Rude or just socially unaware?

[Katy Belle]

To me, it matters.

It's not one or two things according to the OP, but many and it effects how this woman is perceived. It appears the woman is literally and figuratively throwing elbows to get the best for her family. So the intent to "get as much as possible" for her family is there at the expense of others. It's repelling behavior. People do pick up on norms, customs, and etiquette. If they do nothing more than watch others, they pick it up. Children do it. Adults can do it.

So funny you should say "throwing elbows!!!" It reminded me of yet another story... there really are MANY... and she's lived here about a year! One time my DH and DS15 were at the neighborhood gym. They were stretching, both standing by a machine. DH said the Jan family came in and literally threw elbows to get to the machines! I asked "Why didn't you say, we were using those." He said he was so shocked he couldn't even think!

Part of me thinks they are clueless.... part of me thinks they HAVE to know that what they are doing is rude.

It doesn't really matter. I just try to limit my time with them. When the subject of Boy Scouts comes up next year I will make sure we set it up so that we SHARE the driving.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Lots of people on the Dis into judging, I see...

You can't live your life without judging. You are judging the people on the boards judging.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

You can't live your life without judging. You are judging the people on the boards judging.

Good point...

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

To me, it matters.

It's not one or two things according to the OP, but many and it effects how this woman is perceived. It appears the woman is literally and figuratively throwing elbows to get the best for her family. So the intent to "get as much as possible" for her family is there at the expense of others. It's repelling behavior. People do pick up on norms, customs, and etiquette. If they do nothing more than watch others, they pick it up. Children do it. Adults can do it.

I wonder, though, if ALL adults can do it? I mean, is it impossible to consider that some adults are functionally autistic and simply may not notice this stuff? This person sounds like an autistic adult...

 

[Arielle22]

From someone who has lived in many places, what may seem rude to one is totally acceptable in another part of the country or in different cultures, and vice versa. For example, in some parts of the country people kiss when greeted, while in other parts of the country they might hug or do something on that order. Not offering a kiss is rude to some, and kissing a person the first time that you are introduced (or ever) is considered rude in others. I can offer many such examples that I have noticed over the years. As much as Ann Landers might have made it seem otherwise, there is no universal book of etiquette. Who can keep up?

If the behavior is not intentionally offensive, does it really matter?

Expanding on your analogy, tour books will tell you what is acceptable in the area so your behavior is not outside the norm and not offensive to the locals.

If the behavior only bothered 1 person then I would say it is a toss up and the behavior should be ignored. However if the behavior aggrivates multiple people then the behavior is not socially acceptable and should be changed.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I wonder, though, if ALL adults can do it? I mean, is it impossible to consider that some adults are functionally autistic and simply may not notice this stuff? This person sounds like an autistic adult...

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. This case though to me, FWIW, sounds off the chart in terms of rude. If it were rude behaviors that didn't benefit the woman or her family, I'd think it were more in line with a mental thing. The benefits tip it for me. I think, from what I've read, the woman is artful and knows what she is doing while reaping the benefits.

But it's anybody's guess really.

 

[OceanAnnie]

So funny you should say "throwing elbows!!!" It reminded me of yet another story... there really are MANY... and she's lived here about a year! One time my DH and DS15 were at the neighborhood gym. They were stretching, both standing by a machine. DH said the Jan family came in and literally threw elbows to get to the machines! I asked "Why didn't you say, we were using those." He said he was so shocked he couldn't even think!

Part of me thinks they are clueless.... part of me thinks they HAVE to know that what they are doing is rude.

It doesn't really matter. I just try to limit my time with them. When the subject of Boy Scouts comes up next year I will make sure we set it up so that we SHARE the driving.

That's my default. Avoidance. If I find something someone does intolerable, I'm more inclined to avoid than confront. Don't give the woman opportunities to take advantage. It sounds like a good plan.

 

[KimR]

I wonder, though, if ALL adults can do it? I mean, is it impossible to consider that some adults are functionally autistic and simply may not notice this stuff? This person sounds like an autistic adult...

I agree, but if this person is high-functioning enough to be married and raise children, she should be able to learn the basic rules of socially acceptable behavior.

 

[Sorsha]

I wonder, though, if ALL adults can do it? I mean, is it impossible to consider that some adults are functionally autistic and simply may not notice this stuff? This person sounds like an autistic adult...

DH worked with a guy who was like this... especially the food part. Whenever there was a work potluck, he would dive right in, elbowing others aside, grabbing the best and the most for himself, sometimes reaching right into the dish with his hands to grab what he wanted. Everyone was horrified and speechless the first few times, eventually the boss talked to him about it, but nothing ever helped... he was functionally unable to realize - either from social norms or from the reactions of others around him - that what he was doing was unacceptable. He was hungry, the food was there, it was good, so he snatched and grabbed and stuffed his face. He was socially awkward in other ways too.

From a few other social outings I experienced with him, it became obvious that, although he had a good heart and was really a sweet guy, he was just completely socially clueless, and apparently incapable of learning from the cues around him. It really hurt his feelings that people were annoyed and sometimes repulsed by him and his behavior. He didn't understand that he was doing anything wrong.

Come to find out, it is now believed that he has suffered most of his life with undiagnosed ADHD, Aspergers, and possibly bipolar. Although it doesn't make him ANY easier to spend time with, it explains a lot of his issues... he isn't just rude for the sake of rude, he probably can't help himself.

 

[SC Minnie]

I can't get over her bringing her mail to your home so your DH could take it to work and mail for her AT ALL let alone at 6am.

 

[Sorsha]

I agree, but if this person is high-functioning enough to be married and raise children, she should be able to learn the basic rules of socially acceptable behavior.

Possibly, but in the case of the fellow I told of above, he has a wife and kids too. HOWEVER, his wife acts as his "handler". When they are out together, he does much better, because she is constantly beside him, reminding him gently with a touch, or a soft word, when enough is enough, or when he should stop talking, or that something he is doing may be unacceptable. She brings him his plates of food, and generally helps him through. With her help, he does much better.

I can't even imagine - I sometimes feel so sorry for her. She has a child who will never mature, who will never move out, who will never "grow up"... and its her husband. She loves him dearly though, and I am glad they have eachother.

 

[Katy Belle]

I can't get over her bringing her mail to your home so your DH could take it to work and mail for her AT ALL let alone at 6am.

Ok... I better clear this up We live overseas... in Doha, Qatar. We live in a 'compound' which is basically just a gated community, neighborhood. Her DH and my DH work for the same company. Her DH works at a "plant" location and my DH works at the "office" location. To mail anything to the USA we put a USA stamp on it, the company puts it in air freight, it goes to the big office in Houston, and they mail it in the USA mail. This way we don't have to go to the local post office and pay a bunch to get it there. Its actually fine for her to have DH mail it... but just not at 6 a.m. I think I might suggest she slide it under his windshield wiper.

 

[kamik86]

If this wasn't an anonymous message board there is no way I would be saying this but here goes.

It is possible she realizes much less then you think. I'm going to use myself and my DH as examples. We don't have friends besides each other. To be honest I don't even know how to really make friends. I know that sounds weird from someone in her 20's but its true. I have had "friends" as in the people I talk to at school and play with at recess but never really the kind you play with after school and just randomly do things together. I managed a few times during school to do things with other students but I can literally name all the times I have done something out of school with others they are so few. Now at work I have coworkers that I talk to about non-work things from time to time but never go out after work or anything. I have no idea how people get started doing those things. My husband in contrast just has no interest in friends. He has been asked by people at his work from time to time to do things but always says no, not because he doesn't like them but he generally wants to do something else and just doesn't think anything of declining.

Some things are extremely stressful for me. Office parties... I have no idea what is appropriate to wear and stress over that, the informal more pot luck kind or when we go out to a restaurant as a group I have to watch everyone else to figure out what they are ordering or taking to know what is appropriate. So although I manage in these situations it takes work. I am constantly watching myself and what I'm doing. I can't tell you the number of times someone says hi to me in the hall way as we are walking past and by the time I process what they said (especially if I was thinking about something else) they are too far away to say hi back so that although I know I should I probably seem really rude to people.

I have no idea what time is appropriate to call or stop by someones house, actually I would probably never do that except for family that I know about when they wake up so its not such an issue but if for some reason I needed to, I have no idea.

The idea of just asking people for things, even things I need. For example when I email someone with questions for a work project that they are responsible for and they don't get back to me it is incredibly stressful for me to go and ask them for them again. I know I need to do this but I have such a hard time doing so. Lately in the group I'm in now that this happens in alot others I'm working with have started doing some of this for me because they realize I tend not to. I feel bad and I know I need to do better but it stresses me out so much to think of doing it... especially for those people I have never actually met (since I"m new to the project).

I realize there is probably something wrong with me that makes me like this but I have no idea what that is. I never will. Why because interactions scare me so the chances of me asking someone (even a doctor) about what is wrong with my scares me to no end because what if something ISN'T wrong with me? What if I'm just stupid and rude and there really isn't anything wrong??

None of you even know me and I know I can just stop coming here or get a new user name and I'm still nervous about even posting this message. No one knows any of this about me except my husband. Not even my parents know.

 

[agnes!]

I think I'd start refusing (somewhat nicely) to do any favors at all for her. Want me to take *your* mail and mail it for you? Sorry, no can do. Want me to shuttle your kid around with no reciprocation? Sorry, that won't work for me. Want to borrow my bread-pan/my lawn-mower/my tools/my whatever? Sorry, that's not possible today.

Want to ring my doorbell at 6:10 in the morning to ask an inane favor? Unless my house is on fire, it would never happen again, believe me on this.

agnes!

 

[RadioNate]

Absolutely self centered. So self centered that she doesn't even realize how rude she is being.

My inlaws can be this way. If you call them out on their behavior they are SHOCKED because they have no idea what they did could be seen as rude. They aren't trying to be rude. They just simply don't ever factor anyone else in their decisions or actions. It doesn't even occur to them how anything affects anyone else.

It is mind boggling.

 

[Glynis]

Are there are a lot of kids invited to the potlucks? The reason I ask this is because I belong to a huge family. We have potlucks on a regular basis, and when we first started it was literally a snatch and grab fest for the kids. They couldn't believe all this food laid out! We finally sat everyone down before eating, one time, and explained that while everyone was welcome to the food, there were a few "ground rules" that were going to be laid down so everyone could enjoy the time together.

1. Grandma's and Grandpa's get to eat first.

2. Parents eat next.

3. Kids eat after parents.

4. Everyone may take one item, or one scoop of an item per tray/bowl/pan on their first time through the potluck.

5. Once everyone has been through the line once, you may go back for whatever you like.

6. Desserts are brought out only after main/side dishes have been eaten.

7. Only one dessert from each tray/bowl/dish per person on the first time through the line.

Once we set the ground rules, it made potluck's much more enjoyable for everyone. We do occasionally have to refresh people's memory, but it's never done in a mean way.

Perhaps you could do something like this.

Just a thought.

 

[AlleyKat]

If this wasn't an anonymous message board there is no way I would be saying this but here goes.

It is possible she realizes much less then you think. I'm going to use myself and my DH as examples. We don't have friends besides each other. To be honest I don't even know how to really make friends. I know that sounds weird from someone in her 20's but its true. I have had "friends" as in the people I talk to at school and play with at recess but never really the kind you play with after school and just randomly do things together. I managed a few times during school to do things with other students but I can literally name all the times I have done something out of school with others they are so few. Now at work I have coworkers that I talk to about non-work things from time to time but never go out after work or anything. I have no idea how people get started doing those things. My husband in contrast just has no interest in friends. He has been asked by people at his work from time to time to do things but always says no, not because he doesn't like them but he generally wants to do something else and just doesn't think anything of declining.

Some things are extremely stressful for me. Office parties... I have no idea what is appropriate to wear and stress over that, the informal more pot luck kind or when we go out to a restaurant as a group I have to watch everyone else to figure out what they are ordering or taking to know what is appropriate. So although I manage in these situations it takes work. I am constantly watching myself and what I'm doing. I can't tell you the number of times someone says hi to me in the hall way as we are walking past and by the time I process what they said (especially if I was thinking about something else) they are too far away to say hi back so that although I know I should I probably seem really rude to people.

I have no idea what time is appropriate to call or stop by someones house, actually I would probably never do that except for family that I know about when they wake up so its not such an issue but if for some reason I needed to, I have no idea.

The idea of just asking people for things, even things I need. For example when I email someone with questions for a work project that they are responsible for and they don't get back to me it is incredibly stressful for me to go and ask them for them again. I know I need to do this but I have such a hard time doing so. Lately in the group I'm in now that this happens in alot others I'm working with have started doing some of this for me because they realize I tend not to. I feel bad and I know I need to do better but it stresses me out so much to think of doing it... especially for those people I have never actually met (since I"m new to the project).

I realize there is probably something wrong with me that makes me like this but I have no idea what that is. I never will. Why because interactions scare me so the chances of me asking someone (even a doctor) about what is wrong with my scares me to no end because what if something ISN'T wrong with me? What if I'm just stupid and rude and there really isn't anything wrong??

None of you even know me and I know I can just stop coming here or get a new user name and I'm still nervous about even posting this message. No one knows any of this about me except my husband. Not even my parents know.

Rule out stupidity; you realize you have a problem. I didn't read any examples of rudeness.

You may have an anxiety disorder.

 

[ols386]

It sounds to me like your neighbor is mostly socially unaware, rather than rude. But if I were in your position, her behavior would become old after awhile, and eventually I'd probably try to nicely talk to her about it, but I doubt that even talking to her about it would change anything.

 

[freckles and boo]

If this wasn't an anonymous message board there is no way I would be saying this but here goes.

It is possible she realizes much less then you think. I'm going to use myself and my DH as examples. We don't have friends besides each other. To be honest I don't even know how to really make friends. I know that sounds weird from someone in her 20's but its true. I have had "friends" as in the people I talk to at school and play with at recess but never really the kind you play with after school and just randomly do things together. I managed a few times during school to do things with other students but I can literally name all the times I have done something out of school with others they are so few. Now at work I have coworkers that I talk to about non-work things from time to time but never go out after work or anything. I have no idea how people get started doing those things. My husband in contrast just has no interest in friends. He has been asked by people at his work from time to time to do things but always says no, not because he doesn't like them but he generally wants to do something else and just doesn't think anything of declining.

Some things are extremely stressful for me. Office parties... I have no idea what is appropriate to wear and stress over that, the informal more pot luck kind or when we go out to a restaurant as a group I have to watch everyone else to figure out what they are ordering or taking to know what is appropriate. So although I manage in these situations it takes work. I am constantly watching myself and what I'm doing. I can't tell you the number of times someone says hi to me in the hall way as we are walking past and by the time I process what they said (especially if I was thinking about something else) they are too far away to say hi back so that although I know I should I probably seem really rude to people.

I have no idea what time is appropriate to call or stop by someones house, actually I would probably never do that except for family that I know about when they wake up so its not such an issue but if for some reason I needed to, I have no idea.

The idea of just asking people for things, even things I need. For example when I email someone with questions for a work project that they are responsible for and they don't get back to me it is incredibly stressful for me to go and ask them for them again. I know I need to do this but I have such a hard time doing so. Lately in the group I'm in now that this happens in alot others I'm working with have started doing some of this for me because they realize I tend not to. I feel bad and I know I need to do better but it stresses me out so much to think of doing it... especially for those people I have never actually met (since I"m new to the project).

I realize there is probably something wrong with me that makes me like this but I have no idea what that is. I never will. Why because interactions scare me so the chances of me asking someone (even a doctor) about what is wrong with my scares me to no end because what if something ISN'T wrong with me? What if I'm just stupid and rude and there really isn't anything wrong??

None of you even know me and I know I can just stop coming here or get a new user name and I'm still nervous about even posting this message. No one knows any of this about me except my husband. Not even my parents know.

I think it takes a lot of courage to admit this out loud, even to strangers. If you do want to get some help, it is out there for you. I agree with a PP that rudeness requires some awareness and some intention. What can seem rude is often this social awkwardness. I have a daughter who will need a lot of help in this area because of autism, but I don't automatically assume everyone who is socially awkward is autistic. Some people are very anxious and just shut down. Social skills that come naturally to most people can be taught.

 

[amandaluvsgoofy]

My DH and I really can't stand people like this! If someone has a disorder, such as Autism that is one thing. But these repeated behaviors really demonstrate a combination of self-centeredness and ignorance (and possibly some sort of disorder). As PPs have mentioned, I would simply stop acknowledging them (no more loaning things, running errands, doing favors, etc) and they'll either get the picture or find someone else to bother/annoy.