Rude Rude Rude

Discussion in 'The DIS Unplugged Podcast' started by nevergrowup826, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. TCups4Me

    TCups4Me Mouseketeer

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    I think if you look for it, you will find it. If you let these minor things bother you, they will. Focus on your actions and that's it. Mickey ears at shows? Never even occurred to me. Yep. My kids have stopped cold on a sidewalk before to announce that their shoe is untied or has mulch in it or an itch or whatever. We then "pull over" to correct the shoe issue.

    My point is that people are not always being super selfish. MOST of the time, they are not being super selfish. Have you ever been in a car drop off or pick up line at a school? It's the same level of maddening if you let it get to you. So don't!

    I came back from Disney over Spring Break thinking about how many fantastic people I met. It was unseasonably hot and crowded and I generally try to avoid people at all costs but there was so much friendliness going on. People are good. Focus on it and that will be the predominant behavior you see. Generalizing and name-calling doesn't help spread happiness either.
     
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  2. kollerbear

    kollerbear DIS Veteran

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    Whatever will we do. Society! Manners! NOTHING IS THE SAME!
    party: <--- disaffected rowdy undisciplined youths --> :rockband:

    Chances are your parents, your kids, you as an individual, were not as pleasant and perfectly raised as you remember. I will never have patience for these threads and I'm sorry to stir the pot, I guess. I just feel like a lot of my parents' generation mistake newer, evidence based practices in discipline for not disciplining your kids. (Though I know that isn't what everyone here is talking about, I cannot tell you how many people are disturbed by the idea that I don't plan on spanking my kid.) I would never say that there aren't changes in society and parenting, of course that happens. But there are a lot of things that us millenials are doing right, too. Typical that a company can charge us thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars promoting an experience, and then we show up and discover they have promoted that same completely unrealistic experience to tens of thousands of people, and we get mad at each other instead of at the company that has milked us for our vacation dollars and tried to upsell us left, right and center.

    I love Disney and I love going, but I will never cease to be amazed by how I can visit the same parks and yet I'm somehow apparently missing the legions of untended terrible kids and parents out there.

    So yeah, since you asked point blank, I think you're being overly sensitive. Times, behaviors, norms and practices have changed. Many of the behaviors you are alluding to do not signal disrespect (e.g. taking photos of a fireworks show with a device that has a display screen).
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
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  4. JacknSally

    JacknSally DIS Veteran

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    It's never occurred to me to take off my mouse ears every time I go inside or am standing in a crowd... I usually have them pinned on so they don't fly around on rides. If I'd known people were expected to remove them every time you were inside or standing for a show or watching a character or what-have-you, I honestly probably wouldn't wear them at all. Sorry for being unknowingly and unintentionally rude, OP. :rolleyes2
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
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  5. kollerbear

    kollerbear DIS Veteran

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    Yes, your presence has made the experience for others sub-optimal.

    Mickey ears have a very low profile. They make someone's head maybe 30% bigger in terms of visibility. If I'm ticked off that someone is wearing Mickey ears, chances are I'm just ticked off that there is someone in front of me. Which happens when a park is crowded.

    I can have a lot more sympathy for folks who have kids put on shoulders in front of them. Mickey ears are NBD.
     
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  6. JacknSally

    JacknSally DIS Veteran

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    Haha, my intended sass may not have been evident in my initial comment. Let me be clear - while it certainly never crossed my mind that anyone would expect people to remove their ears outside of certain rides (RNR, 7DMT, BTMRR, things like that), I also have no intention of starting to now remove my ears any time I'm not the only person in the area - because it's DISNEY WORLD. It's going to be rare that I'm ever the only person in an area that isn't my specific hotel room. So I guess I'm now being rude. But, I'm also short, and am 99% certain that most people can see over me even with my ears, unless they're shorter than I am. I also try to not stand directly in front of people in situations like fireworks and castle shows. We show up early to get our spots and we stay standing, fully dressed, so if anyone stands behind us at some point they are well aware of the view they're going to have. So maybe I'm not being rude? Sometimes it's really hard to tell nowadays, haha.

    OP was absolutely incensed that "no one takes them off for shows anymore!" and in my 25 years of visiting WDW, I don't remember ever being told I needed to remove my ears in a show, nor do I remember everyone else removing their ears during a show. That remark alone makes me wonder how many genuinely rude people the OP actually encountered, and how many weren't being rude at all but the OP deemed it so.

    Now, OP, if you have someone who intentionally waits until the show starts and then they put on mouse ears that they were not otherwise wearing, despite knowing they have people standing immediately behind them whose views would be impeded, then you have a fair claim about wearing mouse ears being a rude behavior.
     
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  7. kollerbear

    kollerbear DIS Veteran

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    Honestly when I'm taking pictures nothing makes the picture better than having the folks in front of me decked out in ears. :) If I got thwacked in the head because someone forgot to take off their ears-- my first thought would be "Ouch, I wish they hadn't forgotten to take off their ears!" I just hate how the assumptions are that young people have changed or are less altruistic or communally minded than they used to be. There is no evidence that this is the case. (In fact, there is much to suggest that millenials are more altruistic in our values and our practices than generations before us.) If you look back at the crowd levels when we were kids it's like looking at night and day. Most kids (and even parents) have had little to no practice behaving (and parenting) in a place with such dense crowds and we are all learning. (Edited to remove a more pointed comment I added in a fit of pique.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
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  8. NuttyDisneyDad

    NuttyDisneyDad Disney veteran

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    Ok time for me to chime in....I bet that the OP and every single person that is agreeing with their comments thay have done things at the parks that other human beings have deemed rude..... people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. Noone is perfect
     
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  9. NuttyDisneyDad

    NuttyDisneyDad Disney veteran

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    I am 39 and not a millenial but I looooove your comment.
     
  10. arminnie

    arminnie <font color=blue>Tossed the butter kept the gin<br

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    I have been going to WDW since 1980. Since the 90s I've been going multiple times a year. I've been retired for 15 years and live within driving distance of Disney so go even more now.

    I can't think of more than 3-4 times that I've stepped on or pushed in the past 35 years. The most recent one I can think of was when I was using my ECV (first trip). I dropped something and let go of the tiller to try to catch it - which cause my ECV to stop immediately. The person behind me ran into me. He was very apologetic although I felt like it was my fault.

    I think some people look for something to be upset about.
     
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  11. North of Mouse

    North of Mouse DIS Veteran

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    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  12. Kindermouse

    Kindermouse DIS Veteran

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    I dont think this is a generational issue slanted against millennials. I AM a millennial and yet I too see that attitudes are shifting across many groups away from the "good for all" to the "good for me" mentality. I think it would be very glib indeed to place the blame on that on an age group when what people are worrying about in terms of mind set shifts is seen across the generational divide. I dont think anyone can argue that the current group of young adults hasnt made a lot of wonderful choices and changes to society that enrich us all and encourage the "good" for all" mentality. Just look at the shift in education in terms of special education rights, equality in marriage and so many more. If anything I think that bullying a particular group is part of the problem, how can there be a prevalent "good for all" mindset if we see ourselves as "us verses them...and the problem is them". I think that people of many different groups are tired, stressed out and doing the best that they can and it often leaves them unintentionally inconsiderate-but thats not what makes people shake their heads in dismay.

    I also dont think that the general concern is mouse ears-that may be the named infraction but the mouse ears are simply the straw that broke the camels back...after the camel has been cussed out, pushed out of their viewing spot for fireworks that they have held for over an hour, and had their foot run over only to be given the stink eye instead of an apology. The mouse ears are small and unnoticeable (nice if you do remember but not a crime if you dont) until they are just one more thing on a litany of affronts that make people feel, well, sad and like others regard them and unworthy of the trouble of being inconvenienced. It's not millennials not teaching their kids to say excuse me or sorry-I see the same behavior from the grandparents, actually I see it almost just as much from grandparents, children, and parent alike. People may write that the kids behavior has gotten worse but I think what we mean is how much we see worse behavior from everyone but its more heart breaking and noticeable when we see t from children who most of people associate with goodness and innocence. Please please please dont feel targeted, or like the finger is pointed at you because we all know that such an action leaves 4 more fingers pointed back at ourselves.

    That is why I propose that the good that we see should be noticed, celebrated and passed forward. It's there so we should encourage it and then maybe we will all be a little less tired and stressed out and more likely to think about how we can be kind and considerate of others. People cant expect others to pour out goodness when their cup hath run dry.

    But what the heck do I know.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
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  13. kollerbear

    kollerbear DIS Veteran

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    @Kindermouse I have to say I kind of started out thinking I was going to disagree with you, but I really like your post and agree with a lot of what you say.

    I do have an instinctive bristling when I hear what amounts to "kids nowadays". We are all learning how to adjust to a big change in consumer goods and lifestyle-- my dad is just as (if not more!) likely to be absorbed in his phone at dinner. And while taking photos with an iPad seems really inconsiderate to some (and I admit I'm annoyed by it in my lizard brain), on reflection I see a device that has made it easier for more people to take good photos, access information, try ambitious, "reach" trips with kids that our parents wouldn't have dreamed of trying, etc.. I have no right to be ticked off by others' living their lives differently than me and enjoying fireworks differently than I do. (Flash photography on dark rides is actually expressly prohibited, so I remain ticked off by that when it happens more than once, which I chalk up as an accident.)

    I also firmly believe that a lot of the behavior we see is a result of an often overly-crowded park, families with unrealistic expectations (that have been SOLD to them as such), children and adults dealing with sensory overload, unfamiliar with how to act in an environment so extremely crowded, and genuinely trying their best to have a good time. Sometimes I think *we* are the ones with unrealistic expectations, too. Disney has not created any system whereby you wait for an hour and you deserve the perfect viewing spot of the parade. It kind of doesn't work like that. You can do your best to get a good spot and to be assertive in preserving it, but it's going to be what it's going to be. (This is kind of the Disney equivalent of people "saving" the spots they have shoveled out on public streets during snowstorms. The world doesn't work that way!) The parade viewing world isn't fair-- and it honestly kind of never was. There were just fewer people in the park, so you used to be able to stake out a less crowded spot and you'd do well by default. So either don't wait an hour, or be willing to understand that your investment only increases your chances of having a perfect spot, it's not a guarantee.

    And the thing is, honestly, most of the time the folks I'm around seem to get it right!! They really, really do. And, if you have never been in a situation where you might have *appeared* to be inconsiderate to someone else, you live a really charmed life. Reading these boards has made me infinitely more sensitive to the extremely diverse sets of invisible challenges that people are dealing with every day in the parks. So while I'm sure I get cut in line, rammed intentionally by strollers, whacked in the head by kids with oblivious parents, etc., I honestly don't interpret it that way and I don't feel aggrieved when I visit the parks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
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  14. kollerbear

    kollerbear DIS Veteran

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    Thank you! Imagine the tough self-reckoning that I faced when I only RECENTLY learned that I am, in fact, an (older) millenial. I thought all of this criticism did not apply to me, but now I have taken on the mantle of the cause as my own. Hahhaha ;)
     
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  15. Kindermouse

    Kindermouse DIS Veteran

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    This is such a good point. People, young and old are spending so much time in crowded over stimulating places that so many people are walking around in a near constant state of sensory overload. And its become so common place that people struggle to even self identify that they feel internally dis-regulated. We as the consumer always asks for bigger, louder, and more More MORE but perhaps it actually comes at a price to our ability to actually enjoy it. Then we go to places like Disney. Being over stimulated and inundated with extreme sensory input like that actually stimulates the amygdala which triggers the fight, flight, freeze response and gives people hair trigger emotions and makes them sensitive the the slightest things and it makes them defensive and reactive.

    Maybe we need to get back to less is more and see if that help as well. You do hear more pleasant trip reports from those that do slower paced trips and take breaks from the parks.
     
  16. StraightToDumbo

    StraightToDumbo Monorails kill dreams.

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    Excitement, mob mentality, and exhaustion are main culprits. Overstimulation does crazy things. What we all can do is politely make people mindful of their actions. I can't count how many times I pointed in a crowd only to sock some running 8 year-old.
     
  17. *NikkiBell*

    *NikkiBell* The WDW Merchandise Walking Bible Moderator

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    So, what you're saying here is that people's bad behavior is because of Disney? Surely this is a bit of a stretch.
     
  18. Mackenzie Click-Mickelson

    Mackenzie Click-Mickelson DIS Veteran

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    Millennial here lest you think I'm from the other sides..I'm sorry but no taking photos of a fireworks show with a device that has a display screen can be disrespectful. It all depends. You know what I do when it's dark where I'm at and I want to take video or picture of something (and I mean this in general not necessarily just theme parks)? I have my screen brightness down extremely low (I wouldn't be doing this in rides by the way- though that's a subject that has been hashed I'm sure over the years on the DIS) because out of respect I get it how jarring and disruptive it can be when it's at a higher level. But what you more commonly see is a bunch of flashes (which let's face it can be annoying when you're trying to enjoy something but that may be able to be ignored depending on the situation) or high brightness on people's screens (and that comes from all ages--4th of july was fun this year when some middle-aged women decided they had to have the flashes on to get the pictures they desperately needed plus their screen brightness was way high and that absolutely disrupted the display I was watching in an otherwise dark parking lot). So the presence of a phone isn't the issue it's what the person does with it that can make it an issue.

    *As a whole I really do get tired of the whole "millennials this and millennials that but there are some things that are not bound by a generational stereotype*
     
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  19. kollerbear

    kollerbear DIS Veteran

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    No, what I'm saying is that Disney is an environment that is far more crowded and difficult to navigate than it is marketed as being (and people are often unprepared because of that). People are distracted and preoccupied figuring out how to navigate that with their family. It is a rarified environment and I don't think it is bad behavior 98% of the time. It may be distracted or thoughtless behavior, but I firmly believe most are doing the best they can.
     
  20. TheMaxRebo

    TheMaxRebo DIS Veteran

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    Wait, are you implying that the reality of Walt Disney World isn't what they convey in their commercials? (E.g., you child getting to run to a Cinderella waiting with open arms in the grassy area next to the Castle)

    I do agree things get made much worse with the crowds and people want/trying to have the perfect Disney vacation and just elevated stress levels there and also that often it isn't people actively trying to be rude but at the same time not always thinking of others as much as they could.

    At the same time I have also encountered some guests that are actively rude and just didn't care they were negatively impacting other people - and that had nothing to do with crowd levels or anything. As I always say: sometimes the answer is just "bad guy" - no further analysis needed
     
  21. marcyleecorgan

    marcyleecorgan DIS Veteran

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    Sadly I think the problem is a blend of the human nature to "fight or flight" in a stressed crowd response, and yes, the marketing that is designed to keep you oblivious to the ~20,000 other people at the Parks.
     

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