Sales rep: fact, fiction or good deal?

[ctclocal]

Did the dvc tour a AKL. Seems like a good deal but wanted others input on our offer.

Rep said we could do a 100 pts not 160 like others said was the minimum. Am I in for a bait and switch at closing?

Also we were offered $8 off price per point if we sign before we leave.

Also said we if we buy before we leave they will back date our annual date to June 1st. So in 6 months our plan will have 100 points banked already instead of waiting a year.

All seemed like a good deal and incentive. But I was curious is there a better buying strategy? Will they negotiate further like waiving the closing cost?

Thanks

 

[adminjedi]

Disney doesn't negotiate price or closing costs. They don't bait and switch. The current published offer is what you get. Minimum buy-in (contract size) can vary by offer and resort. Offers can vary by location: Doorway to Dreams, onboard Cruises, or at the Parks. We have found cruise offers to be the best and can include gift cards and/or VIP fast passes.

You can choose use year, based on availability. They give current year's points and dues are prorated from closing - that isn't a special offer, it is always done this way. The closing costs direct are minimal, much less than on resales, and points are generally available for booking upon signing.

Have fun!

 

[chalee94]

All seemed like a good deal and incentive. But I was curious is there a better buying strategy?

yes. buy a resale for thousands less.

 

[adminjedi]

yes. buy a resale for thousands less.

True, buying resale is less per point. Just make sure you are educated on the length of the process, potential glitches and frustrations, and restrictions on use of those points.

 

[disneynutz]

Choose your UY based on your vacation habits, not on what they offer. They will give you any UY you want when you tell them that the sale depends on it. All it takes is one loss of points to educate you on the importance of the correct UY.

Disney doesn't bait and switch, they are a great company to work with if you do your homework and know what you are buying. They will temper the truth but you need to ask the right questions to get all of the answers. They are sales people who are highly trained so they have the advantage.

You are buying a temporary real estate interest, a business transaction, don't get caught up in the emotion of the Disney feeling that they are so good at creating.

Waiting a couple of months to get your points can save you a few thousand dollars. Immediate gratification does have it's price.

Bill

 

[ToddyLu]

You can also purchase ANY of the resorts (typically) from Disney and also through resale. So if AKV isn't your favorite go with what you like in another resort. Again, you can choose any use year if those points are "in stock" with DVC. The only thing you are really garaunteed with DVC is to be able to book at your home resort. Right now the rules allow you to book at all DVC resorts at 7 months--but that all could change if DVC wanted to change it--then you would be stuck at your home resort.

We love AKV and purchased our points there---you are new to the forum and I want you to have all the angles. Please take advice from the PP and read, read, read to learn the ins and outs of what you are buying. DVC is one of the most expensive timeshares--and well worth it--but I did a lot of research before our purchase and am still learning things two years later.

There is no rush to purchase and you can rent points from a member to see if it is really what you want.

 

[JimMIA]

All seemed like a good deal and incentive. But I was curious is there a better buying strategy?

As others have suggested, for AKV (and almost any other resort) purchasing resale will save you major bucks.

For example, you are looking at buying 100 points. According to the current promotional information, that $8 off offer is only for 160+ pomts. With 100 points, I believe you will only get $6 off. But for comparison sake, let's go ahead and use the $8 number. You'll pay $120 - $8 = $112 per point, or $11,200. You'll also pay modest closing costs and about 1/12th of the years dues (less than $50). Assuming the June UY works for you, you will have five months to use the 2011 points or one month to bank them into 2012.

Resale prices are MUCH lower for AKV. Resales have cleared ROFR (Disney's Right of First Refusal) at $60 per point THIS WEEK. You'll probably pay a little more than that for a 100-point contract, but you'll still have a major savings. For example, if you pay $70 per point resale, you'll save at least $4,000 on the purchase...and that's factoring in closing costs about $200 more than you'll pay direct.

Another way to look at it is to realize that the day you close on your $112 direct price, your points are worth no more than $70.

There are some differences with buying resale:

• Resale takes longer. You can close quickly and start using your points immediately purchasing direct. Resale will probably take 4-8 weeks.
• It is possible (but not likely) that you could have a false start with resale if Disney exercises ROFR on your purchase. In that case, they'd take your place as the buyer and you'd have to start over. However, the last reported ROFR of AKV was in January 2009, so I wouldn't worry about that much.
• There are also occasional problems with resale transactions -- particularly with one broker. Sometimes the listings prove to be erroneous; other times there are impediments to completing the transaction, like divorce actions, bankruptcy, underwater loans, etc.
• The non-DVC use of resale points is restricted. You will not be able to use resale DVC points for DCL cruises or for non-DVC Disney hotels, for example. But honestly, most people don't think those options are very attractive anyway -- the points costs are just WAY too high. You WILL, however, be able to use your resale points for RCI exchanges.
• Also, you should keep in mind that ANY of those non-DVC uses of points can be taken away from ANY owner (including direct purchasers) at any time with one swipe of the Mouse's pen.

I would certainly encourage you to take your time, do your own research, be sure you understand all the operational details of how a DVC account works, and make your own decision at home on your own timetable.

Understand that the purchase price is just the tip of the iceberg. You're considering a 50-year financial committment to a timeshare that will far exceed your purchase price. Before you make that committment, I'd also encourage you to look at the other options -- both other timeshare systems and the numerous cash options.

Don't be rushed into a hasty decision by a smooth-talking timeshare salesman.

 

[MyCathryn]

This is what we were offered. The specials are all pretty standard. We bought direct and dont regret it. It is what works for our needs. Good luck making your decision.

 

[CMOORE185]

I am in the camp you should buy AKL resale. Way too much of a difference in price. I bought my first two contracts direct when there was not much difference between direct vs resale, my last I bought resale when the price difference got to be to much to ignore. I know they are pushing AKL right now, but if you are intent on buying direct and have no emotional ties to AKL, SSR is a better deal, not only in price per point, but in MF's.

 

[nunzia]

Although resale is a great initial deal (those never ending yearly MF are the same as direct buyers forever and ever though and that is where you real cost comes..the yearly MF) I am beginning to feel that in the future Disney will put more restrictions in place on resale contracts. Although I don't think the current restrictions are a big deal for most, they need to be considered as well as what may come down the road. I was surprised that resale owners can't book a Member's Cruise this year, so who knows what's next.

 

[ctclocal]

Wow great info. JimMIA, I'm looking at the current incentive offer sheet. It says 100-150 =$8.00 per point. 160-210 =10.00 per point.

Our vaca habits seem to fall in line but I'm concerned because we do want to cruise. Resale points are not valid for that or did I misread that?

Also let me ask if this logic makes sense, while we love the wilderness lodge or akl we also like moderate resorts. If that's true and we only get to vaca about every 16 months, meaning we'd pay 2 years of annual dues per vaca doesn't that kill the value. Ex: annual dues $500+ per year X 2 years = $1,000 just in dues. Now if we tend to book resorts based on their usual 20-35% of rack rate promotion we pay between $900-$1,900 for our room (based on the last 3trips).

It seems like at best we'd save $900 and lose the ability to plan and go on vaca with in 1-3 month. I know it may not be just about saving for delux stays but doesn't it seem excessive to pay $10k-$20k to save upto $900?

Not complaining, just trying to work this out as I really do want to find a way to justify it.

How about this, does having the kitchen REALLY reduce your meals spending? In other words, do you dvc'ers actually cook most your meals on vacation?

 

[JimMIA]

Our vaca habits seem to fall in line but I'm concerned because we do want to cruise. Resale points are not valid for that or did I misread that?

You read it right -- no cruises with resale points. But you wouldn't be able to cruise anyway with just 100 points -- the points costs are much higher than that.

However, you could rent out your points for about $10 per point and use the proceeds to help pay the cost of a cruise -- Disney or otherwise. Other cruise lines offer more itineraries, newer ships, and lower fares than DCL, so being locked into DCL is not necessarily a good thing.

Also, using any points for cruises is subject to availability of a limited number of points reservations. Several times points bookings for DCL have been shut off for LONG periods (like 10-12 months) because of lack of availability. So even if you had 1,000 points there's no guarantee you'd be able to cruise.

Not complaining, just trying to work this out as I really do want to find a way to justify it.

If you have to work to justify a luxury vacation purchase, you have to wonder whether you're stretching things too much to get the answer you WANT rather than what is the best use of your vacation money.

I'd drop back to the starting point and try to decide whether you really want a timeshare in the first place.

If so, I'd figure out what you'd ideally use it for. Then -- and only then -- I'd start looking for a timeshare that would fit your needs. I'd look ONLY at the internal system of timeshare resorts. NO timeshare does well when used outside its own system.

What kind of vacations do you really want to take? Do you want to buy a timeshare strictly to visit WDW? Many do...but do you? If not, where else do you want to go...and does a particular system allow you to go where you want without fighting your way through an exchange system like RCI?

You can buy some very good timeshare contracts on eBay for $1, sometimes with free closing, but the more important thing is the FIT for your family.

How about this, does having the kitchen REALLY reduce your meals spending? In other words, do you dvc'ers actually cook most your meals on vacation?

My guess is that most don't cook at all, or only have breakfast in the villa, maybe lunch if they spend a full day at the resort. We use the refrigerator for drinks and snacks, but never cook.

IF you cook, there's no question that you can save significant money over the inflated Disney restaurant prices. But the comment I hear most frequently is "I don't cook on vacation."

 

[LauraLea]

Our vaca habits seem to fall in line but I'm concerned because we do want to cruise. Resale points are not valid for that or did I misread that?

Did the DVC Guide show you a points chart for cruises? A 100 pt contract will not go very far to use for a family to cruise.

Laura

 

[tjkraz]

Our vaca habits seem to fall in line but I'm concerned because we do want to cruise. Resale points are not valid for that or did I misread that?

That is correct.

Cruising on points does not "save" nearly as much as staying at DVC resorts on points (when comparing to cash in both cases) so most will tell you that using points to cruise is not a wise choice to begin with.

Also let me ask if this logic makes sense, while we love the wilderness lodge or akl we also like moderate resorts. If that's true and we only get to vaca about every 16 months, meaning we'd pay 2 years of annual dues per vaca doesn't that kill the value. Ex: annual dues $500+ per year X 2 years = $1,000 just in dues. Now if we tend to book resorts based on their usual 20-35% of rack rate promotion we pay between $900-$1,900 for our room (based on the last 3trips).

It seems like at best we'd save $900 and lose the ability to plan and go on vaca with in 1-3 month. I know it may not be just about saving for delux stays but doesn't it seem excessive to pay $10k-$20k to save upto $900?

Couple things:

1. If you're vacationing every 16 months, then you're using 16 months worth of dues per trip...not a full 2 years. You'll have to lay out some specific scenarios and make sure you're comparing apples-to-apples as best you can.

2. When you compare DVC to moderate resort stays, the "savings" will not be as dramatic. But it's worth factoring in the upgraded accommodations and resort amenities. If you're comparing to a DVC Studio, the room is about 50% larger. Each Studio has a balcony or patio. You get free access to laundry facilities. And you're staying at a Deluxe resort which tends to have a better pool & other recreation facilities, more dining options, better locations relative to the theme parks, etc.

If you're comparing your moderate room to a One Bedroom, the upgrades are even more dramatic (private bedroom, kitchen, dining room, washer/dryer in-room, jacuzzi tub, etc.)

Take into consideration not just what you are paying but what you are getting for the money. If upgrading to a Deluxe resort doesn't really hold any appeal, then that eliminates a lot of the benefit of a DVC purchase.

How about this, does having the kitchen REALLY reduce your meals spending? In other words, do you dvc'ers actually cook most your meals on vacation?

Varies greatly from member-to-member and often even trip-to-trip. We've had trips where we purchased the dining plan and ate all of our meals at Disney restaurants. Other times we've had only 2-3 restaurant meals in a week's time and made liberal use of the kitchen.

When our kids were young and needed a mid-day nap, it was very simple for us to eat meals in the room. There was a need to return to the room daily between 1-4pm for the nap, which made it easy to prepare our own lunch and dinner, spending about the same we would have at home to eat.

As the kids have gotten older, we find ourselves eating lunch in the parks most days but then returning to the room late-afternoon. Then we often eat a homemade dinner before heading out for the evening.

Some people are adamantly opposed to "cooking" while on vacation. Personally I never really considered grilling steaks or making a ham sandwich "cooking."

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

Our vaca habits seem to fall in line but I'm concerned because we do want to cruise. Resale points are not valid for that or did I misread that?

Also let me ask if this logic makes sense, while we love the wilderness lodge or akl we also like moderate resorts. If that's true and we only get to vaca about every 16 months, meaning we'd pay 2 years of annual dues per vaca doesn't that kill the value. Ex: annual dues $500+ per year X 2 years = $1,000 just in dues. Now if we tend to book resorts based on their usual 20-35% of rack rate promotion we pay between $900-$1,900 for our room (based on the last 3trips).

It seems like at best we'd save $900 and lose the ability to plan and go on vaca with in 1-3 month. I know it may not be just about saving for delux stays but doesn't it seem excessive to pay $10k-$20k to save upto $900?

Not complaining, just trying to work this out as I really do want to find a way to justify it.

These are the exact questions you need to ask yourself. Create a spreadsheet and see how your vacation habits compare between DVC and other WDW options.

Coming up with a true cost of your DVC stays is pretty straight forward. If you're purchasing at AKV, you'll have until January 31, 2057 to use your membership. Depending on use year and exactly when you buy, that probably means you'll have 45 use years of vacations during the life of your contract. So, if you're buying points at $112 each, the cost per point per use year is $2.49. (There's a small amount of closing costs that increase this number slightly, but over the course of the contract that probably only increases the price per point per year by a few cents. If you're financing the purchase, you'll definitely want to factor in the interest costs, as those will change the bottom line significantly.)

AKV maintenance fees in 2011 are $5.01 per point, going up to $5.44 per point in 2012. (For calculation purposes, plan on an average increase of about 5% per year after that, although that amount fluctuates and can legally go as high as a 15% increase in any given year.)

So, if you take a vacation every two years using all your points, the cost for a trip using all your 2011/2012 points would be:

200 X $2.49 = $498.00
100 X $5.01 = $501.00
100 X $5.44 = $544.00
======
$1,543.00

Note that the room you'll be staying in won't be exactly 200 points. If you know the resort, season, and room type for your first DVC vacation, you can figure out the exact points using the points charts here on the DISboards. That would give you a more precise price for your trip.

Now, go to the WDW web site and price out the room cost, using whatever discounts are available to you, for where you'd stay in 2012 if you weren't a DVC owner. Don't forget to factor in things like Free Dining or 4th Night Free if you've traditionally taken advantage of them.

If you know you want to stay in the deluxe villas (or studios) for your trips, DVC will probably price out very favorably. However, if your family is comfortable in Moderates or discounted off-site hotels, you might find a different answer.

(Take a look at this post, which compares DVC savings to the Free Dining program. However, it assumes you would be staying in a deluxe villa in either case.)

How about this, does having the kitchen REALLY reduce your meals spending? In other words, do you dvc'ers actually cook most your meals on vacation?

I think you'll find there's a full spectrum of answers here. You'll find everything from "I'm on vacation and don't want to mess with cooking" to "we eat most meals in the room." For us, and most owners, it falls somewhere in between. We personally eat breakfast in the room most days, and cook a few dinners during the course of a stay. We also still enjoy many restaurant meals.

Again, it's all a matter of personal preference, and you'd have to determine how you think your family would vacation.

 

[mlayton14]

JimMIA ... great analysis and RIGHT on the money with your posts. You show both sides of the DVC equation .. not all fairy dust and certainly show the benefits for certain types of vacationing habits.

 

[Dean]

That is correct.

Cruising on points does not "save" nearly as much as staying at DVC resorts on points (when comparing to cash in both cases) so most will tell you that using points to cruise is not a wise choice to begin with.

Tim, I would go a couple of steps further. Buying to cruise costs one money based on current and past information. The BEST one could do would be to break even at times. It's best to buy less points and use cash for other options when one has the option going in.

 

[luckyman_apd]

Tim, I would go a couple of steps further. Buying to cruise costs one money based on current and past information. The BEST one could do would be to break even at times. It's best to buy less points and use cash for other options when one has the option going in.

I agree 100%. We ALMOST bought at Disney last February because we "caught up" in the moment. And the salesman did a great job using that on us. Thankfully we had friends that own and said don't do it. Come home and think it over. Our friends said that any promotion in the park, they would offer over the phone, or come close to it, but it wasn't worth taking without fully thinking it over. I'm glad they did. After much research, and still haven't made a decision, I do know that 160 points is too much for our travel needs. We have averaged trips every 18 months. With basically 2 trip in 3 years time, we figured a 100 point resale will fit our needs with studio accommodations in the fall, skip the next year and bank, and then a week in the summer with a 1 bedroom with borrowing. If we had more than 100 points, we would either have to upgrade to a better room to use all the points, or we'd waste points. For me, it's not worth paying for the extra points, if we don't need them. We are happy to stay in the studio for a 5 night fall trip. If we find in the future that we need more points, we'll purchase more then. So make sure you figure out your points needs first.

If February, we got caught up in the 2 bedroom we stayed at while renting. We had our in laws with us, but we quickly realized the amount of points for that kind of stay were far out of our budget. We quickly realized that DVC can be a good deal, but you still have to pay for those deluxe vacations!

Anyway, if you are in the park on the tour, visit ALL the room types if you can, and then compare points charts to fit your needs in the time of year you would vacation.