S/O: Divorce... how to cut down?

[TippyThomas]

It isn't better.

Especially for the kids. I lived in one too many foster homes with terrible, unhappily married people. It was a nightmare.

 

[Southernmiss]

That could be because of the horrible advice given by the Church to remain in abusive marriages?

My aunt was in a physically abusive marriage and the priest advised her to remain in the marriage.

Thankfully she placed her childrens and her own physical safety and mental health above the requirements placed on her by her faith and left her husband.

When she needed her church the most, they let her down. She was told she was a failure and not allowed back in the church. This was in the 80's.

I am so saddened that this was the way then.

Fortunately, the priests I know are much more compassionate and divorces and annulments now happen much easier than in times passed.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

It’s never better. Ever. Had I stayed with my XH my kids wouldn’t be who they are today. They probably would’ve turned out like their cousins on their dad’s side and that makes me shiver a bit.

 

[AustinTink]

I truly believe you have to live with someone for a good period of time before deciding to marry. Religion frowns on that so you have so many people jumping in blindly to married life only to realize they are not as compatible as they thought.

 

[Rogue1677x]

I don't believe staying together for the kids is any good. But then again, my parents had a very volatile divorce, within 3 weeks of my mother being given custody of me and my 2 sisters, it was relinquished to my father.

Personally, I feel like sometimes people just change and it really is irreconcilable differences. My 1st husband and I were very much on the same page about having children, discussed it before getting married, but less than a year after getting married, he changed his mind. He started putting stipulations on when we could have kids and kept moving the goal posts. The last fight we had, he literally was foaming at the mouth, screaming in my face "I'll tell you when we'll have kids!". We divorced shortly after that fight.

I never intended to remarry, but after our daughter was born and was in the NICU, my current husband and I decided we wanted to get married once she was home. We're going strong at over 18 years of marriage.

 

[sam_gordon]

It isn't better.

Especially for the kids. I lived in one too many foster homes with terrible, unhappily married people. It was a nightmare.

It’s never better. Ever. Had I stayed with my XH my kids wouldn’t be who they are today. They probably would’ve turned out like their cousins on their dad’s side and that makes me shiver a bit.

I didn't express myself well. Everything else being equal, I feel kids are better off with two parents in the home. That doesn't mean I think children from single parent households are worse off or that people should stay in bad relationships.

 

[TippyThomas]

I didn't express myself well. Everything else being equal, I feel kids are better off with two parents in the home. That doesn't mean I think children from single parent households are worse off or that people should stay in bad relationships.

I kinda figured that, all things considered. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[kdonnel]

Catholic?

Yes.

 

[TCRAIG]

Married for 43 years til my husband passed away last year - I always told him I might kill him but I would never divorce him! In all seriousness, was it always sweet roses? NOPE - Sometimes it was just manure - lots of times I was ready to call it quits when I would remember that I made a sacred vow and admit that I did love him and knew he loved me and we were just going to have to get thru whatever speed bumps we hit. Both of us were determined to make our marriage last and that we were better, stronger individuals as a couple than we would be by ourselves…we knew thru thick or thin, we always had each others back…we knew we could not solved each others problems but we could share them…or at least listen. I think what helped is that we were both college grads and already had careers and not super young (I was 24 when we married and he was 33). I’m Catholic and wanted to be married in my church, so we had to have pre-Canaan counseling where the priest asked us to think about and discuss with each other (not him) what our goals were as both individuals and as a couple - how did we want to handle our finances, where our respective families fit in our relationship, did we want kids, etc. luckily for us, we chose well and neither of us cheated or did drugs or were abusive or anything like that. Those would have been absolute deal breakers.

 

[Allison]

I didn't express myself well. Everything else being equal, I feel kids are better off with two parents in the home. That doesn't mean I think children from single parent households are worse off or that people should stay in bad relationships.

I knew what you meant but don't believe it is better to have two parents in the home if they aren't happy. People should not stay married because of children because their intent backfires.

 

[MillauFr]

I knew what you meant but don't believe it is better to have two parents in the home if they aren't happy. People should not stay married because of children because their intent backfires.

I think you both are correct. Thanks to Sam for clarifying his thoughts.

 

[disykat]

I wish there was some sort of mandatory "mini counseling" paperwork you had to fill out prior to getting a marriage license. The absolute best part of the pre marriage stuff we did with our minister was a non-religious form he handed us and said "fill it out separately and then compare answers." It was a form with questions anything from "are you going to have pets?" "who is cleaning up their messes?" to "how many children do you want?" "how many times a week will you have sex?" "who will cook?" "who will vacuum?" "do you want to own a home?""will you attend religious services?""how much of your income do you want to save?" "will you spend the holidays with extended family and who?" etc. etc. It was multiple pages long.

We filled it out separately and then compared. We actually matched pretty well on our answers, and it gave us a chance to discuss things that didn't match. No one saw it but us, but if we could require a "filled out and discussed the marriage checklist" box to be checked, maybe it would at least make an effort to have people to think about some of these things before becoming legally entwined.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Yes.

The Catholic Church has definitely shifted more compassionately than in the 1980's.

 

[Buzz Rules]

I am so saddened that this was the way then.

Fortunately, the priests I know are much more compassionate and divorces and annulments now happen much easier than in times passed.

 

[mom2rtk]

That could be because of the horrible advice given by the Church to remain in abusive marriages?

My aunt was in a physically abusive marriage and the priest advised her to remain in the marriage.

Thankfully she placed her childrens and her own physical safety and mental health above the requirements placed on her by her faith and left her husband.

When she needed her church the most, they let her down. She was told she was a failure and not allowed back in the church. This was in the 80's.

So 40 years ago. Is the Church still advising abuse victims to stay married?

 

[mom2rtk]

I truly believe you have to live with someone for a good period of time before deciding to marry. Religion frowns on that so you have so many people jumping in blindly to married life only to realize they are not as compatible as they thought.

I have heavily encouraged my kids to live with their partner before marrying. My mother would have been mortified.

 

[Buzz Rules]

So 40 years ago. Is the Church still advising abuse victims to stay married?

No. The Church allows them to separate under cannon law.

 

[Buzz Rules]

So 40 years ago. Is the Church still advising abuse victims to stay married?

"According to Catholic marriage law, a spouse experiencing abuse, whether physical, emotional, or psychological, has a legitimate reason to leave the marriage and is not considered to be in sin for doing so; the Church considers the safety of the abused person paramount, even if it means seeking a civil divorce to ensure personal protection, although a Catholic would still need an annulment to remarry in the Church.
Key points about abuse in Catholic marriage law:
Grave danger clause:
Canon Law 1153 states that if a spouse causes "grave danger of soul or body" to the other, it provides a legitimate reason to leave the marriage.
No obligation to stay:
The Church does not require a person to remain in an abusive marriage, and leaving is considered morally permissible to protect oneself and children.
Seeking help:
An abused person should seek support from their pastor, a church counselor, or other appropriate professionals.
Annulment process:
If an abused person decides to seek a civil divorce, they can still pursue an annulment from the Catholic Church to be free to remarry within the Church, depending on the circumstances of the marriage."

From Google AI.

 

[sam_gordon]

I knew what you meant but don't believe it is better to have two parents in the home if they aren't happy. People should not stay married because of children because their intent backfires.

As I said, I don't think people should stay in a bad relationship, and that's regardless of whether they have kids. So no, I don't think a couple should stay together "for the kids".

My goal with the thread is to discuss ways that divorce isn't thought of an option. How do we make more "divorce free" marriages that DONT involve forcing people to stay together against their will? What's different between successful and unsuccessful marriages? Is it because people don't understand that marriages are work? Is it because people don't know not everything will be sunshine and roses? How do people learn that? Presumably BEFORE they exchange vows?

 

[Buzz Rules]

@sam_gordon , do you think this thread should be moved to the controversial board?