Rumors that Disney is in negotiations to sell Star Wars back to George Lucas!

[starlite_]

My problem with it is that Hollywood hasn’t seemed to figure out how to write for female leads in these roles.

Even though they are everywhere, they seem to think each one of them needs to tick a whole bunch of specific boxes to make sure they are embodying the stereotypes that they feel women should have, and that they can’t possibly be reinforcing any stereotypes they feel women shouldn’t have.

So they’re all the same character and they’re all really, really uninteresting.

What does that even mean? Why is writing a male lead and a female one any different?

 

[mdmost]

My problem with it is that Hollywood hasn’t seemed to figure out how to write for female leads in these roles.

Even though they are everywhere, they seem to think each one of them needs to tick a whole bunch of specific boxes to make sure they are embodying the stereotypes that they feel women should have, and that they can’t possibly be reinforcing any stereotypes they feel women shouldn’t have.

So they’re all the same character and they’re all really, really uninteresting.

Would that maybe stem from writers mostly being men? The writer for this is a man as well.

 

[RamblinWreck]

What does that even mean? Why is writing a male lead and a female one any different?

Well apparently when you’re writing a female lead, she’s bearing the responsibility of the representation of half the people on earth (even though female leads are everywhere) and thus it’s super important to make them all fit a very narrow set of character traits and everything they do has to go their way and be admired by everyone.

 

[BrianL]

What does that even mean? Why is writing a male lead and a female one any different?

I kinda get what he's saying - but I really don't think the issue is super widespread, at least not in movies. I do see this kind of thing in comic books a lot, but comics have generally lousy writers these days. Most of the big movie franchises are fine with how they write women I think. So many of these characters that are cited as having no flaws, actually o, in fact, have flaws.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Male leads have been written with flaws since the beginning of time. Hollywood is scared to give a "Strong Female Lead" a flaw because they perceive it as a sign of weakness. You end up with stone faced, uninteresting characters, with no flaws, that are just naturally great at everything. That's why so many people find the troupe unrelatable.

 

[BrianL]

Male leads have been written with flaws since the beginning of time. Hollywood is scared to give a "Strong Female Lead" a flaw because they perceive it as a sign of weakness. You end up with stone faced, uninteresting characters, with no flaws, that are just naturally great at everything. That's why so many people find the troupe unrelatable.

So, how many "strong female leads" can you name that don't have any flaws?

 

[leiaorgana]

Correct. They are scared to death to give a "Strong Female Lead" any flaws because they assume that will make them weak. Instead, they make them incredibly unrelatable because they are too perfect.

Amazing to me that they used to know how to do this, but forgot. Take Ellen Ripley as an example from Alien. Was there ever any doubt who the hero of that movie was? Did you ever hear anyone not like that character? Incredible character in every way, but now I am a "misogynist" because I think Rey was a Mary Sue.

Ripely was originally written as a man. All of the characters in Alien were purposely given gender neutral names so that they could cast the right people for the roles.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Ripely was originally written as a man. All of the characters in Alien were purposely given gender neutral names so that they could cast the write people for the roles.

So, you agree she was an incredible and complex character it seems. I know I am such a "misogynist"!

 

[starlite_]

I kinda get what he's saying - but I really don't think the issue is super widespread, at least not in movies. I do see this kind of thing in comic books a lot, but comics have generally lousy writers these days. Most of the big movie franchises are fine with how they write women I think. So many of these characters that are cited as having no flaws, actually o, in fact, have flaws.

I just find it disingenuous that ppl say women are not written well when men aren't written perfectly either. Unless a character is a walking stereotype at the end of the day it's just a character, and very very few characters are written perfectly, because writers aren't flawless.

 

[nancipants]

Ripely was originally written as a man. All of the characters in Alien were purposely given gender neutral names so that they could cast the write people for the roles.

Guarantee Ripley would be torn to shreds by those same YouTubers if Alien came out today. She's not the commander, tries to override her captain to abide by company policy, doesn't have any evident special skills, and ends up the only survivor after going back to save her cat and fighting the alien in her underwear? Well, they'd probably like that last part, except Sigourney Weaver isn't conventionally "hot".

 

[BrianL]

I just find it disingenuous that ppl say women are not written well when men aren't written perfectly either. Unless a character is a walking stereotype at the end of the day it's just a character, and very very few characters are written perfectly, because writers aren't flawless.

True. There are TONS of male characters that are poorly written and nobody complains about that.

 

[nancipants]

I just find it disingenuous that ppl say women are not written well when men aren't written perfectly either. Unless a character is a walking stereotype at the end of the day it's just a character, and very very few characters are written perfectly, because writers aren't flawless.

It's still so annoying that people say Captain Marvel is a horribly written character when she's emotionless on purpose! She was kidnapped by the Kree and had her mind wiped! Also, the movie explains why she's so powerful but people still get mad about it because she didn't "earn it" (because being an Air Force pilot isn't good enough, apparently).

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Guarantee Ripley would be torn to shreds by those same YouTubers if Alien came out today. She's not the commander, tries to override her captain to abide by company policy, doesn't have any evident special skills, and ends up the only survivor after going back to save her cat and fighting the alien in her underwear? Well, they'd probably like that last part, except Sigourney Weaver isn't conventionally "hot".

If Sigourney Weaver isn't hot, I sure would love to see what is!

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

True. There are TONS of male characters that are poorly written and nobody complains about that.

But they do complain about that, people have been complaining about men in films since the beginning of movies.

In this exact franchise:

- Little boy Anakin ("terrible actor")
- Older Anakin ("terrible lines and delivery")
- Jar Jar ("stupid character")
- Luke ("Whiney")
- Kylo ("emo, weak, and dollar store Vader"
- Poe ("too cocky and arrogant")
- Young Han in Solo ("Not Harrison Ford")

 

[BrianL]

But they do complain about that, people have been complaining about men in films since the beginning of movies.

In this exact franchise:

- Little boy Anakin
- Older Anakin
- Jar Jar
- Luke
- Kylo
- Poe
- Young Han in Solo

That's not what I meant and you know it. I mean, written without flaws like all these supposed female characters are that so many people take issue with.

Also, Jar Jar? Really. He's perfect, man. Perfect.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

It's still so annoying that people say Captain Marvel is a horribly written character when she's emotionless on purpose! She was kidnapped by the Kree and had her mind wiped! Also, the movie explains why she's so powerful but people still get mad about it because she didn't "earn it" (because being an Air Force pilot isn't good enough, apparently).

She was overpowered, and she had the unlucky distinction of having Brie Larson as her actress. Brie said some stuff about "a wrinkle in time" that just made her poison to most men ever liking her. She basically told white men her movies are not for them, and they are giving her just that. Also she was late to the party after people had a long time with all the other avengers, she was therefore hard for people to accept over the original Avengers.

 

[starlite_]

It's still so annoying that people say Captain Marvel is a horribly written character when she's emotionless on purpose! She was kidnapped by the Kree and had her mind wiped! Also, the movie explains why she's so powerful but people still get mad about it because she didn't "earn it" (because being an Air Force pilot isn't good enough, apparently).

I saw the hate before I saw the movie unfortunately. And when I actually went to the theater I was like "well of course snowflakes hate her, she is awesome and her cast is awesome" I don't understand why women can't be over the top superheroes when nobody is sayin Captain America is over the top. Or Hawkeye doing epic arrow stunts, or Iron Man building a super suit with scraps, tape and a prayer.

Like, it's all unrealistic. That's the point!

 

[BrianL]

It's still so annoying that people say Captain Marvel is a horribly written character when she's emotionless on purpose! She was kidnapped by the Kree and had her mind wiped! Also, the movie explains why she's so powerful but people still get mad about it because she didn't "earn it" (because being an Air Force pilot isn't good enough, apparently).

You know Women have to earn it, but men just get it handed to them. I mean, duh.

 

[leiaorgana]

So, you agree she was an incredible and complex character it seems. I know I am such a "misogynist"!

Where have I called you a misogynist? I’m just saying Ripley is developed as she is because she was originally written as a man. She didn’t become Ellen until Sigourney was cast.

 

[mdmost]

She was overpowered, and she had the unlucky distinction of having Brie Larson as her actress. Brie said some stuff about "a wrinkle in time" that just made her poison to most men ever liking her. She basically told white men her movies are not for them, and they are giving her just that. Also she was late to the party after people had a long time with all the other avengers, she was therefore hard for people to accept over the original Avengers.

To the tune of 1.131 billion dollars, which that movie made? Oh let me guess, that was simply because it was a Marvel movie so it did that well. Much like Ant-Man...oh wait.