SAHM Vent

[Acklander]

I was going to post something along these lines! Being faced with the question of whether or not to go back to work, I know I could not go back into my former job. It is very demanding, requires some travel at times and evenings and weekends when there is a project that requires it. There would be times when no one would be there for our kids.

If I got a different type of job, let's say I'd be home by 6pm (leaving at 5:00, traffic and all). Who would pick up my elementary school kids at 2:30, take them to their dance classes and other activities, prep dinner to be ready around 6:30pm, etc. Also, as stated, my husband would be on the line to stay home if they are sick, pick them up if they need early pick up, we'd have to trade off on vacations, alternate drop offs. Also share in the laundry and meals, because I wouldn't be expected to do it all.

I'm interested in hearing how other people who work handle school pick ups, driving to activities, school vacation time, etc. I'm wondering if they have family to help. We have no family around.

I think every family deals with it differently depending on their priorities and needs. I know our needs changed as well over the years, depending on where we were in our life, and where we were in our jobs. When I had babies I swapped from the M-F 8-6 office job(and many times later at night) to consulting work. We lived in a very high housing cost area so We had a live in nanny who would take care of baby in the mornings (when I would schedule to meet with clients at their place of businesses) in exchange for housing and meals. (She had an evening job for her income). I would spend afternoons with baby, doing errands, and housework and when DH got home around 530 he would take over on dinner duties, baby duties etc... While I worked in a home office.
When baby was about 3(??) we swapped to daycare (for socialization) and I got the bulk of my work done during the day and evenings dh and I shared the housework and child care. At this time I usually dealt with sick kids and appts because I still had more flexibility. During school age dh swapped jobs that gave him more flexibility and he swapped to handling the appt stuff (lived close to school so kids got themselves home after activities) and showing up to school events while I swapped to more structure.
I'd say over the years, it's equally balanced out on the child care and house care. Some years I picked up the bulk of it, some years he did. Also, over the years we've probably earned the same amount. Some years he out earned me, some years I out earned him.
We were fortunate- we both enjoyed working and we both enjoyed family time. We were able to find a balance that worked for us, and we did it together. But the important thing is, we were both on the same page and had refused to take jobs that didn't allow that balance. If either one of us had taken a job that required long hours, lots of travel, or an erratic demanding schedule, the other would have had to pick up the slack to bring the home life into balance. Which would make the work options out of balance as well. Each family has to find that balance that works for them. If they find something that works - all is good, don't worry about what others think about it.

 

[mickeyboat]

I'm interested in hearing how other people who work handle school pick ups, driving to activities, school vacation time, etc. I'm wondering if they have family to help. We have no family around.

We have no family around. The kids ride the bus home. Unless the activity is right after school, most activities are scheduled in the evenings when we are available to take them. If there is something that starts a bit earlier, we car pool so that my SAHM friend might do drop off, but I might do pick up later.

DH and I both have some flexibility in our jobs, so we can take time from work to take them. I usually try to schedule appointments as early in the morning or as late in the evening as possible to minimize the amount of time we miss work. Most offices try to accommodate.

The flip side of this is when women who work are looked down upon and often seen as selfish, uncaring and irresponsible, etc. It works both ways.


I understand what you are saying, but can you see that this, in itself, can feel offensive, because it implies that women who work are not the "single, strongest guiding force in their child's life" because they have "delegated [care of their child] to a nanny, day care center, or school" - which is preposterous?

These are the types of things that either "side" can easily take offense to in this type of "debate". And naturally, us moms are going to be defensive when it comes to this subject, i.e. our children.

FTR, I've always worked, but fortunately, have (mostly) been able to enjoy a child friendly schedule, so I have the best of both worlds (although my children did spend some time in child care and had babysitters at home, including my mother, in order to make my schedule work when they were little). My DH and I have always worked as a "team", and now that we have teens we are all a "team", and never even once, despite the many caregivers that worked with my children, was anyone more of a guiding force than either my DH or I was. Even my mother, who was very involved in their lives, and even lives with us. It was always crystal clear who their parents were, and I'd venture to say that's true of most working parents. If it's not, then something else is at play, not just the fact that they work.

I always find these discussions fascinating.

 

[JanaDee]

I'm uneasy with women being defined by the fact that they are mothers - whether SAHM or WM. Raising our kids is perhaps the most important thing we'll ever do, but it's still something we DO, it's not an identity. I think the fact that it has become one is what makes these discussions so intensely personal and contentious.

I *am* a mother, just like I am a wife, sister, daughter, friend, etc. It is part of my identity and always will be.

It does not, however, define everything I am and it shouldn't. Just because I am a mother doesn't mean I can't be anything else. I was somebody before I became a mother and will continue that after my children are grown and gone.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I guess I dont see why this if offensive.

Because it implies/assumes/declares that working moms are subrogating their parental "influence".

If there's any doubt about a mother's influence in a child's life, regardless of her working status, see the "drunk MIL" thread going now on the CB.

 

[JanaDee]

I'm interested in hearing how other people who work handle school pick ups, driving to activities, school vacation time, etc. I'm wondering if they have family to help. We have no family around.

In our neighborhood, they all rely on me to get their kids where they need to be, as far as sports and other daytime activities (at least the ones that are DD's friends).

 

[North of Mouse]

Snark? Really? Where? Because having an opposing point of view or a differing opinion isn't snarky. It's human. Those two posters you criticize have different experiences/opinions from the OP.

Nope! It was a 'put down' pure and simple, and a thinly veiled one.

 

[Acklander]

I guess I dont see why this if offensive. You are either getting help or hiring help to do stuff for your family/children. Some of us chose not to do that and do it ourselves. Our school has aftercare, homework is done there and help is offered. So those parents are not helping with the math problem, the aftercare worker is. In my house I am the one helping with the math problem after school. ( except with some of this Common Core stuff, but that is another thread) ) Or like my friend who hired the driver, she delegated that resposibility for her children to someone else, in my house that all falls on me. You are the parent, you are the decision maker, but in many instances you ARE delegating childcare things to others whether it is family or hired services.

We all delegate our children to someone else at some point in their lives. Children aren't born in a bubble, attached to us until the day they turn 18.
You're the one helping with the math but you choose to send your child to school to be taught by someone else. If they belong to a team, they probably have someone else coaching them and so on. In some families parents choose to home school but make sure they have plenty of outside (delegated to someone else) activities so they get the socialization. In other families the kid might go to school but the dad is the coach for the little league team. In another family someone is hired to drive the kid (or carpool) but that parent is hosting the sleepover for a group of kids. We all delegate, that doesn't take away from our role or responsibilities as parents.

 

[U2_rocks!]

I guess I dont see why this if offensive. You are either getting help or hiring help to do stuff for your family/children. Some of us chose not to do that and do it ourselves. Our school has aftercare, homework is done there and help is offered. So those parents are not helping with the math problem, the aftercare worker is. In my house I am the one helping with the math problem after school. ( except with some of this Common Core stuff, but that is another thread) ) Or like my friend who hired the driver, she delegated that resposibility for her children to someone else, in my house that all falls on me. You are the parent, you are the decision maker, but in many instances you ARE delegating childcare things to others whether it is family or hired services.

What it comes down to is that I am happy to delegate, others are not. I have a senior job where I delegate stuff all the time. It's part of being a team. Sometimes there are things I could do better myself at work, but I delegate them because my time is more importantly spent doing something else at that moment. My income is critical to our family (it's much higher than DH's) and so I choose to delegate some things that are hard for me to do because of the timing. I also choose to have good mental health so that I am not a basket case, and so that I do not snap at my kids, and the only way for ME to ensure that is to hire help with the chores etc. so that I am not spread too thinly.

I happen to believe that relationships with other trusted adults are good for my children. I am glad that they were able to bond with a nanny from a very different walk of life from us and learn to respect her and her authority. My kids are lot closer to their grandparents than they would be if I had been at home with them and not needed my parents' help. When my kids had trouble with various subjects I paid for extra lessons for them from someone who was patient and good at explaining things - there was absolutely no reason why it had to be me helping them. I am a healthy person, so I use my own sick days to stay with sick children when I can, but I have been lucky that my kids keep pretty healthy as well. Yes there are certainly times that kids really need their own parents, and it can be emotionally detrimental to them if they don't have them for the majority of those times. But there are so many other things that don't have to be done by their parents, and in fact the kids often enjoy the different people they come into contact with. There are aspects of carpooling that my kids love e.g. the mom who buys them snocones outside the school gate, or stops at the supermarket on the way home and lets them have treats I don't normally buy. They enjoy being in a car with good friends on the way to an after-school activity. The lady who gave them all extra lessons had some adorable dogs that my kids loved to play with when lessons were finished.

The many other adults in the kids' lives, if you choose them wisely, can give the kids all sorts of experiences, life lessons and fun that could not be gained from being with the one set of parents all the time. I do not for one minute believe that I am the best person to do every single thing for my kids - there are many people equally or even more qualified for some of the things my kids need. I'm not trying to say that my way is better - what I am saying is that my kids are absolutely no worse off than the ones who have their parents do everything for them. Both ways have their relative merits.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

In our neighborhood, they all rely on me to get their kids where they need to be, as far as sports and other daytime activities (at least the ones that are DD's friends).

Interesting. If I needed rides for my children, I always either a) paid someone or b) made darn sure I returned the favor in one way or another. I guess I was fortunate in that our group of friends, we had a saying, "It all evens out in the end", which was true - for us. And we had a varied group of people - some who stayed home, some who worked, and every combination. Everyone contributed.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

What it comes down to is that I am happy to delegate, others are not. I have a senior job where I delegate stuff all the time. It's part of being a team. Sometimes there are things I could do better myself at work, but I delegate them because my time is more importantly spent doing something else at that moment. My income is critical to our family (it's much higher than DH's) and so I choose to delegate some things that are hard for me to do because of the timing. I also choose to have good mental health so that I am not a basket case, and so that I do not snap at my kids, and the only way for ME to ensure that is to hire help with the chores etc. so that I am not spread too thinly.

I happen to believe that relationships with other trusted adults are good for my children. I am glad that they were able to bond with a nanny from a very different walk of life from us and learn to respect her and her authority. My kids are lot closer to their grandparents than they would be if I had been at home with them and not needed my parents' help. When my kids had trouble with various subjects I paid for extra lessons for them from someone who was patient and good at explaining things - there was absolutely no reason why it had to be me helping them. I am a healthy person, so I use my own sick days to stay with sick children when I can, but I have been lucky that my kids keep pretty healthy as well. Yes there are certainly times that kids really need their own parents, and it can be emotionally detrimental to them if they don't have them for the majority of those times. But there are so many other things that don't have to be done by their parents, and in fact the kids often enjoy the different people they come into contact with. There are aspects of carpooling that my kids love e.g. the mom who buys them snocones outside the school gate, or stops at the supermarket on the way home and lets them have treats I don't normally buy. They enjoy being in a car with good friends on the way to an after-school activity. The lady who gave them all extra lessons had some adorable dogs that my kids loved to play with when lessons were finished.

The many other adults in the kids' lives, if you choose them wisely, can give the kids all sorts of experiences, life lessons and fun that could not be gained from being with the one set of parents all the time. I do not for one minute believe that I am the best person to do every single thing for my kids - there are many people equally or even more qualified for some of the things my kids need. I'm not trying to say that my way is better - what I am saying is that my kids are absolutely no worse off than the ones who have their parents do everything for them. Both ways have their relative merits.

Excellent post. And obviously, you chose them very carefully, as did I (and I'm sure did others, too).

 

[U2_rocks!]

Interesting. If I needed rides for my children, I always either a) paid someone or b) made darn sure I returned the favor in one way or another. I guess I was fortunate in that our group of friends, we had a saying, "It all evens out in the end", which was true - for us. And we had a varied group of people - some who stayed home, some who worked, and every combination. Everyone contributed.

Agreed. I always look for people I can help in return. Some of the moms I have carpooled with to after-school activities either didn't work or finished work a lot earlier than I did, so they took the kids from school to the activity. In turn, they wanted to be home doing dinner and helping the other kids with homework in the evening when the activity ended, so I would do the pick-up. In terms of school, many moms didn't have a reason to be up and out of the house headed in the direction of school at such an early hour, whereas I work near the school. So I have always been happy to drop everyone to school. The other moms would then handle the pick-up. I have always managed to find arrangements that work, and have only begged for a favour that I couldn't repay on rare occasions (and then I'd buy the mom a drink next time we were out together!).

 

[Miss Penny]

I guess I dont see why this if offensive. You are either getting help or hiring help to do stuff for your family/children. Some of us chose not to do that and do it ourselves. Our school has aftercare, homework is done there and help is offered. So those parents are not helping with the math problem, the aftercare worker is. In my house I am the one helping with the math problem after school. ( except with some of this Common Core stuff, but that is another thread) ) Or like my friend who hired the driver, she delegated that resposibility for her children to someone else, in my house that all falls on me. You are the parent, you are the decision maker, but in many instances you ARE delegating childcare things to others whether it is family or hired services.

I think the offensive part was your comment about SAHMs decide that childcare is of the utmost importance. I don't know any working moms who don't feel that way either, but unfortunately they don't get a choice, they have to work so they find the very best option for their childcare needs. I guess your comment could come across as they just don't care as much as SAHMs because they have decided to work instead of stay home with their kids, and that can be seen as offensive.

Interesting. If I needed rides for my children, I always either a) paid someone or b) made darn sure I returned the favor in one way or another. I guess I was fortunate in that our group of friends, we had a saying, "It all evens out in the end", which was true - for us. And we had a varied group of people - some who stayed home, some who worked, and every combination. Everyone contributed.

That is how it is here too, we all help when we can. There are a few that do take advantage of my SAH status but I know they would be there for me if I ever needed help with my kids.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Nope! It was a 'put down' pure and simple, and a thinly veiled one.

OK (and this will be my last post for a while), but do you see that the insults, or put downs, are being slung on both "sides". There have been no less than three posts on this thread complaining about/putting down working moms mooching rides. I rode out the first couple, but decided to present the "other side" at the third one. This whole "argument" is dumb, and highly subjective, with "put downs" being hurled and perceived on both sides. Why can't we all just get along? I'm sure if any of our children were being harmed, all of us would jump in to save another, right? So maybe we should just think of it that way - as mothers, we're all doing the same job, ultimately. The way we go about it is just unique to each family.

 

[Mkrop]

We all delegate our children to someone else at some point in their lives. Children aren't born in a bubble, attached to us until the day they turn 18.
You're the one helping with the math but you choose to send your child to school to be taught by someone else. If they belong to a team, they probably have someone else coaching them and so on. In some families parents choose to home school but make sure they have plenty of outside (delegated to someone else) activities so they get the socialization. In other families the kid might go to school but the dad is the coach for the little league team. In another family someone is hired to drive the kid (or carpool) but that parent is hosting the sleepover for a group of kids. We all delegate, that doesn't take away from our role or responsibilities as parents.

I never said it took away from the the role or responsibility of parents. In fact I think the exact opposite, but those working parents are delegating certain things, it is a fact, so why get offended by it when someone says you are. DH delegates a part of our lawn care to a service, doesnt make him any less in what he does for our house or make him any less in his role for the other parts of the yard. As SAHM parents we chose at this point in time NOT to delegate the carpool to someone else or the math help, but yes other things are delegated. But for some they say they do it all, and most times that isnt the case they do have help.

What it comes down to is that I am happy to delegate, others are not. I have a senior job where I delegate stuff all the time. It's part of being a team. Sometimes there are things I could do better myself at work, but I delegate them because my time is more importantly spent doing something else at that moment. My income is critical to our family (it's much higher than DH's) and so I choose to delegate some things that are hard for me to do because of the timing. I also choose to have good mental health so that I am not a basket case, and so that I do not snap at my kids, and the only way for ME to ensure that is to hire help with the chores etc. so that I am not spread too thinly.

I happen to believe that relationships with other trusted adults are good for my children. I am glad that they were able to bond with a nanny from a very different walk of life from us and learn to respect her and her authority. My kids are lot closer to their grandparents than they would be if I had been at home with them and not needed my parents' help. When my kids had trouble with various subjects I paid for extra lessons for them from someone who was patient and good at explaining things - there was absolutely no reason why it had to be me helping them. I am a healthy person, so I use my own sick days to stay with sick children when I can, but I have been lucky that my kids keep pretty healthy as well. Yes there are certainly times that kids really need their own parents, and it can be emotionally detrimental to them if they don't have them for the majority of those times. But there are so many other things that don't have to be done by their parents, and in fact the kids often enjoy the different people they come into contact with. There are aspects of carpooling that my kids love e.g. the mom who buys them snocones outside the school gate, or stops at the supermarket on the way home and lets them have treats I don't normally buy. They enjoy being in a car with good friends on the way to an after-school activity. The lady who gave them all extra lessons had some adorable dogs that my kids loved to play with when lessons were finished.

The many other adults in the kids' lives, if you choose them wisely, can give the kids all sorts of experiences, life lessons and fun that could not be gained from being with the one set of parents all the time. I do not for one minute believe that I am the best person to do every single thing for my kids - there are many people equally or even more qualified for some of the things my kids need. I'm not trying to say that my way is better - what I am saying is that my kids are absolutely no worse off than the ones who have their parents do everything for them. Both ways have their relative merits.

Once again I dont disagree with this, if the person you choose to help is a good influence even better for the child. It does not replace the parent, never said it did. It just means that some of us CHOSE to not delegate certain things for whatever reason. FOR ME, I want to be the one to help DS with math and monitor his other homework. But there could come a time, and there was that time, he needed a tutor. I welcomed that help.

But once again I dont get why people are offended when someone says they are delegating parts of childcare if they work, they are, it is a fact.

 

[JanaDee]

OK (and this will be my last post for a while), but do you see that the insults, or put downs, are being slung on both "sides". There have been no less than three posts on this thread complaining about/putting down working moms mooching rides. I rode out the first couple, but decided to present the "other side" at the third one. This whole "argument" is dumb, and highly subjective, with "put downs" being hurled and perceived on both sides. Why can't we all just get along? I'm sure if any of our children were being harmed, all of us would jump in to save another, right? So maybe we should just think of it that way - as mothers, we're all doing the same job, ultimately. The way we go about it is just unique to each family.

Relating my experience is not "putting down" working moms nor did I say it was "mooching". You did. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Paying someone to drive your child around is unheard of here.

Parents will reciprocate for my child when they can and I know they appreciate me being able to drive when they aren't.

 

[Coonhound]

Oh, but I'm a teacher and people do ask what I do all day. In fact, it is so common to ask what I do all day that they're revamping the evaluation process in many states "to hold us more accountable". Meanwhile, I'm sacrificing time with my own child to educate the children of others.If it's okay to question what I do all day, why is it not okay to question what you do all day? I am in the same camp as most of these other working moms. I work a 10 hour day with a 2 hour commute and still manage to cook, clean, shower, do laundry, and spend time with my kid.

Bolded. If this is how you truly feel, and you are spending more time with other people's children instead of your own, it's time to stop or at least find a less demanding job. You should never put strangers children before your own.

 

[U2_rocks!]

Some people want what I think of as the "full child rearing experience". They want to do everything for their kids. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with that, if that's what you want. As long as you don't get so wrapped up in it that you lose your own identity or spoil the children (i.e. don't teach them how to do certain things for themselves, or that the world doesn't revolve around them just because their mom is at their beck and call).

Similarly, some women don't feel the need for the whole full-on child rearing experience. They want a good relationship with their kids, and they want to raise productive future citizens, but they recognize that they can do so without being there all the time, for every experience that their child has. Unfortunately we all know some mom who has had kids but really doesn't want much of the child rearing experience at all, and gets involved as little as she can.

I believe that you can do the SAHM thing in a good way, and not spoil or coddle your child too much, and you can do the WOHM thing in a good way and not neglect your child too much. The child in both of these scenarios can be perfectly happy and healthy. If a child has a "bad" SAHM who does everything for them, they never have the benefit of interacting closely with "good" adults and learning from them - they only have the influence of that mom who may not be passing along good traits to her kids. Similarly, if they have a neglectful WOHM they may pick up undesirable traits from the other people they are being influenced by.

There's no such thing as a "perfect" mom. Each woman must decide for herself how she wants or needs to raise her kids, and then do it the best way she can.

 

[Mkrop]

I think the offensive part was your comment about SAHMs decide that childcare is of the utmost importance. I don't know any working moms who don't feel that way either, but unfortunately they don't get a choice, they have to work so they find the very best option for their childcare needs. I guess your comment could come across as they just don't care as much as SAHMs because they have decided to work instead of stay home with their kids, and that can be seen as offensive.



That is how it is here too, we all help when we can. There are a few that do take advantage of my SAH status but I know they would be there for me if I ever needed help with my kids.

I dont recall saying that. And you are using a blanketed statement, that all working moms are doing it because they have to. That is not true, many are doing it because they want to.

OK (and this will be my last post for a while), but do you see that the insults, or put downs, are being slung on both "sides". There have been no less than three posts on this thread complaining about/putting down working moms mooching rides. I rode out the first couple, but decided to present the "other side" at the third one. This whole "argument" is dumb, and highly subjective, with "put downs" being hurled and perceived on both sides. Why can't we all just get along? I'm sure if any of our children were being harmed, all of us would jump in to save another, right? So maybe we should just think of it that way - as mothers, we're all doing the same job, ultimately. The way we go about it is just unique to each family.

Why is it a put down, there could be some of us SAHMs who have gotten used in carpools bc of our SAHM status. I know I have at times. Other times the other moms and I have worked it out and they were very helpful at other times when I needed it. We worked as a team but the ones who were takers stand out. DS16 had one friend whose mom took advantage of all the SAHMs in his group of friends. She never picked up a carpool, on occasion her DH did but that was rare. And her excuse was always well I work. Umm so what? She worked at the local grocery store, she got done at 9pm. She claimed she could not pick up the boys from a 10pm dance because she worked. She lived 5 minutes from work, and about 10 minutes from where the dance was. So one of the moms asked if she might have to stay late? She said no but I work, so therefore I cant pick them up. She did this all the time, we felt bad for the kid and didnt want him excluded so we sucked it up but boy was that hard to deal with. I had a few more like her over the years but most have been helpful and it all does come out in the end even.

I would not assume that all the mom/dads work together like your group seems too. There are some bad apples out there.

 

[ZachnElli]

I never said it took away from the the role or responsibility of parents. In fact I think the exact opposite, but those working parents are delegating certain things, it is a fact, so why get offended by it when someone says you are. DH delegates a part of our lawn care to a service, doesnt make him any less in what he does for our house or make him any less in his role for the other parts of the yard. As SAHM parents we chose at this point in time NOT to delegate the carpool to someone else or the math help, but yes other things are delegated. But for some they say they do it all, and most times that isnt the case they do have help.



But once again I dont get why people are offended when someone says they are delegating parts of childcare if they work, they are, it is a fact.

It's offensive when you say SAHM's make child care the utmost importance, like working mom's don't, even if they are delegating child care, it is of the "utmost importance" to them too. Also saying that because SAHM'S don't delegate child care they are the single most guiding influence in their life and working mom's are not. My mom worked all my life and she was and is the single most guiding influence in my life even though she worked and I stay at home. You are contributing to the very argument between SAHM'S and WOHM's and then saying I don't get it, what's offensive about that?!

 

[U2_rocks!]

But once again I dont get why people are offended when someone says they are delegating parts of childcare if they work, they are, it is a fact.

I don't know why people would be offended at that fact either, unless they are already feeling conflicted within themselves about delegating certain things. I am not offended at all - as I said before, I am happy to delegate! In fact, I am the first to recognize deficiencies within myself and act accordingly. I am not a patient teacher when it comes to a kid that doesn't want to learn, so it's always going to be better for someone else to work with a reluctant kid. I do help with the everyday stuff that isn't causing real problems though.