Run Over By An EVC

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Yeah, same goes for all motor vehicles! If some pedestrian jumps in front of my vehicle, and I hit him, then it's all my fault! That's what "right of way" means!

Yes, that is the point I was trying to make.

 

[bfeller]

I totally understand about the walkways but really that is in a perfect world. On the trails (bike/walk) trails around here in Ohio they are also lined so that people know to stay to the right and they also say passing on the left. Unfortunately, that is not the option at WDW.

I am just saying that from experience as a walker, a mom who pushed a stroller and a person who had to use the ECV that all three are completely different. I also didn't have one of the speedy EVC's. I rented them at the park that I was at that day. To me what you are saying is like comparing walking to rollerblading or biking to walking. They are not the same.

I understand that we, in motorized vehicles, are suppose to yield to pedestrians, I also know that that the pedestrian needs to use sound and responsible judgment and follow the rules/laws that are made for them, such as walking toward traffic and not with it. I have never heard of anyone getting sited for hitting a person who walked out into traffic while not within the crosswalk or at a corner. That is simply called an accident.

 

[Dubb]

Yes, that is the point I was trying to make.

I know.

 

[carmiedog]

For the Seinfield fans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csuZHyW-iGI

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

I have never heard of anyone getting sited for hitting a person who walked out into traffic while not within the crosswalk or at a corner. That is simply called an accident.

I know of people being criminally charged for hitting pedestrians who were jaywalking, actually. But I have never heard of someone being cited for jaywalking when they were hit by a car.

I know.

No need for the sarcastic smilie. I was agreeing with you.

 

[Mrs. Pookie]

We were also eating at the Plaza the one day and sitting by the doors. The greeter opened the door for a family and out of nowhere an ECV came FLYING into the restaurant. I have never seen one move that fast, it must of had a fresh charge or been souped up Anyway, it crashed head on into a table right inside the door. The lady calmly backed up (dragging a chair with her that was caught on it) and then zoomed off towards her table. The chair fell off a few feet away. Luckily no one was sitting at that first table. You had to be there, but it was seriously the funniest thing we have ever seen at Disney You cannot imagine the speed of it and how unexpected it was. And it didn't even faze the driver......

LOL I totally got a visual of that. Too funny!

 

[Dubb]

And I was being sarcastic to begin with. Your point of view is flawed. While the pedestrian always has the right of way, that does not give them carte blanche to jump in front of a car and blame the driver.

As for hitting a jaywalker, of course it's the driver's fault if he had time to react. Determing who is "at fault" of an accident is not always about who was and who was not breaking the law.

 

[marsrunner]

Pardon me if this has been posted, but why exactly do these things in a theme park setting even go faster than 2 or 3 mph? I can't believe they couldn't control that because I'm sure they could get them special ordered from the manufacturer and get a bulk discount.
My late mother had MS and she used one. Never ran into anyone with it though. And as others have said, whoever is driving the ECV is responsible for whatever happens, just like if you were driving a car. However, Disney should not even allow those things to go faster than walking speed.

 

[Twitterpated Dad]

Pardon me if this has been posted, but why exactly do these things in a theme park setting even go faster than 2 or 3 mph? I can't believe they couldn't control that because I'm sure they could get them special ordered from the manufacturer and get a bulk discount.
My late mother had MS and she used one. Never ran into anyone with it though. And as others have said, whoever is driving the ECV is responsible for whatever happens, just like if you were driving a car. However, Disney should not even allow those things to go faster than walking speed.

I've been saying exactly that all afternoon. Thanks!

 

[krismom]

"You're already sitting down so just relax."

tag fairy, where are you?!

 

[glenpreece]

Last year my DH and I were walking to Soaring when all of a sudden a man on a ECV literally ran over a small boy! His scooter was on top of him and could not move. He still was trying to go and his ECV was going further up the boys legs and back. My DH rushed over and lifted the scooter by the front handles while the parents went and grabbed the boy. Believe it or not, while lifting the evc off the ground the man was still trying to go, and the wheels were going full speed! Very scary!

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chip_and_Dales_Girl]

Pardon me if this has been posted, but why exactly do these things in a theme park setting even go faster than 2 or 3 mph? I can't believe they couldn't control that because I'm sure they could get them special ordered from the manufacturer and get a bulk discount.
My late mother had MS and she used one. Never ran into anyone with it though. And as others have said, whoever is driving the ECV is responsible for whatever happens, just like if you were driving a car. However, Disney should not even allow those things to go faster than walking speed.

But who determines walking speed? Everyone walks at different paces. And believe me, the ECVs that Disney rents out HAVE been slowed down. I've talked to people at Disney about this. They used to move much faster when they first got the new ones. Many of the ECVs that zoom at high speeds are in fact rented through outside companies or brought from the person's own home. Disney, can't control this obviously and is doing what they can to help some of the speed.

All in all you are going to have ECV drivers that know what they are doing and ECV drivers that do not. Same with everything else. While people can complain and huff and puff about those that do not know how to drive, perhaps we can all just keep an eye out for those drivers that don't know what they are doing. Because even with an orientation, it's not going to stop the rude or reckless drivers.

And yes, I do drive an ECV since I have a disability. I've never ran into anyone, or anything for that matter.

 

[marsrunner]

The average walking speed is determined by the average person's walking speed...which is 2 to 3 miles per hour. That's pretty much a scientific fact.
I can't imagine that Disney even lets outside scooters in the park...that seems like a huge liability issue. Perhaps there are legal ramifications I'm unaware of, but why not just have ECV owners leave theirs at the front gate (in some kind of lockup area, obviously) and issue them a park owned one in its place?
Frankly I think its incredibly unreasonable to think that people should "look out" for people driving these things recklessly. There is too much stimulation for you to even be able to pay attention to that, especially if you have little ones with you. Its usually no big deal if someone bumps into you and rarely a big deal if someone hits you with a stroller, but on average those aren't moving nearly as fast as some of these scooters.
I don't know, they need to have them, and believe me I have sympathy for those that do need them, but my sympathy does not extend to absolving EVC drivers from responsibility should they hit any member of my family, or anyone else for that matter. You are driving a motorized cart in a sea of pedestrians...there is no right of way; as someone said earlier, its like driving a car on the sidewalk.
The important thing to remember is that I'm (and others) are not talking about 99% of the people using these things; however, the 1% that are behaving this way need to be dealt with in some fashion.

 

[rrkman]

But who determines walking speed? Everyone walks at different paces. And believe me, the ECVs that Disney rents out HAVE been slowed down. I've talked to people at Disney about this. They used to move much faster when they first got the new ones. Many of the ECVs that zoom at high speeds are in fact rented through outside companies or brought from the person's own home. Disney, can't control this obviously and is doing what they can to help some of the speed.

All in all you are going to have ECV drivers that know what they are doing and ECV drivers that do not. Same with everything else. While people can complain and huff and puff about those that do not know how to drive, perhaps we can all just keep an eye out for those drivers that don't know what they are doing. Because even with an orientation, it's not going to stop the rude or reckless drivers.

And yes, I do drive an ECV since I have a disability. I've never ran into anyone, or anything for that matter.

I agree with what you are saying but this isn't about knowing how to use on or not....this is about respecting others. I can accept someone needing one and having someproblems operating it but....

if you run into a table, don't just drive away.
if you run into someone, apologize....and if I run into you, I'll apologize.
if you don't know how to use something, learn before you hurt someone...accidently running into someone might be ok, but running over a little kid and still going forward while the kid is stuck under = not ok.
wait your turn, every chance I get, I try to respect and help people (especially those that may have it a little harder than myself)...but don't expect people to clear the entire road for you and change their vacation just because you are in a ECV.
if you have problems using one and know that they don't have brakes (which is absolutely crazy - some of our strollers even have brakes)....drive at a safe speed and don't tailgate (for lack of a better term).

And ChipandDalesGirl, this wasn't directed towards you but when I'm walking down main street, I don't expect everyone to watch out for me (especially if I have a stroller) so why should I be expected to watch out for others....I would like to see the park as well. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of things to look at and everyone runs into things....just say excuse me and go about your merry way.

 

[Clotho]

Frankly I think its incredibly unreasonable to think that people should "look out" for people driving these things recklessly. There is too much stimulation for you to even be able to pay attention to that, especially if you have little ones with you.
...
I have sympathy for those that do need them, but my sympathy does not extend to absolving ECV drivers from responsibility should they hit any member of my family, or anyone else for that matter. You are driving a motorized cart in a sea of pedestrians...there is no right of way; as someone said earlier, its like driving a car on the sidewalk.

Not a single person has said that we should absolve all the reckless drivers. We are in fact arguing about the opposite: reckless walkers! People who will thoughtlessly dive in front of ECV's, and the fact that some people here think that it is still the ECV's fault if that happens. I am amazed at this.

And have to say, I do not consider it driving a car on a sidewalk. I consider them "motorized legs". It is callous to dismiss what a difficulty it is to be confined to a wheelchair or ECV, when I guarantee you that a majority of the riders (and we know "the type" who are *not* included in this) would much rather be walking. So try to be a little sympathetic to the difficulty and inconvenience tied up in that experience.

I will agree that an ECV driver must be MORE aware and MORE defensive than pedestrians are. But that does not absolve thoughtless walkers from their part in some of the ankle-bumping that happens...

The important thing to remember is that I'm (and others) are not talking about 99% of the people using these things; however, the 1% that are behaving this way need to be dealt with in some fashion.

I hear ya. And I appreciate your saying this, I really do.

In general (not in response to you specifically masrunner), I have to wonder how many people who are attributing full and complete responsibility on the shoulders of the ECV drivers...have ever been forced to use one for any reason. Where you could not walk, and had to spend a day in a crowded park trying to navigate The World. Walk a mile in those shoes/ride a mile on those wheels, and then I might like to hear more on your perspective. Because I guarantee you I was not so far on "this side" of the issue until my one day on my last trip. It was really eye-opening.

 

[tink too]

I can only imagine how difficult ECV's are to manoeuvre - especially in a crowded space. I would definately appreciate a little tuition in how to operate and ECV if I ever needed to rent one.

However, I do sympathise with those that have been hurt by one (accidental or otherwise) and have seen some irresponsible ECV operators in my time, too.

In 2005, we saw a lady drive one straight, full throttle, off a curb in the hub in front of the castle at MK. It was broad daylight and there were tons of people around finding spots for the afternoon parade. The funny thing was that it made a huge KABOOM so loud it stopped people in their tracks around her and she just kept driving it down Main Street like she didn't even know what she'd done. Oblivious!

I've now got a mental picture of some cute little old granny doing a Dukes of Hazzard impression with her ECV!!

 

[Chip_and_Dales_Girl]

And ChipandDalesGirl, this wasn't directed towards you but when I'm walking down main street, I don't expect everyone to watch out for me (especially if I have a stroller) so why should I be expected to watch out for others....I would like to see the park as well. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of things to look at and everyone runs into things....just say excuse me and go about your merry way.

While I respect your view on this, I do keep an eye out for all kinds of other people. Not just ECVs. Wheelchairs, strollers, children, people who stop in the middle of the street. When I'm on an ECV and when I'm not. I always have, especially since someone's child ran in front of me on my ECV, I stopped suddenly, almost lost balance because of the sudden stop (I have my own ECV) and then got yelled at by the parent because "You people always run over children you're so dangerous!". So now, I watch.

But adopting your philosophy, why should I have to watch? Why can't I just enjoy WDW when I'm going around and wander around looking at everything?

I really don't think there will ever be a solution to this problem short of taking out all of the ECVs. That 1% of ECV drivers that we seem to be talking about has RUINED things for the other 99%. You would not believe some of the things that have been said to me, some of the names I have been called, and the parents that want to yell at me for daring drive while their child is running around Main Street. I can only see this from my own perspective and it probably is a good choice for me to bow out of this.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Have not read any of the replies, but I do know when I used an ECV back last year due to a herniated disk, it was always keeping my eyes open and ready to stop.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Not a single person has said that we should absolve all the reckless drivers. We are in fact arguing about the opposite: reckless walkers! People who will thoughtlessly dive in front of ECV's, and the fact that some people here think that it is still the ECV's fault if that happens. I am amazed at this.

I think you're refering to my comments and I think you are misunderstanding me. First, I don't think that there are too many people who spend their days at WDW jumping out in front of ECVs. Second, people who aren't aware of their surroundings, whether walkers or riders, are rude and inconsiderate. So, if someone does jump out in front of an ECV, they are absolutely behaving badly.

Both of those things being said, if a motorized vehicle and a pedestrian collide and it resulted in a law suit (not saying it would or should), the motorized vehicle would more likely than not be deemed at fault because they are the ones with operating a piece of machinery that could be dangerous. Therefore, they hold the responsibility. Is that fair? Maybe not. However, that's how it is.

I'm not sure why you are amazed by that. I'm not saying that ECV drivers are horrible people or any such thing. I'm just saying that they hold most of the responsibility in these situations and, to protect themselves, they are the ones who need to be alert.

 

[C.Ann]

Four suggestions that would help.


2) Install a system that automatically applies the brakes when you let off of the throttle

--------------------------------

This would create an even worse disaster.. People are always following too closely behind.. If the ECV were to stop that suddenly, you would literally have a pile-up of people falling on top of the machine - causing injuries to themselves as well as the driver..