Safety question ?

[cornflkgrl]

The Dallas police released a picture of an armed man who was thought to be the shooter. He was completely innocent, as I'm sure everyone is aware of. I read a statement from a relative or friend of his the next day that said the gun that he was carrying in that picture wasn't even loaded. I don't know if that statement proved to be true or false, but if true my question is WHY??? What would be the point of strapping a gun to your back at a crowded event and not being prepared to use it if necessary? If the whole point of being able to carry a gun out in public is for protection, what's the point of an unloaded gun? Because he can. 'Merica.

I wish all guns were carried this way at all times. It would help me. I'd just like to know who all has them. If they were required to be out in the open on your person at all times I wouldn't have to have awkward conversations with near-strangers about whether or not my kids can go to someone's house to a birthday party.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Of course there's not a whole lot you can do about an 18 year old that wants to commit suicide unless you get him help - or lock him up instead of the guns.

Yes, it is much easier to have someone (an adult in this case) legally committed than to keep a gun safe with the key seperate. please check into what that entails. And how many psych beds you got there in your state.

 

[CPanther95]

Yes, it is much easier to have someone (an adult in this case) legally committed than to keep a gun safe with the key seperate. please check into what that entails. And how many psych beds you got there in your state.

If you know he's suicidal, then of course you'd hide the key.

I didn't mean lock him up in an institution - I meant you'd have to lock him up in the safe instead of the guns. The point being, an 18 year old has thousands of ways to kill himself. If your solution is to get rid of your guns instead of getting him help, you will fail.

 

[cornflkgrl]

If you know he's suicidal, then of course you'd hide the key.

I didn't mean lock him up in an institution - I meant you'd have to lock him up in the safe instead of the guns.

Wow. My comments to that extend beyond acceptable disboard language.

Guns are responsible for almost 50% of suicide deaths.

But maybe if we locked everyone in a gun cabinet who displayed symptoms of mental illness we could lower those rates.

 

[Bluestars]

The Dallas police released a picture of an armed man who was thought to be the shooter. He was completely innocent, as I'm sure everyone is aware of. I read a statement from a relative or friend of his the next day that said the gun that he was carrying in that picture wasn't even loaded. I don't know if that statement proved to be true or false, but if true my question is WHY??? What would be the point of strapping a gun to your back at a crowded event and not being prepared to use it if necessary? If the whole point of being able to carry a gun out in public is for protection, what's the point of an unloaded gun? Because he can. 'Merica.

In my opinion, it's to either intimidate or provoke.

 

[MainMom]

Kids get into locked gun safes too. My coworker has a friend that lost his 18 year old son to suicide with the Dad's gun, that was locked away. Unless you carry the key 24/7 your kids have access to your guns.

Is 18 really a kid? He can join the army and have access to weapons. I feel this story is not the same as the kid who finds the loaded gun in your nightstand, car, etc. My kids would have to search for quite awhile to find all of the keys, ammunition and guns, get them together and then pull a trigger. We don't make it easy for them. They would really have to have some intent to go through it all at our house.

 

[Bluestars]

Kids get into locked gun safes too. My coworker has a friend that lost his 18 year old son to suicide with the Dad's gun, that was locked away. Unless you carry the key 24/7 your kids have access to your guns.

I have heard of other instances where juveniles got access to the locked guns of family members and murdered people. If there are mentally disturbed people in a house, it might be a better idea to not keep even locked guns in the house.

I grew up with guns. My mom kept one in her purse. We lived out in the country and one day two guys followed her when she was driving up our long driveway by herself. She pulled out her gun and they left. My dad slept with a gun under his pillow. I don't know what he did with it during the day. We were taught to never go into my parents' room unless invited, so we didn't. Still, I think guns need to be locked up if there are minors in the house.

My brother was a victim of gun negligence when he visited a friend and the friend accidentally fired his dad's gun. It hit my brother in his leg. He almost lost his life.

 

[CPanther95]

Wow. My comments to that extend beyond acceptable disboard language.

Guns are responsible for almost 50% of suicide deaths.

But maybe if we locked everyone in a gun cabinet who displayed symptoms of mental illness we could lower those rates.

You can't possibly be so unaware to think that someone actually believes people should be murdered by locking them into a gun safe as a solution for mental illness. My point was made very clear - you can't lock away every possible tool used for suicide so you need to get them help. Your feigned outrage isn't fooling anybody.

I'm the one espousing getting them real help. You're the one suggesting that a hunk of metal is responsible for depression and mental illness - and the solution to potential suicide is to simply keep them from access to guns.

Suicidal people use guns half the time because they're an efficient tool for that purpose. The suicide rate in France is just about the same as the US (actually a bit higher). They don't have access to guns, so half of French suicides are by hanging. Do you think banning all ropes, belts, wires, etc. should be the next step? Maybe the smart move is to treat the underlying problem.

 

[cornflkgrl]

You can't possibly be so unaware to think that someone actually believes people should be murdered by locking them into a gun safe as a solution for mental illness. My point was made very clear - you can't lock away every possible tool used for suicide so you need to get them

I'm the one espousing getting them real help. You're the one suggesting that a hunk of metal is responsible for depression and mental illness - and the solution to potential suicide is to simply keep them from access to guns.

I didn't mean lock him up in an institution - I meant you'd have to lock him up in the safe instead of the guns.

So it was a joke then? Hilarious.

Where exactly did I say that "a hunk of metal is responsible for depression?"

You said that people kill themselves other ways and basically if someone wants to die they will find a way (i am paraphrasing what you wrote above): "there's not a whole lot you can do....".

I pointed out nearly 50% of suicide DEATHS are by gun. Because, unlike slitting ones wrists in a low moment or taking some pills ...the gun is a little more effective at suceeding and not just sending the person to the ER for a stomach pump. If there was something that could stop someone from succeeding in carrying through with killing themselves, I'd think people would be interested in utilizing that "tool" In this case a locked gun cabinet with key and bullets stored elsewhere.

And getting the person help will be useless if you bring them back into an unsafe space. It ist like you take the person to the hospital, they fix them up...bloop...no more suicidal thoughts ever. We can get that gun back out. We are all good.

 

[CPanther95]

So it was a joke then? Hilarious.

Not a joke. An illustration of how futile your suggestion was.

Where exactly did I say that "a hunk of metal is responsible for depression?" ......

I pointed out nearly 50% of suicide DEATHS are by gun.

Nope you said: "Guns are responsible for almost 50% of suicide deaths". You're claiming guns were responsible, not the mental illness.

And getting the person help will be useless if you bring them back into an unsafe space. It ist like you take the person to the hospital, they fix them up...bloop...no more suicidal thoughts ever. We can get that gun back out. We are all good.

If they want to commit suicide, no place is safe unless you remove all guns, knives, sharp objects, extension cords, appliances - and then restrict them to the house. Even then, you won't think of everything.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Nope you said: "Guns are responsible for almost 50% of suicide deaths".

Yes. I am claiming guns/gunshots/bullets/what have you were responsible. Because that statistic says nothing about mental illness. It is a statistic related to the number of people who successfully kill themselves with guns. So, no, mental illness was not what killed them...it might have been an underlying factor in many of the deaths by gunshot. But ultimately, the gunshot is what killed them. The statistic is related to death by gun. Not death my dental floss or by poison or sharp object or extension cord. People who commit suicide do not always have a mental illness. Many do. You can always lock up your gun. You can not see inside someone's brain.

If you'd like the actual quote from the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention:...firearms were the most common method of death by suicide, accounting for a little less than half (49.9%) of all suicide deaths...
Their statistics came from cdc info gathered from hospital data.

Method of death. Death by gun. Suicide by gun. ..Responsible for Death. Killed by....
Really makes no difference to me. This wording.

 

[CPanther95]

Yes. I am claiming guns/gunshots/bullets/what have you were responsible. Because that statistic says nothing about mental illness. It is a statistic related to the number of people who successfully kill themselves with guns. So, no, mental illness was not what killed them...it might have been an underlying factor in many of the deaths by gunshot. But ultimately, the gunshot is what killed them. The statistic is related to death by gun. Not death my dental floss or by poison or sharp object or extension cord. People who commit suicide do not always have a mental illness. Many do. You can always lock up your gun. You can not see inside someone's brain.

If you'd like the actual quote from the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention:...firearms were the most common method of death by suicide, accounting for a little less than half (49.9%) of all suicide deaths...
Their statistics came from cdc info gathered from hospital data.

Method of death. Death by gun. Suicide by gun. ..Responsible for Death. Killed by....
Really makes no difference to me. This wording.

The Foundation wording is accurate. They are the most common method.

Just like hanging is the most common method in France.

 

[bsblady01]

I wish all guns were carried this way at all times. It would help me. I'd just like to know who all has them. If they were required to be out in the open on your person at all times I wouldn't have to have awkward conversations with near-strangers about whether or not my kids can go to someone's house to a birthday party.

If the gun is not locked up my kids are not going. We have a gun in our home it is locked in a gun safe and the keys are in a safe place where the kids can not find them.

 

[bsblady01]

So I asked my husband if he could carry outside of new York and he can. But he said he would not carry with his kids in the car since you never know if the gun could go off for some un know reason. We are still taking this trip we will just make sure we stay out of places that do not look safe.

 

[Malibustyle23]

Yes. I am claiming guns/gunshots/bullets/what have you were responsible. Because that statistic says nothing about mental illness. It is a statistic related to the number of people who successfully kill themselves with guns. So, no, mental illness was not what killed them...it might have been an underlying factor in many of the deaths by gunshot. But ultimately, the gunshot is what killed them. The statistic is related to death by gun. Not death my dental floss or by poison or sharp object or extension cord. People who commit suicide do not always have a mental illness. Many do. You can always lock up your gun. You can not see inside someone's brain.

If you'd like the actual quote from the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention:...firearms were the most common method of death by suicide, accounting for a little less than half (49.9%) of all suicide deaths...
Their statistics came from cdc info gathered from hospital data.

Method of death. Death by gun. Suicide by gun. ..Responsible for Death. Killed by....
Really makes no difference to me. This wording.

I hate to get in the middle of the peeing match you two seem to have going on and I am no way an advocate for guns at all but I must point out my disagreement with your above statement.

I would be willing to bet that mental illness and emotional instability would be a lot more than an underlying issue to their untimely death.

While the bullets in the gun did technically kill them if they didn't have a mental condition that gun would've never been used. If the gun wasn't there they still could've and probably would've killed themself just with another resource.

Desire to commit suicide+ gun = suicide
Desire to commit suicide-gun= suicide
No desire to commit suicide+gun= no suicide
No desire to commit suicide-gun= no suicide

 

[CPanther95]

So I asked my husband if he could carry outside of new York and he can. But he said he would not carry with his kids in the car since you never know if the gun could go off for some un know reason. We are still taking this trip we will just make sure we stay out of places that do not look safe.

It won't go off unless you pull the trigger.

 

[msjprincess]

So I asked my husband if he could carry outside of new York and he can. But he said he would not carry with his kids in the car since you never know if the gun could go off for some un know reason. We are still taking this trip we will just make sure we stay out of places that do not look safe.

Your husband is a cop and he's worried about a gun going off on it's own? Alrighty then.

 

[Malibustyle23]

So I asked my husband if he could carry outside of new York and he can. But he said he would not carry with his kids in the car since you never know if the gun could go off for some un know reason. We are still taking this trip we will just make sure we stay out of places that do not look safe.

How long has your husband been a police officer?

 

[cornflkgrl]

If the gun is not locked up my kids are not going. We have a gun in our home it is locked in a gun safe and the keys are in a safe place where the kids can not find them.

Do you ask the other parents about their guns? I make it clear I don't want to discuss about their guns/gun rights/etc. I just want to know if they do have guns that they are secured in a locked place while my child is there. Some people.are totally fine with that question. Others act like it is an intrusion.

Sometimes my kid doesn't get invited again and I always wonder if it's because I insisted on asking the questions before he goes over.

 

[bsblady01]

Do you ask the other parents about their guns? I make it clear I don't want to discuss about their guns/gun rights/etc. I just want to know if they do have guns that they are secured in a locked place while my child is there. Some people.are totally fine with that question. Others act like it is an intrusion.

Sometimes my kid doesn't get invited again and I always wonder if it's because I insisted on asking the questions before he goes over.

I do ask if they are locked up and we tell parents that ours are locked up. I have seen so many story's on the news of kids getting to the guns and shooting their friends because they think it is a toy