it's a great way to save money, enjoy smaller crowds and often get better weather. And some people have no choice but to go when school is in session due to their jobs. But please don't try to tell me that WDW is educational and that you have to pull your kids out for the educational experiences that they can't get in school. Or worse yet, say that those who don't believe this think that the only education can happen is in school. We find ways to educate our kids 365 days a year whether it's at home or at WDW. But we also know that trips to WDW are mostly about having fun as a family. Why not get the best of both worlds and take your kids when school's not in session in order to enhance their educational experience beyond what they learned during the school year? Again, if you simply have to have the excuse for your school district, that's fine.

I think the OP in this thread got enough wording for an excuse pages ago, so it appears that this thread is now just another thread on the merits of taking kids out of school for educational purposes.

My point on the current tangent is to be honest - you're taking kids out to save money, enjoy lower crowd levels, hopefully have better weather or perhaps your job doesn't allow you to go when school is session. The educational part will always be there no manner when you go.

 

[ccgirl]

Just curious...for those that use the my life, my kids, my choice thing....

Why don't you homeschool? If you don't homeschool abide by the regulations that were set forth. You are no better than others and agree to abide by the rules when you enroll your children.

If you truly want to do whatever you want then homeschool. For some reason, you enrolled that child in the school. I presume to learn?? In that case, let the teachers do their jobs. I get so frustrated by the parents that continually pull their children out because it is "their right". Yet, when their child gets back they are behind and keep interrupting the teacher and preventing her from progressing. What about the other children that did not miss school? What about their rights. They should not be penalized for someone else's vacation.

Abide by the handbook. If you don't want to, enroll them in another school or homeschool them.

 

[stargazertechie]

I get so frustrated by the parents that continually pull their children out because it is "their right". Yet, when their child gets back they are behind and keep interrupting the teacher and preventing her from progressing. What about the other children that did not miss school? What about their rights. They should not be penalized for someone else's vacation.

From K-2, I learned absolutely nothing new. While my classmates were enjoying Dr. Seuss, I was reading the same books my friends in 4th and 5th grade were reading. I entered kindergarten knowing addition and subtraction, and mastered multiplication and division half way through first grade.

I sat in the classroom, bored to tears because I was ahead of other students intellectually. Was I being penalized for someone else's stupidity just because they were still stuck on "A is for Apple?" No.

Just because you pull your kid out for a week doesn't mean they'll come back behind and become a problem for their classmates. It's all about knowing YOUR CHILD and what they are capable of.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Yet, when their child gets back they are behind and keep interrupting the teacher and preventing her from progressing. What about the other children that did not miss school? What about their rights. They should not be penalized for someone else's vacation.

.

I dunno -

If you follow that logic then anyone that takes a vacation anytime is infringing someone else's rights.

Anyone in a sevice based business (like teaching) has to expect to have to work around the vacations of their clients. Sometimes this creates headaches but that's just the way it goes.

Attorney's are are a great example, e.g. many work until midnight to meet a client deadline because that client is on vacation next week and needs the contract now.

I think the difference with some teachers is they may forget who it is that is paying them, and who their clients are.

 

[pilferk]

My question/rant is always, "Isn't WDW just as educational in the summer than it is in the fall or winter?" I don't care if you take your kids out of school or not (we've done it numerous times ourselves), but just don't try to sell me on that a week in WDW is more educational than a week in school as so many have tried in the past.

I guess if you need an educational excuse in order to make the trip itself and have excused vs unexcused absences, that's fine to make something up to appease the school. I just get tired of those who insist that they must take a trip in the off-season because it's so educational or is good family time. Aren't the educational and family time experiences available year-round?

We used to take our kids out for trips all the time. Unfortunately, we can no longer do that, but we enjoyed it while it lasted. I have no issues whatsoever with someone pulling kids out of school. I think it's a great way to save money, enjoy smaller crowds and often get better weather. And some people have no choice but to go when school is in session due to their jobs. But please don't try to tell me that WDW is educational and that you have to pull your kids out for the educational experiences that they can't get in school. Or worse yet, say that those who don't believe this think that the only education can happen is in school. We find ways to educate our kids 365 days a year whether it's at home or at WDW. But we also know that trips to WDW are mostly about having fun as a family. Why not get the best of both worlds and take your kids when school's not in session in order to enhance their educational experience beyond what they learned during the school year? Again, if you simply have to have the excuse for your school district, that's fine.

I think the OP in this thread got enough wording for an excuse pages ago, so it appears that this thread is now just another thread on the merits of taking kids out of school for educational purposes.

My point on the current tangent is to be honest - you're taking kids out to save money, enjoy lower crowd levels, hopefully have better weather or perhaps your job doesn't allow you to go when school is session. The educational part will always be there no manner when you go.

Which would be a great post in a thread debating the merits of "should you/shouldn't you".

But that's not what this thread was. It was dragged there, yes. It wasn't what the OP was asking, though.

Which was my point.

 

[LilyWDW]

Which would be a great post in a thread debating the merits of "should you/shouldn't you".

But that's not what this thread was. It was dragged there, yes. It wasn't what the OP was asking, though.

Which was my point.

Honestly, the way I look at it is, if you post something in a public forum on the internet expect people to comment on it. It may not always be the comments you want or asked for. Once it is out there, it will take on a life of its own. If you accept that before you post, then it is really not that huge of a deal.

If you are not willing to deal with any and all comments, then maybe you shouldn't post it.

 

[cheyandrew7]

When i take my DD out of school i'm putting Cheyenne will be out of school for these dates and my name and off she goes i'm not writing those crap letters

 

[bellamama]

Boy, I sure feel sorry for the OP

 

[rgf207]

I dunno -

If you follow that logic then anyone that takes a vacation anytime is infringing someone else's rights.

Anyone in a sevice based business (like teaching) has to expect to have to work around the vacations of their clients. Sometimes this creates headaches but that's just the way it goes.

Attorney's are are a great example, e.g. many work until midnight to meet a client deadline because that client is on vacation next week and needs the contract now.

I think the difference with some teachers is they may forget who it is that is paying them, and who their clients are.

I can't understand why people are comparing teaching to "service based" business or retail business. Students and parents are not clients. It's absurd to think they are the same. Why do people keep making these comparisons?

Teachers should not be expected to make special arrangements for students that go on vacation. They should not be forced to do extra work so you can pull you child out for a WDW vacation. That's not fair to them. Teachers have families too.

Also, teachers don't work for you because you pay taxes. That's BS.

 

[disneyfan888]

How about, "Dear School Administrators,
We are taking our kids out of school for ____ days from ___ (Month) to ____ (Month) so that the family can enjoy lower crowds and less expensive lodging at Walt Disney World, in Florida. The educational lessons of this family vacation will include:
1) economics - the importance of maximizing savings on family vacations
2) geography - the location, weather, and municipal infrastructure of Orlando, Florida
3) math - how quickly costs can add up for food, lodging and souvenirs
4) sociology - the diverse nature of people who attend theme parks
5) psychology - methods used by Disney to induce higher spending in their theme parks
6) English - grammatically correct signs and warnings on thrill rides
7) history - many Disney rides are based on myths and legends, and several are based on bona fide historical American artifacts and personalities
8) physics - actually experiencing positive and negative G-forces on several thrill rides
9) science - discovering the effects of dehydration and lack of sleep
10) foreign languages - hearing several languages in use by actual foreigners
11) biology - seeing, smelling, and possibly depositing stomach contents on the sidewalk after thrill rides
12) engineering - viewing and actually riding highly engineered thrill rides
13) astrology - examining and describing stars seen on the "Hollywood Walk of Fame" in DHS
14) art - experiencing actual animation instruction and getting a back-lot view of motion picture production
15) phys ed - walking approximately seven miles per day.

I hope you agree that, based on this ___ week visit, my children should be awarded a bachelor's degree in General Studies from the nearest state college. If that is not possible, please provide instructions on how my children can complete any additional requirements of their regularly scheduled classes (as if their classes could possibly cover anything remotely as comprehensive as this vacation will expose them to!).

Very truly yours,
Mrs X"

That should get the ball rolling for you...

This is hilarious!

 

[EMom]

Just curious...for those that use the my life, my kids, my choice thing....

Why don't you homeschool? If you don't homeschool abide by the regulations that were set forth. You are no better than others and agree to abide by the rules when you enroll your children.

If you truly want to do whatever you want then homeschool. For some reason, you enrolled that child in the school. I presume to learn?? In that case, let the teachers do their jobs. I get so frustrated by the parents that continually pull their children out because it is "their right". Yet, when their child gets back they are behind and keep interrupting the teacher and preventing her from progressing. What about the other children that did not miss school? What about their rights. They should not be penalized for someone else's vacation.

Abide by the handbook. If you don't want to, enroll them in another school or homeschool them.

No thanks.

If missing a week of school caused my child to get behind on her work, have to interrupt the teacher upon her return and actually prevented the class from progressing, I might give some weight to your stance. But that's not the case. I have yet to come across the assignment that she couldn't master on her own, or I couldn't teach her. In fact, last year when we went to WDW just before Christmas and she missed 6 days of school, she somehow managed to come back AHEAD of her classmates after Christmas break. It seems the class got bogged down that last week before Christmas break, but we stuck to tackling the assignments. She was able to take it easy for a few days when classes resumed.

And since the teachers in our district take off on vacation without blinking an eye.......Well, if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for my child. Her 3rd grade teacher (first year teacher, at that) used all 10 of her days off to attend bridal showers, visit her fiance, etc. I think it was last year that a neighbor's kid came home and mentioned she'd had a substitute that day because her teacher had flown to another state to visit her boyfriend. And then there was the lovely Friday in May when so many teachers decided to take off and enjoy a long weekend that we couldn't even find enough subs to cover all the classes. The way I see it, a teacher taking off on vacation has a much bigger impact on the class than my child taking off on vacation.

When I was teaching, we could not use our days off to go on vacation, but that has changed. But even back then, if a kid missed a week of school to go on vacation, it caused me no harm. They walked over to the calendar which listed the assignments, wrote them down, picked up any paperwork, and handed them in by the deadline. That was THEIR responsibility. That much hasn't changed.

You have to know your child and whether or not they can handle missing school and making up the work. Use some common sense. As long as my child's absence doesn't adversely impact the class or the teacher, (and it hasn't) then I don't give a red rat's hiney if someone gets their knickers in a twist because we went on vacation during the school term.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I dunno -

If you follow that logic then anyone that takes a vacation anytime is infringing someone else's rights.

Anyone in a sevice based business (like teaching) has to expect to have to work around the vacations of their clients. Sometimes this creates headaches but that's just the way it goes.

Attorney's are are a great example, e.g. many work until midnight to meet a client deadline because that client is on vacation next week and needs the contract now.

I think the difference with some teachers is they may forget who it is that is paying them, and who their clients are.

I am not a teacher, but I disagree with this analogy as well. A student is not a client that is paying a teacher such as a client pays an attorney to work until midnight to make a deadline. To me, the student is responsible for learning the material. The teacher is there to help guide them, but it takes a lot of effort on the part of the student and even parents irrespective of a vacation thrown in the works or not.

Some students can miss days or week of school and still learn the material. Others will have lots of difficulty if faced with the same situation. Some students will get great grades and high standardized test score regardless of how much time in the classroom they spend, while others need to work hard for it. It is very different depending on the student. As a parent, I would not want to place the burden of catching my child up after a vaction back on my teacher. As a parent, I have and would work to help my child get caught up for missing school with lots of communication before and after the trip.

Fortunately, vacations are not a big issue in our school district, but on the other hand, the teachers will not prepare work ahead of time for missing school. The kids have to make it up after they return. They get two days for each missed day so if you miss 5 days of school, they have two weeks (10 school days) to get caught up. But we have to do it on the teacher's time and schedule, not ours. In other words, you do it during their office hours, off hour or during intervention.

We no longer pull our kids out of school. We stopped a few years ago once our kids asked us to stop as it was too hard on them to make up the missed work. But if we were still pulling our kids out for vacations, I would feel completely irresponsible asking a teacher to work a lot of extra hours so that we can go on a vacation. In our district, the teachers were very accomodating and nice about it when we did it, but they wouldn't work lots of extra hours. To me, teachers are the ones doing our children a service and we as parents should do what we can to make their job easier.

It is not a client/service provider relationship IMO. It is a student/teacher relationship. In college, when you are paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars a credit hour, do you think your professor will accomodate you if you take a week off for a WDW vacation? Why do some think it's so different when the kids are in elementary or middle school?

 

[Planogirl]

I can't understand why people are comparing teaching to "service based" business or retail business. Students and parents are not clients. It's absurd to think they are the same. Why do people keep making these comparisons?

Teachers should not be expected to make special arrangements for students that go on vacation. They should not be forced to do extra work so you can pull you child out for a WDW vacation. That's not fair to them. Teachers have families too.

Also, teachers don't work for you because you pay taxes. That's BS.

I agree. Our teachers work for and get paid by the school district. True that we pay taxes to support the district but I also pay Target when I buy ketchup. I see it as no different as far as who works for who.

 

[nytimez]

In college, when you are paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars a credit hour, do you think your professor will accomodate you if you take a week off for a WDW vacation?

My tuition pays your salary, professor -- I will come and go as I please, darn it!

I actually had a couple of professors like that way back when (back when I had to walk to college uphill both ways in the snow). More than one would begin a semester saying something along the lines of, "I don't take attendance. I will know who's been coming to class and who hasn't when you turn in your work and take your exams.

 

[always]

My tuition pays your salary, professor -- I will come and go as I please, darn it!

I actually had a couple of professors like that way back when (back when I had to walk to college uphill both ways in the snow). More than one would begin a semester saying something along the lines of, "I don't take attendance. I will know who's been coming to class and who hasn't when you turn in your work and take your exams.

Yeah, but just because your tuition is helping to pay a professor's salary doesn't mean the professor has to let you make up a midterm that you missed because you decided to take a vacation.