rude airplane couples?

[OntFamily]

If someone absolutely does not want to sit behind a reclined seat, the perfect answer is to sit in a seat with no seat in front of it -- a bulkhead seat.

There are very bulkhead rows on each plane, and frequently the seats are allocated to families before airport check-in begins.

 

[Gary M]

I just returned from a trip tp Beijing, China. This was a 13 hour flight from Newark. The person in front of me reclined their seat every second they were allowed to on both flights. If you think it is easy eating your meals with the seat in front of you reclined, you must be a very small person or a contortionist. Three meals were served on each flight and the person in front of me keep the seat back while they ate. I think it would have been common courtesy for them to raise the seat during the meals.

 

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

I just want to add this as food for thought to those who might think that reclining the seat back is okay in every instance. Sometimes, doing so may cause someone extreme discomfort.

Let's say there's a passenger, 5' 10" tall, but most of their height is in their legs and is very long-legged. Let's also say that this passenger also suffers from an autoimmune disease. Their immune system attacks their joints as if they were an infection. They are in pain every minute of every day, so severe that even some of the strongest pain medications only provide some relief.

Let's say they are seated on a flight behind someone who reclines the seat back all the way, jamming the seat into their knees. For most, it might be minor, but for this person it's very major. This long-legged passenger is already in a somewhat tight position without the seat back reclined, and is extremely uncomfortable now.

Exit row a possibility? Maybe not if this passenger boards carrying a cane. Bulkhead seat right behind first class? Maybe, but not if a frequent flier has already claimed it, wanting something close to the front of the plane to make a speedy departure.

Does the person seated in front of the passenger I described have the right to recline the seat back, even when doing so causes the passenger to be very uncomfortable (and this is a gross understatement -- "a helluvalottapain" comes closer)?

Oh, and if anyone thinks the person I described is hypothetical, I'll introduce you to my wife sometime.

 

[Jillpie]

You got to be nuts!! You'll be charged for battery!!! In this age you don't touch anyone.

I'm pretty sure this poster meant "gently touching the kids head" as a joke. I took it as such anyway.

 

[inkkognito]

While I believe that I'm entitled to recline if I'm in a seat that does so (and I usually do it because if I don't, my neck and shoulder muscles spasm for a day after the flight), I think you also need to use common courtesy. Once, when my husband and I were in our favorite two-seater exit row on ATA (which had an abundance of legroom), the guy behind me said, "I want to apologize in advance if I kick the seat." He was huge! Very tall, and totally smooshed. I felt so sorry for him that I swapped seats; I am 5'3", so I figured for two hours he'd enjoy the comfort of the exit row a lot more and I wouldn't suffer too badly in a "regular" seat. Do a random act of kindness every now and then...it will make the world a much better place.
Barb

 

[kilee]

I have never been on a plane where the seats reclined enough to make a difference in my space honestly. I've had people in front of me recline, but it really didn't affect me. Guess I've been lucky w/ the airline's I've flown with then. Usually DS and I are playing games since he won't sleep on a plane (he's a pre-teen so no kicking issues here). Anyhow, so we don't usually recline, but we always seem to have people in front of us that do.

As for the kicking infant/toddler. An innocent single kick is one thing, thats an accident. I would of made a firm complaint to the FA about the constant, pretty much abusive kicking. That is out of line. I am sorry, you may not be able to control your childs crying and such but if you can't control them kicking repeatedly you have issues.

 

[NotUrsula]

Perhaps some day there will be an airline that installs non-reclining seats throughout their fleet and proudly boasts, "Our seats don't recline!" Somehow, I don't think they would be very successful.

That airline would be Ryanair. Their profits were up 30% last quarter: http://www.ryanair.com/site/about/invest/docs/present/quarter1_2006.pdf

The primary reason that Ryanair has ordered their new planes without recline is that the seats are less expensive in the first place without it, and they also don't need as many repairs. (They have also eliminated seatback pockets and window shades for the same reasons.) However, on the subject of the reclining seats, Ryanair are actually are getting some mileage out of the fact that no one will lean back and squash you. (They are locking down the recline function on existing seats as part of scheduled maintenance.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I personally believe that the recline etiquette problem exists because the maximum recline degree that coach seats have is about the same as it was 20 years ago, while the pitch has been greatly reduced (and yes, I'm aware that the seatbacks are much thinner now.) That angle was fine when the pitch was greater than 34", but when you are scraping closer to 30", it becomes a tyranny of parallels, which is why you also get so many people ticked off about passengers behind them levering themselves up by grasping the seat in front. If the seat is not reclined, it's possible to lever up using the armrests, but if it is reclined, getting to your feet without grabbing that seatback for balance becomes something of a contortionists' trick.

RE: the tray table use not being affected by the angle of seat recline: Not really true, especially if the seat has been forced back so hard that it has slipped the gear stop (a not uncommon thing). Again, design has not caught up with the times. In the old days when the only thing that landed on that tray table was a plate of food that was carefully set up not to be more than 2" high (remember the really shallow coffee cups?), the only problem was the possibility of dropping food on oneself in a moving aircraft because of not being able to lean a bit over one's plate. Now that airlines are leaving us all to bring our own food, the height of it is a bit less predictable, and it often ends up nudging the reclined seatback. People now expect to be able to put taller things (up to about 12" tall, like laptops) on that tray table, and a fully reclined coach seat just doesn't give that much clearance.

FWIW, when a child kicks my seat, I tell him directly to stop, and it almost always works; there is a shock factor in being spoken to by a stranger. I also NEVER let my own child do it to other people. The one and only time DS tried to defy me after being called down on the seat-kicking thing, I fixed his little wagon with the somewhat oversized pr. of sweat pants he was wearing; I stretched them down past the ends of his feet and folded the ankle ends back under his tush. Since he was strapped in a carseat, those feet were not budging, and it didn't take long before he realized that Mom meant business. Yes, it was uncomfortable for him, but it taught him that seat kicking was something that I could and WOULD prevent him from doing.

 

[localdriver]

What happened to good 'ol fashion manners and compromise.

You don't want my answer.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

There are many truly rude things that people do when traveling.

Using airplane seats as designed is not one of them.

 

[localdriver]

FWIW, when a child kicks my seat, I tell him directly to stop, and it almost always works; there is a shock factor in being spoken to by a stranger. I also NEVER let my own child do it to other people. The one and only time DS tried to defy me after being called down on the seat-kicking thing, I fixed his little wagon with the somewhat oversized pr. of sweat pants he was wearing; I stretched them down past the ends of his feet and folded the ankle ends back under his tush. Since he was strapped in a carseat, those feet were not budging, and it didn't take long before he realized that Mom meant business. Yes, it was uncomfortable for him, but it taught him that seat kicking was something that I could and WOULD prevent him from doing.

You have the answer!! Respect for others, AND the guts to speak up when it's your seat being kicked. That's how it should be and used to be.

Be Careful, some idiot will turn you in for child abuse because you insist your child has manners in a public setting and restrained your childs movement or some such garbage.

 

[DiscussDisney]

NotUrsula is exactly right!!

The recline on the seats was originally designed for pitch widths > 34". Many airlines are "cramming" the seats in, thus only allowing for pitch widths < 34". It is unfortunate that the airline industry did not redesign the seat recline, but I suppose they don't have the money to do it.

As a commuter on a NJ to NYC bus 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, 4 hours a day, I can tell you that reclining your seat is a big "no no" on the bus. It is simply uncomfortable for the person behind you.

Having said that, I don't think there is much anyone can do about the reclining except to nicely ask them not to put their seats all the way back. As a very tall person, I always try to get the emergency exit rows, but that doesn't always happen. I don't mind people reclining their seats a little, but why oh why must it be all the way back? The only acceptable reason to me is for medical reasons.

Luckily I have very strong legs and can generally control the recline of the seat in front of me. They try to recline and try and try but can't figure out why it's not going back. After about 10 minutes, they generally give up.

 

[delilah]

Now, just what would be the polite thing for the person in the window seat behind the reclined seat to do when they need to get up to use the restroom? It is a little difficult to get up, stand at a 30 degree angle and climb over the middle and aisle passengers. I've tried "excuse me, please" and gotten blank stares or worse.

 

[foxtrotter]

Luckily I have very strong legs and can generally control the recline of the seat in front of me. They try to recline and try and try but can't figure out why it's not going back. After about 10 minutes, they generally give up.

I did that on the last flight I took. The guy in front of me was so confused but after awhile he just gave up and I was spared from having to count his hair follicles. I agree with those who say that just because your seat has the ability to recline that you should go ahead and recline it despite the fact that it is rude to do so.

I never recline my seat because I think that it's very rude. I only hope that I'm lucky enough to have a like-minded person in front of me on my next flight...

 

[goofy4tink]

When dh, who is 6'4" tall, flys with us, he can not sit in an exit row seat. When he flys by himself he always tries to sit in that section. Now, when he is with us, he has to sit on the aisle. I get smooshed in the center since dd likes the window seat. SO.....there is always someone who, rightfully I guess, has to recline their seat as soon as is humanly possible, in front of dh. Of course the seat won't go back all the way because his knees are right there. So, what does this person do?? Tries again and again...banging against dh's poor old arthritic knees. Then, one person actually turned around and gave him the filtiest look...as if there were something he could do about his knees preventing her seat from fully reclining!! I have to say that I have never reclined my seat, although it looks like I shouldn't be so worried about it. I hate the thought of making someone as uncomfortable as I have been, just so I can recline a few inches. My word, it's only a 3 hr. flight (in my case!!) And yes, I do understand about having back issues...mine goes into spasm all the time and I have a bit of a neck issue. So I can understand those of you with these issues putting your seat back. I think someone answered it perfectly...the planes used to have more spacing between the seats...even 2" is a big deal when the seat in front of you is reclined. Flying now is more like being on a bus. Well, maybe not. I think I had much more room on the DME bus than on my flight!!

 

[Aliki]

Choose only one:

1. Complain to the flight attendant. This is assault on the part of the mother for not restraining the child and can turn into assault on the part of the airline of the flight crew does not fix the problem.

2. Every time the kid kicks you you turn around and gently pat the kid's head.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

I would NEVER touch somebody's child. This can constitute assault later on if you make any physical contact. If she's a b*&ch enough to ask her child to kick you, she'll probably drag you to court for hitting her child in the head

 

[Aliki]

FWIW, when a child kicks my seat, I tell him directly to stop, and it almost always works; there is a shock factor in being spoken to by a stranger. I also NEVER let my own child do it to other people. The one and only time DS tried to defy me after being called down on the seat-kicking thing, I fixed his little wagon with the somewhat oversized pr. of sweat pants he was wearing; I stretched them down past the ends of his feet and folded the ankle ends back under his tush. Since he was strapped in a carseat, those feet were not budging, and it didn't take long before he realized that Mom meant business. Yes, it was uncomfortable for him, but it taught him that seat kicking was something that I could and WOULD prevent him from doing.

My DH did this on a 15 hour flight to China once. There was a kid behind us that kept kicking his seat. Finally, 3-4 hours into the flight, he got up, turned around to face the kid (and the parent who didn't give a d*mn), and said: "Excuse me, every time you kick the seat, it's hurting my back. Would you please stop kicking the chair?"

The woman dropped her magazine and yelled: "DON'T YOU DARE TALK TO MY CHILD THAT WAY!"

 

[dadtoagirl]

I'm 6'5" and your welcome to recline your seat as far as you want just as I'm welcome to have my knees jabbed into you back the entire time as you lounge on my lap.

 

[RickinNYC]

Why do you think you should have involved a FA?

They had every right to put the seast back. DH and I often snooze, even on afternoon flights. I do try to be considerate, but if I"m tired, the seats going back.

If you want to be assured of having the room, book first class.

Anne

As oh-so-lovely as flying first class might be with all that amazing leg room, it is not an option for most people. You know that, so no need to say so.

Do folks in front of you have the right to put their seat back? Absolutely! But there is also something that a few people have mentioned which is called common courtesy. If everyone lived their lives with the thought that "it's my right" to do what is truly within their rights, then we'd be surrounded by some incredibly self centered, selfish, self serving people. Yes, it's your right. You paid for your seat. Yes, you're reclining into the "recline space". Yes, the seat was designed to lean all the way back. Yes, to everything.

For that matter, that's why I don't complain or do anything when someone decides to push their seats all the way back. And it's within MY right to leave my legs exactly where they are so you can NOT go as far back as you like. I'm 6'4" and have some pretty darn long legs. I can keep my knees exactly where they are so you won't be able to go beyond an inch if you're lucky.

Is this rude? I guess, yes. But like you, I paid for my seat. I won't make a scene, or give you the "how DARE you" look, or say a word or even give a world weary sigh.

(FYI, the above was written with a touch of humor for those that think I'm gonna fly with my legs up your backside -- been there, done that, just not all the time, I reserve that for obnoxious people)

In all seriousness, however, common courtesy goes a LONG way, even if you're tired and want to take a nap. You want to lean back? Fine, but perhaps you can subtly check out the person behind you and see if your comfort is going to sacrifice theirs. A good compromise is to go half way in some cases... like the 6'4" guy that's seated behind you.

 

[seashoreCM]

Now, just what would be the polite thing for the person in the window seat behind the reclined seat to do when they need to get up to use the restroom? It is a little difficult to get up, stand at a 30 degree angle and climb over the middle and aisle passengers. I've tried "excuse me, please" and gotten blank stares or worse.

The same thing you say to the person(s) between you and the aisle. And the person(s) reclined in front has(ve) the same obligation to get out of your way as the person(s) to your side, or is(are) subject to jostling in the same way as may be the person(s) to your side.

NotUrsula is exactly right!!

The recline on the seats was originally designed for pitch widths > 34". It is unfortunate that the airline industry did not redesign the seat recline, but I suppose they don't have the money to do it.

Luckily I have very strong legs and can generally control the recline of the seat in front of me. They try to recline and try and try but can't figure out why it's not going back. After about 10 minutes, they generally give up.

It is a no-brainer for the airline to adjust how much the seats recline. Until the airline, under pressure from passengers, does, passengers have the right to use the recline provided and you have no right to take something including the right to recline from some other person without giving something in return.
.

 

[DiscussDisney]

It is a no-brainer for the airline to adjust how much the seats recline. Until the airline, under pressure from passengers, does, passengers have the right to use the recline provided and you have no right to take something including the right to recline from some other person without giving something in return.
.

Oh I'll give them something in return. And I quote member dadtoagirl "my knees jabbed into their back the entire time as they lounge on my lap."