SAT Prep

[gina2000]

Now's the time to start. Junior year usually is a tough year academically and it's no time to start pushing a student to study for the SATs. My son took the SAT in October and January of his Junior year and then in October of his Senior year. He took SAT2s and APs in the spring of Junior year and will be taking APs again this spring. (APs are used for placement in college).

Direct Hits is a good book for vocabulary - it connects words to specific, easy to understand examples. Create flashcards and get to work. The Blue Book is considered as having the closest questions to the SAT - that's the one my son worked with and he had great results.

NJ is an overcrowded, souped up state as far as the population is concerned. That means that tons and tons of NJ students apply to out of state flagships (think UVA and UNC, UCONN and UMASS) as well as to Rutgers. Quite frankly, competition is fierce due to the sheer population of the state. It's time to start planning, visiting, and studying.

 

[MrsPete]

Honestly, I wouldn't suggest the SAT for a sophomore. They typically haven't seen all the math that's on it. There's plenty of time to take it later-- most kids take it in spring (usually May) of Junior year and then again around Halloween of Senior year.

I'll back you up on this one. Students shouldn't take the SAT 'til they've finished Algebra 2. Why give them a test on math they haven't had yet? Why pay $47 to be disappointed?

Same thing as the above, I think. It's just a difference in philosophy and whatever works but from my pov, you'd better work and work hard on grades and testing and etc., to get into the best schools possible, to have the widest and best options possible. It's not all about Harvard or anything - the best school for some kid can be anything, but you have to work hard for that too. I mean... why aim low? Why not strive for the best you can personally do and have every option open? Maybe a kid figures they'll go to the local mediocre school because they think they couldn't get into a top tier, but with work and work on apps and etc., they could - doesn't mean they have to go but they might be more interested than they'd have thought if they actually had the opportunity.

I see your point: Kids who are encouraged to work harder will achieve more.

However, you can reach a point of diminishing returns on that concept. If you push-push-push-push the child, you may be able to -- for lack of a better word -- "artificially raise" the grades to the point that the child really couldn't have done them on her own. For example, if your child is "naturally" able to make a 1800 on the SAT, but you send her to a bunch of classes, have her take it multiple times, and do everything you can possibly do to eek out every single point she can possibly earn . . . she might manage an 2000. But she can't keep up that level of work in college; on her own, without tutors and extra help, she's a 1800-kid. If she goes to a 2000-SAT type college, she may find herself unable to keep up, unable to "run full-out" for four years straight. I don't think this happens all that often, but it does happen.

I'm thinking of a friend of my brother's. His mother pushed him so hard in high school. Every day he was required to come straight home and do his homework in her presence. She checked it, corrected it, proofed every essay, read his novels along with him so they could discuss them. He was #1 or #2 in their graduating class. Got a full-ride scholarship to a competative university. I forget whether he lasted one semester or two semesters. In fact, my high school boyfriend was like that too -- though to a lesser extent. His parents pushed him hard in high school, and he earned a full-ride ROTC . . . but he couldn't earn the grades in college to keep it.

You absolutely should encourage your child, but I fear you're treading dangerously close to the "too much" side.

The thing I noticed was that GPAs didn't have to be that high- 3.5. More emphasis was placed on test scores.

Maybe that's different in different areas, but I'm hearing quite a bit about colleges focusing LESS on the big tests and more on GPA. Don't take that to an extreme: I'm not saying that the tests don't matter -- just that they're a part of the picture, not the star item.

I don't want her to start out under a huge mound of debt because so much of scholarships might ride on a test score and she just did okay. That's the part I can't get her to understand. I'm willing to help but not take on the entire load of debt and I've been reading where some people's children aren't being approved for the loans they need. I'd hate for her to complete 2-3 years of college and not be able to finish because she can't get a loan. Why not put in the time and effort now to do her absolute best on the SAT/ACT, hopefully getting scholarship money, so she doesn't spend the next 10 years paying back loans? It's all about the long-term big picture and she just can't see that far into the future, although I don't think most kids can.

I started talking to my oldest about college costs, debt, etc. when she was a freshman. She didn't really start to "get it" 'til she was a junior and we started to visit colleges -- specifically, we started talking to her about exactly what we could afford/what we couldn't afford. At that point she could SEE what the money was purchasing, and at the same time she started to realize that lots -- even most -- of her very smart friends weren't getting big-time scholarships. I don't regret starting to talk to her about these things as a freshman; it prepared her. But I also don't think she was really ready to grasp the concepts 'til she was a junior.

On the positive side, she had a FAST learning curve and became very interested in her junior year. I don't think you're in trouble.

My DS is only in the 7th, but is a voracious reader! He can generally figure out most vocab words from the sentence, but I've noticed that now that he has his Nook, he simply taps on the word in question and gets the definition...something like that might just be handy for her in general to increase her vocab. It's a lot easier than stopping reading, looking the word up in the dictionary or asking me...so he just does it as habit now.

When I got my Kindle, I didn't think I'd use that feature -- ever. WRONG. I find myself using it constantly, and it's honed my use of words (and I'm an English teacher). When I read a paper-book these days, I sometimes find myself moving my thumb towards the non-existant vocab key! I think this is a great way to help kids improve their vocabulary.

She really doesn't have any outside interests, hobbies, sports she plays, etc. so she'll be short on that in her apps and she also doesn't have a job. I'd really prefer she spend her time working on good grades, not working for a living.

This is a red flag. The no-job in high school thing is not a big deal, but having no real life outside of her education is not really healthy. Also, it'll kill her with scholarships. Scholarships are tougher than every these days, and they go to kids who have good grades AND are well-rounded.

How about a summer volunteering gig? The library and the hospital often take summer teen volunteers, and those things could possibly spur a career interest as well. Or a summer camp job. And encourage her towards some clubs or group activities next school year too.

I completely disagree with everyone saying to back off! I received my scholarship which paid for all 4 years at a private school because I had my application, SAT scores and all, turned in by the end of junior year. My parents pushed me, and I hated it at the time, but now I'm 23 with little debt and a well-paying job that I love.

Cool story, but having taught school for 20 years, I know LOTS of stories -- some good, some bad. For every positive story like yours, I know a dozen negative stories with a variety of themes: Burn out or rebellion, flunking out, switching schools because it was mom and dad's choice rather than the student's real desire.

It's nice that being pushed hard helped you, but yours is not a typical story. I maintain that encouragement is good; pushing is bad.

Of course I'm expecting she'll take the test once or twice in Junior year and, if necessary, again in Senior year.

Four times total? Most students -- even our top, most competative students -- take it twice.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Mrs. Pete, I should have been more specific. My DD has Student Council type credits and club credits. But she does not have a specific hobby, or play an instrument or play a sport. There will be plenty of activities to mention on her apps, just not something that too time consuming. These are all things that I had to pry out of Guidance because they weren't very forthcoming. And these are things we needed to know to keep DD on track for National Honor Society, among other things.

As I said previously, DD will have finished Algebra II at the end of sophomore year, which is why I want her to take the SATs in June of this year, when that information is still fresh in her mind.

To the poster who suggested Quizlet, I showed it to DD tonight and she actually enjoyed playing around on it. She said "this is something I won't mind doing because it's fun". I understand that everything can't be fun, but if I can help her in little ways, I'm going to. So thanks for the Quizlet website. She also mentioned that she's used it before but never noticed she could do SAT prep work on it.

Anyone every used My Coach - SAT? It's for the Nintendo DS. Think I'm ordering that too.

 

[jbcheerchick93]

I'm about ready to pull my hair out. My DD has such a lax attitude about the SATs. And when we do the question of the day I'm shocked at her lack of vocabulary. How does this happen to a kid who's in Honors? I've purchased the SAT practice book but I just can't get her to focus. I can't make her understand how important this is. She's a sophomore and I'm trying to tell her that if she takes it slow, she's got plenty of time but she continually just yeses (yes's) me to death and doesn't do anything. I'm making her take the SAT in June hoping it will be a shock to her system when she does poorly. I honestly can't imagine she'll do well. She did do a faux PSAT and got a 1640 but she needs to realize that really wasn't a good indicator of which she's in for. Please, please help me figure this out. Are there any flashcards or other books, vocabulary or otherwise that you can recommend?

She's got a tough schedule next year and she really wants to take Computer Graphics. It will be the only "easy" class she has and I want her to start to branch out and figure out what interests her. However, it's at the expensive of not taking the school-run SAT prep course. I will NOT pay for an outside course when she's not taking this seriously. So frustrated. She's a great kid and a good student but her laidback attitude is killing me.

I would say to let her take it in June and see how she does. I went in with no prep other than school work and my mom tried to get me to practice. I did not do badly at all and if you'd like to know my scores you can PM me about it. The only thing that I really did to improve the second time was go over simple grammar and punctuation.

 

[cornflake]

I see your point: Kids who are encouraged to work harder will achieve more.

However, you can reach a point of diminishing returns on that concept. If you push-push-push-push the child, you may be able to -- for lack of a better word -- "artificially raise" the grades to the point that the child really couldn't have done them on her own. For example, if your child is "naturally" able to make a 1800 on the SAT, but you send her to a bunch of classes, have her take it multiple times, and do everything you can possibly do to eek out every single point she can possibly earn . . . she might manage an 2000. But she can't keep up that level of work in college; on her own, without tutors and extra help, she's a 1800-kid. If she goes to a 2000-SAT type college, she may find herself unable to keep up, unable to "run full-out" for four years straight. I don't think this happens all that often, but it does happen.

I'm thinking of a friend of my brother's. His mother pushed him so hard in high school. Every day he was required to come straight home and do his homework in her presence. She checked it, corrected it, proofed every essay, read his novels along with him so they could discuss them. He was #1 or #2 in their graduating class. Got a full-ride scholarship to a competative university. I forget whether he lasted one semester or two semesters. In fact, my high school boyfriend was like that too -- though to a lesser extent. His parents pushed him hard in high school, and he earned a full-ride ROTC . . . but he couldn't earn the grades in college to keep it.

You absolutely should encourage your child, but I fear you're treading dangerously close to the "too much" side.

I think there's a HUGE difference, like they're not even remotely comparable in my mind, between the two scenarios you outlined.

If there's a parent basically doing 90% of a kid's homework, perpetually, overseeing their daily work, making corrections, etc., in high school, the kid will get to college and be theoretically unable to complete work by themselves, without oversight and without help. The student may also find all the skills the parent was covering that the student lacked, exposed. Nevermind the general therapy they'd need for that mess will be taking up five days a week, leaving little time for classes.

However, a kid who scores an 1800 or even a 1600, who CAN go and eke out a 2000 - first, CAN get a 2000. They take that test on their own, even if they've been tutored up the wazoo. I don't think it requires that running flat out thing, but learning and figuring out how to work harder and smarter and every time a kid does that, it folds into the next thing. The first big paper is a huge task. A couple years later, a 10-page research paper is nothing, if they learned the correct, step-by-step way to work on it correctly.

Second, I don't believe the SAT is a particularly specific measure of achievement potential, nor do I think that schools with one particular average acceptance score is much more or less challenging than one with an average acceptance a few hundred points more or less. Colleges and universities have classes, colleges, departments, at all different levels. I mean if a school has an average acceptance with a 2200 SAT, but a kid with an 1800 gets in - does that matter? Is a more competitive school so much harder than at a less competitive one that a kid who scores a few hundred SAT points lower can't manage? I don't think so, personally. Hence there's a huge range in scores among accepted students in every class.

Nor do I think that differential on an SAT is that easily explained. I do think everyone has a ceiling, even with tutoring. All the tutoring in the world isn't going to get some kids a 2400, nor will it get some kids a 1500. However, some people have test anxiety, some people do well on straightforward work but don't 'get' the dippy trick questions on the test, while others just naturally 'get' the way the tests are written; some people are slower to work than others and could do perfectly fine in college but under timed conditions, miss enough questions they don't score well, etc.

I've heard 8000 stories too, good and bad - and went to high school with someone who scored in the mid to low 400s on each SAT section. Was also valedictorian at our very academically advanced school. Not only got into Yale despite the horrid SATs, but recently received a Ph.D from there. I believe the SAT has value and does say something, just not that much, and regardless, I think every kid should be encouraged to work hard on grades and tests and get the highest grades possible (not with parents doing the work for them, though a little help or pushing I don't mind).

 

[Aliceacc]

Four times total? Most students -- even our top, most competative students -- take it twice.

The same in my school. Pretty much the only kids we have who take it more than twice are those who desperately need a higher score, usually for an athletic scholarship. It's very rare to have a kid who is competitive in terms of schools and scholarships to need to take the exam more than twice. They simply use their best combination of scores from those two sittings and get into the schools they want to get into.

 

[Patience]

My daughter took the SAT 3 times, twice as a junior and once (in October, the day before we left for our Disney vacation last fall) as a senior. Her October scores were the highest in all 3 sections. She also took the ACT once and AP exams in May of her junior year. Junior year is busy for sure. I am so glad all of that is behind us! We sent her tuition deposit to the university of her choice last month. We have a break from all the college admission stuff for a while- our second child starts Kindergarten in the fall!

 

[cornflake]

Eh, lots of people take it 3x, especially since you only send what you want - except for schools that demand all scores.

I think if you take it four or more it starts to look weird, unless you were obviously taking it young, which schools will assume was a TIP like thing, in general.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Most likely as a sophomore, her friends aren't doing much with the SAT's. She will care more when her friends start talking it up. Have her take an official PSAT this year, save the real SAT for Junior and Senior year-lots of vocab in school between now and then.

I don't think it's wise to try to make her do it now. Once she hears how her friends did on it and starts looking inot schools and hearing what grades certain schools are looking for on SAT, then she'll care. Some things you just can't force a kid to care about. This is one of them.

 

[punkin]

The same in my school. Pretty much the only kids we have who take it more than twice are those who desperately need a higher score, usually for an athletic scholarship. It's very rare to have a kid who is competitive in terms of schools and scholarships to need to take the exam more than twice. They simply use their best combination of scores from those two sittings and get into the schools they want to get into.

Interesting...must be a regional variation. Around here almost everyone takes the SAT (or the ACT) at least 3 times, usually starting sophomore year, while they are taking Algebra II. Also, the school makes everyone take the PSAT in the 9th and 10th grade (and pays for it). We have to pay for the NMSQT qualifying test in 11th grade.

 

[Shmily1]

Back in the day, when I was in high school, all my friends (all of us in honors classes that graduated with honors) were stressed on the SAT. They took classes on Saturdays for about 2 months. I was too interested in going to the beach among other things. I went out the night before while all of them went to bed at 8 or 9. They all showed up with a dozen pencils and a bag of snacks. I showed up with two pencils and had just crawled out of the bed. When the scores came back, one friend made better than I did. The rest did worse than I did. Mine was high enough to get in the University but I didn't want to go there.

All of that to say, she will do fine. I think it is a good thing for her to take it early so you both can see how she will do. Relax mom and enjoy your years with her. It will all work out.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Back with an update. Just got DD's scores this morning: 1590. Just what I feared has come to pass. DD finished Geometry/Alegebra II and only managed a 510 on the Math. It definitely wasn't her strong subject all year but if she can't do better than that when it's fresh in her mind, I don't see much hope for improvement in that area. I've realized that she might have been done a great disservice by taking Honors Math. If she had taken a lower level, she would have spent an entire year on Geometry and another entire year on Alegebra II. This way she supposedly covered a year of each but in one academic year. I think she needed the slower pace. Nothing we can do about that now.

And her summer homework is . Don't see how she's going to find time to study for SAT doing all the work she was given.

My thinking has completely changed about Honors/AP courses. Maybe she would have been better off taking a lower level course and getting a better grade and a better grasp of the subject. I just don't know that the weighted grades/ability to use "honors" or "AP" on her apps is worth the price.

 

[SideshowBob]

My DD took three times ... once in 5th grade (I think) for Duke TIPs and then last two years. I was doing the happy dance this morning when I logged in as she scored an 800 in Reading. We are visiting Florida colleges now but think we may look at some out of state as hoping maybe some scholorship money there.

Good info on this thread which I had not read before. Thanks to all for sharing.

 

[marcyinPA]

Back with an update. Just got DD's scores this morning: 1590. Just what I feared has come to pass. DD finished Geometry/Alegebra II and only managed a 510 on the Math. It definitely wasn't her strong subject all year but if she can't do better than that when it's fresh in her mind, I don't see much hope for improvement in that area. I've realized that she might have been done a great disservice by taking Honors Math. If she had taken a lower level, she would have spent an entire year on Geometry and another entire year on Alegebra II. This way she supposedly covered a year of each but in one academic year. I think she needed the slower pace. Nothing we can do about that now.

And her summer homework is . Don't see how she's going to find time to study for SAT doing all the work she was given.

My thinking has completely changed about Honors/AP courses. Maybe she would have been better off taking a lower level course and getting a better grade and a better grasp of the subject. I just don't know that the weighted grades/ability to use "honors" or "AP" on her apps is worth the price.

My DS17 got his SAT scores back from the May test several weeks ago, and he only managed an 1180 He was really disappointed. We hired a private tutor for him for the math portion because he was only in Alg 2 this semester and hadn't finished the coursework by the time he took the SAT. He will take the test again in the fall- and I'm not sure what I am going to do- either enroll him in a prep class or hire the math tutor again (at $45 an hour..)

The only good thing is that the average SAT scores of incoming freshmen at the colleges he is looking at is an 1100. Hopefully, his will be good enough, along with his grades (which is a 3.245- not stellar) and his activities- which he is in MANY.

 

[Gina]

The scores you guys are referencing -- is that the old way of just math & reading factored in, or the newer way with both of those + writing?

 

[marcyinPA]

The scores you guys are referencing -- is that the old way of just math & reading factored in, or the newer way with both of those + writing?

My DS's scores were out of 2400. Not great. He is a nervous test taker- so it is what it is. Hopefully the next go-round he can add some more points on, but I'm not expecting miracles.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

My DD's score was also out of a possible 2400. DD scored a 1590 this time after having gotten a 1640 on PSAT. She went in the wrong direction. Lol

 

[marcyinPA]

My DD's score was also out of a possible 2400. DD scored a 1590 this time after having gotten a 1640 on PSAT. She went in the wrong direction. Lol

My DS did better on the PSAT too! And on the SAT practice test that he took this past winter. I think that was what was most disappointing to him...he didn't do well when it counted.

 

[Christine]

My DS did better on the PSAT too! And on the SAT practice test that he took this past winter. I think that was what was most disappointing to him...he didn't do well when it counted.

From everything I've read, the majority of kids do worse on the real test than on all the practice tests. I haven't read of one that went the other way. My son scored a 173 on his PSAT but then got an 1830 on his SAT that the took in May. So, he definitely improved. He felt the PSAT was harder than the SAT or it was the time constraints he didn't like. But many kids are much more relaxed taking the PSAT because they often do it in a familiar environment. He will be retaking his SATs in October because he needed to do MUCH better in math as he is looking at either engineering or accounting and the schools he wants to apply to are EXTREMELY competitive for those programs. His SAT scores are very borderline for acceptance.

 

[cornflake]

The PSAT is easier, the questions are simpler and it's MUCH shorter. It's meant to give an idea of how someone will do on the SAT given the time gap and extra schooling/maturity.

Some kids do bump up from the practice tests to the real thing - depends a lot on what practice tests and how they're using them - and some from PSAT to SAT, but yeah, plenty go the other way too.

Remember, around 500 is the average national score per section. Which I realize isn't helpful if a kid is in a competitive area/school and looking at more competitive programs but perspective-wise, it can help.

Also, a lot of times, a score they don't want can be a good wake-up call to a decently motivated kid. The SAT I doesn't have particularly complex math, nothing on it even requires the use of a calculator (you can use one on the test, but you can do the entire thing without one without any problem). With a lot of work on practice tests and questions and maybe some help recognizing how to best approach the test, people can make good improvements.