Run Over BY ECV

Dha, wouldn't be here if I was bored!
Your missing OUR point on how heated these debates get and how DIS has become too PC over the years and have closed threads down. I just got a warning for my signature GMAB!
Shocked you have been on for many years and have not picked up on our point. but with only 60+ posts I don't know how often you visit:confused3

Wait a minute, are you baiting Robo?

i understand the point, i don't care for it, but i understand it. and i assume the same of you. i don't see this a a pc debate, but that some lack emphathy for others and their situation to the point of criticism

i enjoy going to disney, but i don't go often, last visit was in 2001. i've gotten back on the board as we're going again this fall and it is great for planning. i guess my dearth of posts it is due to other interests
 
Why can't CM's take a few minutes with each person and teach them the basics - make them practice driving for a couple minutes?

I am an absolute genius. You all are going to love me for this. Why not, OK are your ready? Why not turn the Tomorrowland Speedway, since it's kind of on the low end of the totem pole as far as a must do, in to a ECV training course? Set up a rental area beside the speedway and when you've successfully completed the course you can rent your ECV?
 
i understand the point, i don't care for it, but i understand it. and i assume the same of you. i don't see this a a pc debate, but that some lack emphathy for others and their situation to the point of criticism

i enjoy going to disney, but i don't go often, last visit was in 2001. i've gotten back on the board as we're going again this fall and it is great for planning. i guess my dearth of posts it is due to other interests

Other interests, good for you!
Your post about us is as useless as ours, the only difference is we know it and mock it.
Thank you for participating.:rotfl2:
Congratulations have been officially baited!

You see their is no winner in this and we know it, there never will be. The only positive is the free flow of ideas and opinions. However only one has the power to stop it "the MOD" and some of us have felt the wrath:eek:. We post, that we are not posting to make the point. Sorry you got caught up in it but that is OK. No hard feelings?

This debate will rage on only as long as it is allowed. The same subjects come up. the overweight card, the "I'm to good to pass judgment," or my favorite "You aren't a doctor how would you know." As if nobody has ever made a snap judgment regardless if it is correct or not. We have seen it all before. The ECV users feel the need to justify their use. (which always puzzles me) And the walkers try like Heck to get them to admit they are a danger and are operated by fakes.

Like someone posted earlier it is not black and white. Some people need them, no question, and some people don't. There are some in the middle who might miss a few things if they had to walk and there are some who could probably get away with a standard wheel chair which is more pedestrian and bus friendly but would make them tiered or soar. Note to all ECV users. WE WALKERS ARE ALL TIRED AND SORE AT THE END OF THE DAY. ITS OK TO BE THIS WAY.

You see we are taught from a very young age to be the "bigger person" don't pass judgment, criticizing is wrong, but we all do it, nobody is a better person because they post "this debate is childish and selfish" it may make them feel good about themselves but it in its self is a childish and selfish statement. We laugh at the hypocrisy and fuel it in our own twisted way. It's not the EVC debate that is killing us, it is the fact that if you speak your mind and it is not the touchy feely PC post you will get flamed. If you flame back, then it is wrong.

See, what always gets me about this debate is nobody ever brings up the big picture. I have a friend who walks a mile a day because he can. At 52 he has had 2 knees and a hip. Like someone mentioned before it was because of sports. He didn't have the for-site to realize who much damage he was causing himself when he was 12:rotfl2: . Or when he was drafted by the Reds at 18.
He would never use an ECV even if he needed it, he is to proud (or stupid) He was off his crutches in 6 weeks after his hip replacement. Those who really need EVCs deserve to be mad at the fakers as well as the walkers. Not just because they run over people or they can't get on a boat or because the EVC takes up a row of seats on the bus. Its because fakers trivialise disabilities. Again, I am talking all fakers. Ones that tell themselves they need a ECV but really could use a standard chair that travels with the speed of traffic. People who say they can get around OK but need the ECV for the shows because the benches are uncomfortable. I find them uncomfortable too.

That is why I post stupid things like "I just want to see my new avatar." Its all in the hidden message.

one more thing
I think the only reason this debate is even still open is because the Mods don't want to appear to be baited into locking it up.



one more thing
Please disregard this post as I am not posting!
 
I started to post, but realized my post might be a bit off-topic, so I'm not posting after-all.
 

I have not read the rest of the responses. Aisles should be bigger and stores shouldn't be crammed with so much crap to enable EVERYONE to be able to shop in every aisle.
 
Note to Spectro;for someone that isn't posting you babble an awfull lot. Maybe take a few lessons from Robo? He's got it down perfectly.


Robo; haven't come up with a good joke about ecv's in the bathrooms yet? I've been waiting too long allready for that, can't stand the tension, put me out of my misery will you? :lmao:


Michigan, you probably don't mean it this way (or at least not the way I read your posting), but watch out not to judge a book on it's cover or in this case a rented aid. You know what it feels like to be judged or worse. It's human nature to have thoughts but it's also the human to be able to think about that first thought and correct themselves where needed. Why be upset with 1st row being filled with rented chairs? Everybody is in title to the best spot, nobody of us is any more "worthy" than the other. A rented aid isn't a sign for "less disabled person than me/my kid/my partner etc.". You know one can't judge a book by it's cover. You must have run into those unknowing people saying "but your child looks so cute, such a shame", as if a disability would "pick" a person by the way they look. You know from first hand experience how untrue such a way of thinking is.

Let me tell you a story about renting aids. I've had my own chairs for over 7 years now (how time flies). I had to make the switch to a pwc last year. Did that, have my own pwc (second actually), but it "just" isn't ordered proparely and therefor I can't use it. At home I can't manage without it, and at the World it'll only be a lot worse. For a long time it looked like there was no change of getting at least the work needed to go to WDW done. That would mean me having to rent an ecv and spend about 25% of the time I can spend at the parks etc compared to when I were to use a pwc. For some weird (it shocked me anyway) reason the standard ecv for rent works better for my body than a rented pwc, go figure! It's only 17 more days before I get on the plane to Orlando, :yay: but still the chair is no way near done. It's been promissed, but that has been done about a dozen times before and none of those promisses have been kept. There still is a change of me having to go without my pwc and renting an ecv. You would see me in a rented ecv if that were to happen and you are at the world in september. You would feel upset if I were in the first row in that rented ecv, but you wouldn't if you run into me, same show, same first row but in my own pwc. See where I'm getting at? The book can't be judged by it's cover and getting upset over such a thing doesn't make your day any better. See how silly it is for you to get all upset over me in the rented ecv on first row, while in "normall" life you wouldn't be upset about me? Might just be there are more of those folks out there and you getting upset over nothing, also in your book. Save yourself the pain, just shrug your shoulder over it and that's it. Getting upset over these things can ruin your day. Don't let it have that power. Even if it were a faker, you know what? They definately aren't worth you getting upset over and giving them the power to ruin your day. We'll deal with the fakers in another way, don't let these things affect your stay at the world.


We all want/need the best seat in the house. We're only human after all. But it's the same for us as for those "TAB"s (love that term!) out there. If you want a certain spot; get in early. You need a specific seat or no deal? Get an GAC and still get there early (because there can be somebody with the same needs there before you, and if there's only one of that very specific needed spots........)

If I'm sitting there, I'm sitting there and won't be giving up my place for someone else. If the places I can get into are full; too bad for me, I'll have to come back another time. If I see a small child in his/her manual chair behind me in my powerchair? I'm all for switching my place with them, after all; I can look over them and no way a 6 year old will be able to look over an adult pwc. Just don't expect me to be too accomodating if I find out this switching will mean a whole big family getting in front of me with a very large dad, mom, uncle, who-ever standing right in front of me. I'll be one of the first to switch with the kids, I can understand parents not wanting (or medically allways being able) to leave a younger child alone, even if it is one row between but I would also like some of the same consideration. Let one adult get upfront with them, the rest around/behind them. It might not be the most accomodating, but it would be VERY appreciated if that adult has the empathy to sit or chrunch down/ position themselves in such a way I can look over them/they don't block my view. Hack, I'm even known for my habit of taking a little one onto my lap even if it does hurt like hell to give them a change to also see things.

We can't judge eachothers disability. For you it might seem like a breeze to make a transfer if the "only" cost of it is pain. For others it might seem like a breeze to make a transfer if one is paralized from the waist down (as in "just" take a transferboard with you, and there you go"). Neither means it's a fact that either is a breeze. And even if someone were to have a "lesser" disability than me when we look at it from a medical point of few, that doesn't give me the right to judge them on that. For that person, their "lesser" disability may just be like the world is going to stop. Sure, some good realistic views on life are great for living a live with peace of mind and I might just start a conversation with them about the different ways of dealing with and looking at these life-changing things, but it's not op to me to judge. In a way, I am the lucky one of these two. I might be "more" disabled, but at least I'm in a place where my world hasn't come to a stop. I much rather have a "worse" disability and be able to deal with it, than have a "lesser" disability and fighting it.
 
Note to Spectro;for someone that isn't posting you babble an awfull lot. Maybe take a few lessons from Robo? He's got it down perfectly.


Robo; haven't come up with a good joke about ecv's in the bathrooms yet? I've been waiting too long allready for that, can't stand the tension, put me out of my misery will you? :lmao:


Michigan, you probably don't mean it this way (or at least not the way I read your posting), but watch out not to judge a book on it's cover or in this case a rented aid. You know what it feels like to be judged or worse. It's human nature to have thoughts but it's also the human to be able to think about that first thought and correct themselves where needed. Why be upset with 1st row being filled with rented chairs? Everybody is in title to the best spot, nobody of us is any more "worthy" than the other. A rented aid isn't a sign for "less disabled person than me/my kid/my partner etc.". You know one can't judge a book by it's cover. You must have run into those unknowing people saying "but your child looks so cute, such a shame", as if a disability would "pick" a person by the way they look. You know from first hand experience how untrue such a way of thinking is.

Let me tell you a story about renting aids. I've had my own chairs for over 7 years now (how time flies). I had to make the switch to a pwc last year. Did that, have my own pwc (second actually), but it "just" isn't ordered proparely and therefor I can't use it. At home I can't manage without it, and at the World it'll only be a lot worse. For a long time it looked like there was no change of getting at least the work needed to go to WDW done. That would mean me having to rent an ecv and spend about 25% of the time I can spend at the parks etc compared to when I were to use a pwc. For some weird (it shocked me anyway) reason the standard ecv for rent works better for my body than a rented pwc, go figure! It's only 17 more days before I get on the plane to Orlando, :yay: but still the chair is no way near done. It's been promissed, but that has been done about a dozen times before and none of those promisses have been kept. There still is a change of me having to go without my pwc and renting an ecv. You would see me in a rented ecv if that were to happen and you are at the world in september. You would feel upset if I were in the first row in that rented ecv, but you wouldn't if you run into me, same show, same first row but in my own pwc. See where I'm getting at? The book can't be judged by it's cover and getting upset over such a thing doesn't make your day any better. See how silly it is for you to get all upset over me in the rented ecv on first row, while in "normall" life you wouldn't be upset about me? Might just be there are more of those folks out there and you getting upset over nothing, also in your book. Save yourself the pain, just shrug your shoulder over it and that's it. Getting upset over these things can ruin your day. Don't let it have that power. Even if it were a faker, you know what? They definately aren't worth you getting upset over and giving them the power to ruin your day. We'll deal with the fakers in another way, don't let these things affect your stay at the world.


We all want/need the best seat in the house. We're only human after all. But it's the same for us as for those "TAB"s (love that term!) out there. If you want a certain spot; get in early. You need a specific seat or no deal? Get an GAC and still get there early (because there can be somebody with the same needs there before you, and if there's only one of that very specific needed spots........)

If I'm sitting there, I'm sitting there and won't be giving up my place for someone else. If the places I can get into are full; too bad for me, I'll have to come back another time. If I see a small child in his/her manual chair behind me in my powerchair? I'm all for switching my place with them, after all; I can look over them and no way a 6 year old will be able to look over an adult pwc. Just don't expect me to be too accomodating if I find out this switching will mean a whole big family getting in front of me with a very large dad, mom, uncle, who-ever standing right in front of me. I'll be one of the first to switch with the kids, I can understand parents not wanting (or medically allways being able) to leave a younger child alone, even if it is one row between but I would also like some of the same consideration. Let one adult get upfront with them, the rest around/behind them. It might not be the most accomodating, but it would be VERY appreciated if that adult has the empathy to sit or chrunch down/ position themselves in such a way I can look over them/they don't block my view. Hack, I'm even known for my habit of taking a little one onto my lap even if it does hurt like hell to give them a change to also see things.

We can't judge eachothers disability. For you it might seem like a breeze to make a transfer if the "only" cost of it is pain. For others it might seem like a breeze to make a transfer if one is paralized from the waist down (as in "just" take a transferboard with you, and there you go"). Neither means it's a fact that either is a breeze. And even if someone were to have a "lesser" disability than me when we look at it from a medical point of few, that doesn't give me the right to judge them on that. For that person, their "lesser" disability may just be like the world is going to stop. Sure, some good realistic views on life are great for living a live with peace of mind and I might just start a conversation with them about the different ways of dealing with and looking at these life-changing things, but it's not op to me to judge. In a way, I am the lucky one of these two. I might be "more" disabled, but at least I'm in a place where my world hasn't come to a stop. I much rather have a "worse" disability and be able to deal with it, than have a "lesser" disability and fighting it.

Ya I babble too muchthat's a good one (how many words are in your post):rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: I should learn from Robo:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:
your the best! Keep the hypocrisy rolling
thanks for making my point
 
Let's read the whole first line, Spectro. You babble too much for somebody claiming not to say anything.

If you think I made your point; I'm glad to be able to help and return the favour.

And he! I'm a female, we use more words than men, we're intitle to it.
 
Let's stay on topic here and keep the personal stuff out of it please.

Thanks,

Knox
 
Let's read the whole first line, Spectro. You babble too much for somebody claiming not to say anything.

If you think I made your point; I'm glad to be able to help and return the favour.

And he! I'm a female, we use more words than men, we're intitle to it.

You win:thumbsup2
 
Let's try to stay on topic here please.

This thread has been fairly civil to date. Directly personal comments is a sure way to end this discussion. :confused3

Thanks,

Knox

Let's stay on topic here and keep the personal stuff out of it please.

Thanks,

Knox


So of all things that have been posted (some of which were pretty harsh) the only 2 warnings that came up were after MY 2 posts.
Coincidence? HMMM:rolleyes1

No wonder why I have a complex.:lmao:
 
...........
You see their is no winner in this and we know it, there never will be. The only positive is the free flow of ideas and opinions. Like someone posted earlier it is not black and white. Some people need them, no question, and some people don't. .......Please disregard this post as I am not posting!

There may be no winners (in the way I think you are referring) in this debate because like you said it is not black and white.

We can learn about other's feelings and try to understand what each of us can do to help make a visit to Disney more pleasant for all of all of us.

Michigan posted that if those who are able would transfer out of the WC / ECV into a regular seat at a show it would help leave spaces for those who need to stay in a WC / EVC.

There are shows that have the hard benches with no back as KPeveler pointed out that she would be unable to sit on.

But there are shows like Muppets and HISTA that have the regular seats where those of us able to walk a few feet could park our WC / EVCs against the back wall and transfer thus leaving more spaces for those who are unable.

Did you know that the Mermaid show only has 7 spaces for WC/EVC's?

MICHIGAN needs 2 of those space for her daughters. Even if she is only behind about 50 people waiting in line if there are 6 guests who use the WC/EVC spots then she will need to step aside and let a hundred or so able bodied guests go into show while she has to wait with her DD for the next show.

So sometimes when we read these threads we can learn.

Just my 2 cents
 
MICHIGAN needs 2 of those space for her daughters. Even if she is only behind about 50 people waiting in line if there are 6 guests who use the WC/ECV spots then she will need to step aside and let a hundred or so able bodied guests go into show while she has to wait with her DD for the next show.

So sometimes when we read these threads we can learn.

Just my 2 cents

Thank you Linda for seeing it through my kids eyes. By the way we did have to wait for the second show when they had just started seating people and would have had to wait for the 3rd but after telling the CM that they needed to stay in their Disney wheelchairs and ECV while getting mad because of being told they would have to wait in the wheelchair waiting area all but one person in front of us started yelling this is unfair then got up and walked in making room for us in the 2nd show because they walked into the 1st.
 
.....We all want/need the best seat in the house. We're only human after all. But it's the same for us as for those "TAB"s (love that term!) out there. If you want a certain spot; get in early. You need a specific seat or no deal? Get an GAC and still get there early (because there can be somebody with the same needs there before you, and if there's only one of that very specific needed spots........)

Just an FYI

There are very few shows that have front row seating for WC/ECV guests at Disney.Lion King has seating in the front area since WC/EVCs cannot climb steps very well. Beauty and the Beast has both front row seats and seats at the back and I think Fantasmic and /or Lights, Motors Action might have some in front (not sure since I have always been directed to go to back area.)

Most of WC/ EVC seating is at the back of the shows.
I think
Honey I Shrunk the Audience, Muppets,Mickey's PhilharMagic,American Adventure, Voyage of the Little Mermaid, One Man's Dream,It's Tough To Be A Bug, Indiana Jones, Sounds Dangerous, all have their WC/ECV seating at the back.

I do not mind sitting at the back. At least these shows have been made accessible.

I just want to be able to have to the access and the opportunity to enjoy Disney.

Just my 2 cents.

Have fun at Disney!:wizard:
 
Linda, I haven't got a clue where the wc-spots are, as I'm still a virgin when it comes to WDW. I went with Michigans statement about "row in front of me". Looks like this will only be the case during parades?

Back, front, left, right; who cares? As long as I can see and don't need to transfer, I'm a happy camper allready.

Looks like you'll be taking over the having fun part just as I'm almost leaving. Good luck with those last days counting down!
 
We can learn about other's feelings and try to understand what each of us can do to help make a visit to Disney more pleasant for all of all of us.

Yes, that is what I meant by the exchange if ideas you just simplified it to the point of learning.

Bringing up the point of VOTML only having 6 spots is brilliant. I forgot about that.

But once you transfer out of the ECV to a seat the circle is complete, people view you as not needing it. It will never end:rotfl2:

I must stop posting before I get into more trouble:sad2:
 
Thank you Linda for seeing it through my kids eyes. By the way we did have to wait for the second show when they had just started seating people and would have had to wait for the 3rd but after telling the CM that they needed to stay in their Disney wheelchairs and ECV while getting mad because of being told they would have to wait in the wheelchair waiting area all but one person in front of us started yelling this is unfair then got up and walked in making room for us in the 2nd show because they walked into the 1st.

:hug: to you and your DD's.

I am sorry that happened and that your DD's had to see those guests behaving so badly.
I think most of the guests do not realize how limited the seating is for the WC/ECV.
( DH and I let the CM's know that I can park my EVC and walk about 50 feet or so to a seat if there is room nearby to park my scooter.)
Perhaps Disney should the post the # of spaces available for WC/EVC for each show on a sign stating it would be appriciated if those who could walk a short distance please sit in the seat. It might help keep some these bad sceans from happening--Than again maybe not. Who reads the signs anyway?:confused3


Have fun planning your next Disney vacation!
 
Yes, that is what I meant by the exchange if ideas you just simplified it to the point of learning.

Bringing up the point of VOTML only having 6 spots is brilliant. I forgot about that.

But once you transfer out of the ECV to a seat the circle is complete, people view you as not needing it. It will never end:rotfl2:

I must stop posting before I get into more trouble:sad2:


Yes, Getting out of my ECV to get on ride or take a seat did make others think I did not need it.

Yes, I have been judged. Maybe some guests do rent EVC for convience. If they did I think after the first day they would find out what a real pain they are. There is no front of the line advantage. Most of the attractions we wait just as long as able bodied guests or longer. We sit at the back of most of the shows. I think sometimes we become invisable to other guests since many walk right in our way as if we are not there. Of coure we become very visable when it is time for us load onto a bus!

Here is a quote from SueMinMN from the disabilities board:


Quote:
Originally Posted by SueM in MN
Most of the lines at WDW are wheelchair accessible, so there are very few situations where someone actually goes thru a wheelchair entrance.



One of the other things that people who don't use wheelchairs don't know is where people with wheelchairs go when they are taken out of the line. They assume those people who 'disappear' from the line are boarding right away, but that is not usually the case.
If they can't board at the regular boarding spot, they are pulled out of the line - usually just before the regular line gets to the boarding area.
For example, at Buzz Lightyear, the 'pull off point' is after you have gone thru the room with the large Buzz Lightyear, near the point where regular line is beginning to enter the actual boarding area. Guests with wheelchairs/ ECVs are pulled out of line at that point and sent to the exit - not to board right away, but to wait. If there are too many people with disabilities already on the attraction, you have to wait for some to get off (for fire safetly and evacuation reasons). Because our DD can't get out of her wheelchair easily, we have to wait extra for a special car that the wheelchair can be loaded on. We usually see the people who were right ahead of us in line getting off after riding while we are still waiting to board.

The Safari at AK is notorious for extra waits for people with disabilities. Our longest wait there was an EXTRA 40 minutes at a time when the regular line was walk on and Safari Trams were pulling out partially loaded because people were not walking up fast enough to fill them.

Spaceship Earth is a ride with a handicapped entrance, but during times when other passengers are able to walk right on, our wait is usually 20-30 minutes.
So, is this fair??????


-------------------------------------------------------
After I became disabled and had to use an EVC at Disney I found a lot of guests stared me and made snide remarks that I was "cheating" because I was able to get up off the scooter and walk a few feet to get on a ride.

They did not know that yes, I do have limited mobility but it is very limited (iI have a spinal disorder and I can walk 50-100 feet before my legs would go numb and would buckle beneath me).

It really did sadden me that others who did not know my situation would judge me.

So I went home and did a little problem solving.

Now when I go to Disney I feel a little better because......

I found somthing that makes me more at ease using an EVC at Disney .....

I have a handicapped hang tag .(BTW in order to receive one in Michigan I had to take a form to my MD to fill out. They are not given to just anyone who asks for one.)

I took the hang tag and made a photo copy on a magnetic printer sheet.

I cut the tag out. Then I used a hole punch to punch holes in the 4 corners than used some DIS green curling ribbon to tie the hang tag to the basket of my EVC.

It helped me feel a little more comfortable.

Have fun planning your next Disney Vacation!
 

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