Safely returning to sailing: "Healthy Sail Panel" recommendations

[T & R]

It would not be unreasonable at this time to not allow such cases on board.

Yes, at this point if you get a postive result on the test, there would be no way to tell who is Covid recovered positive or just straight up positive and contagious. For that reason, all would have to be treated as Covid positive and contagious. Maybe in the future the technology/research will catch up to have more accurate tests but at this point we are where we are, I'd rather the cruise line err on the side of caution.

 

[brentm77]

Yes, at this point if you get a postive result on the test, there would be no way to tell who is Covid recovered positive or just straight up positive and contagious. For that reason, all would have to be treated as Covid positive and contagious. Maybe in the future the technology/research will catch up to have more accurate tests but at this point we are where we are, I'd rather the cruise line err on the side of caution.

A simple change to the number of cycles in the PCR test would go a long way to fix this problem. As the New York Times reported, the PCR test is very unreliable from most labs, because it can take genetic fragments of the virus and amplify them over and over until it looks like a current infection, when is isn't. Apparently the NFL figured that out and tests differently, resulting in more accurate tests. But I don't think cruise companies will use PCR testing, given the need for rapid results. On the other hand, if people are getting their own tests prior to cruising, then this issue needs to be fixed. It really needs to be fixed in any case, because states keep reporting "new" cases that may actually be people who were long ago infected and already recovered.

From what I understand, the rapid test doesn't use the amplification cycles, but is also prone to false positives for other reasons. A rapid test, followed by a second rapid test for positive results, might be the best solution to lower rates of false positives.

 

[JulieBeeRN]

Yep, according to the CDC, you shouldn’t retest anyone who tested positive for 12 weeks.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Again, from a re-start perspective, it's not unreasonable to say "if you have tested positive within 12 weeks we cannot allow you to board even though you are not contagious."

And yes, if someone was asymptomatic then tests positive at port not knowing they'd ever been infected, it would in fact suck for them. But from a cruise perpective that wouldn't be a "recovered case," because since it had never been previously identified that statement could not be made on the basis of the test.

In general, if people are going to try to board cruises for a while, they should get a test before traveling and expect a test at port.

 

[Snowwhyt]

Again, from a re-start perspective, it's not unreasonable to say "if you have tested positive within 12 weeks we cannot allow you to board even though you are not contagious.

But if a person were tested during the onset of their experience they could show the positive test results from the original infection? Would that person be safe to the public? They would right? Just past the contagious period.
I’m not arguing, honestly want to know.

But if you get the vaccine, wouldn’t that show dead antibodies in your system and also make you unavailable to sail?

 

[T & R]

But if you get the vaccine, wouldn’t that show dead antibodies in your system and also make you unavailable to sail?

That is a great question and also a concerning one. I've seen many people say on here that they have upcoming Mar/Apr/May cruises and that they want to get the vaccine as son as it is available. If we all rush out and get vaccines in the Spring, did we essentially just disqualify ourselves from our upcoming cruises or will proof of vaccination override a positive test?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

That is a great question and also a concerning one. I've seen many people say on here that they have upcoming Mar/Apr/May cruises and that they want to get the vaccine as son as it is available. If we all rush out and get vaccines in the Spring, did we essentially just disqualify ourselves from our upcoming cruises or will proof of vaccination override a positive test?

It depends on what the science says about the vaccine and if there is a post-innoculation positive due to the shot.

Given that most of the vaccine candidates are said to be 40-60% protective, though, having had the vaccine isn't going to be a surety of not getting COVID-19, or or not being able to pass it along if you are infected.

I can't see them letting anyone with a positive test, whatever the reason, on board. Which may be complicating depending on how vaccines register to tests. But it opens the lines up to a lot of issues if they don't hardline this.

 

[Starwind]

From what I understand, the rapid test doesn't use the amplification cycles, but is also prone to false positives for other reasons. A rapid test, followed by a second rapid test for positive results, might be the best solution to lower rates of false positives.

My understanding for what MSC is doing is rapid test at the port [results within 15-30 minutes] and if that comes back postive then they do PCR with results in 3-4 hrs; unfortunately by then the ship may have left so if it ends up being negative they will get you to the next port so you can join it. If positive, you are turned over to local authorities and then fall under their procedures for a positive covid case, though MSC has some arrangements there too.

To help with testing, MSC has set up their own lab facilities in port and on the ship.

SW

 

[randumb0]

Welp it looks like the covid test prior to boarding tells you nothing

 

[MomOTwins]

But if a person were tested during the onset of their experience they could show the positive test results from the original infection? Would that person be safe to the public? They would right? Just past the contagious period.
I’m not arguing, honestly want to know.

But if you get the vaccine, wouldn’t that show dead antibodies in your system and also make you unavailable to sail?

Yes, but on the other hand, with known cases of reinfection with a different virus strain months after a first infection, it might not actually mean you a re safe if you test positive months after another positive test.

It reminds me of the silliness about temperature checks at the parks. Pointless to actually protect people since it does nothing to detect asymptomatic spreaders or people who are taking fever-reducing medication, and unfair to people who get a false high temp due to an unrelated condition that causes inflammation/fever. Same with the tests: no guarantee it will protect anyone since you can test negative one day and then become positive/contagious the next if you were exposed in the preceding week. And unfair to people who are fully recovered and not contagious, or who just have a false positive because of imperfect tests.

Just more covid-theater y'all.

 

[monkeydawn]

Welp it looks like the covid test prior to boarding tells you nothing

Incorrect. It tells you about a point in time. Which is what those that follow the actual science have been saying for a very long time now.

 

[teruterubouzu]

Incorrect. It tells you about a point in time. Which is what those that follow the actual science have been saying for a very long time now.

And its only approved by the FDA for testing symptomatic patients.

 

[Snowwhyt]

And its only approved by the FDA for testing symptomatic patients.

Maybe that will keep the liars from taking fever reducers and pretending they don’t have C-19. And keeping the good name of the company instead of a full blown media storm when ship gets home with an absurd amount of cases.

 

[mousefan73]

I learned today that Viking cruises is looking into special airline cooperations involving charter flights. Croatia suppose to be the first destination. The idea is keeping the cruise contained as much as possible for the entire journey.

testing will never be 100% but each measure reduces risk.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think current events show that testing alone isn't a prevention or even a good containment strategy in the absence of distancing and masking and hand washing.

 

[MermaidsMom]

If this is what cruises become I think we have to ask what the point of going is. We go to have fun and laugh and relax, drink, eat and see new things. I cannot imagine masking, avoiding others, testing prior to boarding, etc.
Will we be able to laugh at meals and have stage shows? Wine and mixed drink tastings? Movies? Ice cream cones, unlimited sodas coffees and tea? If not, what exactly will we be doing all day?
Spa days, splash pads, lap blankets?
And please, don’t tell me there are people here who think masks on outside decks are needed?

 

[HiStitch626]

I think that masks on the outside decks would depend on which deck you’re on. There are times for the pool deck is just packed. During the sail away party where people are shoulder to shoulder, and families are all mixed together. During the Muster drill they line up people right next to each other. I get that you’re outside, but you’re awful close to lots of other people.

 

[T & R]

I think that masks on the outside decks would depend on which deck you’re on. There are times for the pool deck is just packed. During the sail away party where people are shoulder to shoulder, and families are all mixed together. During the Muster drill they line up people right next to each other. I get that you’re outside, but you’re awful close to lots of other people.

There's talk that the muster drill will now be on TV from your cabin. On the Dream class you do the drill in the theater, so watching it at the theater or on TV is same difference to me, just obviously safer doing it on TV. As far as the sail way deck party, I think that will be one of many things trimmed off of the cruise until this thing is over.

 

[HiStitch626]

I may be wrong, but I think it’s the law that muster drills have to be in person. Watching a video on TV might help with how to put on the life vest, but it wouldn’t help with you locating your Muster Station.

 

[Starwind]

I may be wrong, but I think it’s the law that muster drills have to be in person. Watching a video on TV might help with how to put on the life vest, but it wouldn’t help with you locating your Muster Station.

One of the cruise lines has created a prototype app where each person would go through the training in your stateroom [I believe through the app or through stateroom tv] and then you would go in person to the muster station to be checked in. So you get the training in your stateroom and then you satisfy the "know where your muster station is and prove it by going to it" part.

It seems like it would be a good balance, though I wonder if everyone would actually pay attention to the training [er, and how many more/less it would be than who actually pay attention to the in person training].

As for the comment about about Dream class... many of the muster stations are in indoor venues like the theatres, but the Dream class ships also have some on deck muster stations.

SW