ROFR Thread July to Sept 2022 *PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL*

[limace]

And I hate that it’s driving folks to direct-I totally get it but it reinforces their actions and I think can make it worse in the future.

 

[Lorana]

Right...the first one is an accidental success and then you start looking based on why the first one worked! Congratulations!

A point is a point is a point, so even if you are buying/selling the same resort it doesn't matter much IMO. There is a cost to buying and selling, however if the free points (loaded contract/$18 PP rental) cover costs and you have points in your bucket for your trip. Sell it stripped, pay your taxes (on rentals and then gains) and move on. It's always been a win (for us) and then proceeds from that contract pays for the next. Cost of a stay is pretty much MF's or less if you clear a profit. Sweet!

We stumbled upon this concept when we picked up twin 50/50 VBR contracts at around $50 PP and then realized the market was up and sold for $89 PP, separately. It was a no brainer as we could easily rebuy similar points or better.

We've bought cheap during downturns and had time to take trips, watch prices rise and sell when we feel we are at/near the top. At this point, we usually have enough contracts to keep us in points until we snag another. The slow ROFR process is a drag which is why we just went out of the DVC market for a contract...

We recently bought ($200 net) a Wyndham Bonnet Creek which gives us about two weeks/year for $1200/yr MF's. Now we have *insurance* to stretch our 500 or so points regardless of what we sell.

Two 40 point AKV's will land in our account in the next couple weeks and help refill the point bucket for 2022/2023. We sent a nice, loaded OKWE to ROFR this week and hope it makes it through. These are keepers. I have at least one more 2042 to sell in the near future and a couple more perhaps next year which are not keepers. If we have to wait it out, no problem as we didn't pay much for any of those contracts and we get to use the points in the interim. It works for us. YMMV.

I’ve been telling myself I’m going to follow your lead, but then once I have the contract, I get used to having those points and don’t want to sell, lol.

I imagine I will downsize down the road, but right now I’m enjoying spoiling my larger family with trips while my dad is still able to go, my oldest is only just going off to college, and so we’re using the points.

 

[Brian Noble]

It's also possible that they are just overloaded through a combination of more sales or (perhaps more likely) lost staff. They'd be far from the only people who are below capacity at the moment.

 

[pianomanzano]

She led me to believe that it's just an insane volume of contracts that have closed recently.

For what it's worth, the guy who does the resales analysis for DVCNews has said that the number of resale transactions have dropped considerably. So not sure what their excuse is, but 6-8 weeks is unacceptable!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I’m waiting on one from the end of July to be added. Unless there are a flood of resales, I’m feeling more and more like DVD and DVC are really trying to slow down the process and extend the time that it takes to buy resale. ROFR waivers are taking 30 or more days, MA is taking 4-8 weeks to add the contract to the dashboard, and then another 2 weeks for points to be loaded? Potentially 14 weeks for resale versus minutes for direct using the exact same system?

I’ve seen more and more people talk about just going direct because of the hassle and the timeline. Resale buyers have always put up with shenanigans in the timeline because there was savings, but this is getting crazy.

They're not doing it on purpose.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I think people throw around the terms "escalate your complaint" and "team" a little too loosely when it comes to DVC. Over and over, I hear people suggest that a member "escalate their complaint" or that they are certain the "ABC team" or the "XXX team" is working on whatever their issue is. There's an impression that there's a team for everything and anything.

DVC is a TINY division of the Walt Disney Company. They don't have an army of Cast Members, all divided up into specialized teams of individuals for each and every phase of the sales, contract management, and property management aspects of DVD. Heck, we just recently found out that the supposed room full of drunk ROFR monkeys sitting around a conference table is, in actuality, a single woman handling all ROFR decisions. One person. All ROFR. Heck, they don't even occupy the whole building they are in in Kissimmee. There are at least 4 or 5 other tenants in that building, including a coworking space in there that has two offices available right now. To have as many "teams" as some would have you believe, they'd need dozens and dozens of CM's. I'd wager there may be on the order of 40 or 50 people TOTAL (besides the phone minions) actually actively involved in operations and administration.

Oh, and "Escalating" your complaint likely means the guy in the next cubicle might give you a call back because it's his week not to man the phones or chat.

 

[hereforthechurros]

That's exactly what I did. I've got another in ROFR right now. Had to pick another UY, but since it's my first contract not much issue.

Problem is, I found a dirt cheap OKW with an International Seller that has the same UY as the AKL. How deep in debt do I want to go?

I can’t imagine not paying cash for these points. Seeing their interest rates start at what, 12%? For a timeshare? I love Disney but - no.

 

[gskywalker]

Don't think Disney is buying back any Riviera at this point. Having said that, can't imagine they're too happy about their brand new resort selling so low. $135 for a 50 point contract is the lowest I've seen, especially considering it's such a low point contract.
I know a lot of people will say that the resale restrictions aren't significantly affecting Riviera's price, but I can't imagine the resort selling so low without them.

Wife says " I don't want more, I don't have addonitis, I don't need more points when I have a 60k kitchen you have to pay for...... wait a 50 point riviera??? That sounds like a good "investment" she says to the former investment manager, lol. Seriously where is the 50 point contract? I will offer $99 pp and see where it goes

 

[The_MT]

That's exactly what I did. I've got another in ROFR right now. Had to pick another UY, but since it's my first contract not much issue.

Problem is, I found a dirt cheap OKW with an International Seller that has the same UY as the AKL. How deep in debt do I want to go?

Think of it more as an investment You came to the wrong board if you are looking for us to tell you not to do it

 

[StoweFoSho]

They're not doing it on purpose.

You could argue that, but I also don’t think it’s an accident. I think it’s their system of doing things. Disney is a huge conglomerate that has to have internal systems of operations. Right now, it sounds like resale transfers are deprioritized in that system. Since both direct and resale members pay for the member administration why should there be a 6-week gap to enter the same/similar transfer information?

 

[CarolMN]

Since both direct and resale members pay for the member administration why should there be a 6-week gap to enter the same/similar transfer information?

That's an assumption that I'm not sure is true. It's very possible that there is a separate group, paid for by DVD, that processes the direct purchases. IIRC, some have reported that they were told this.

 

[DonMacGregor]

That's an assumption that I'm not sure is true. It's very possible that there is a separate group, paid for by DVD, that processes the direct purchases. IIRC, some have reported that they were told this.

See my earlier post. I think this is another example of really overinflating the size and manpower of DVC/DVD. If every step in the process had a "team" or "group", you'd be talking about hundreds of Cast Members. Do I think there are a large number of front-facing LGM's handling phone CS? Absolutely. But as far as most other processes, I'd wager the "group" is more than likely several people who are also part of another "group" or process as well (depending on the hat they're wearing).

Again, the ROFR "room full of drunken monkeys" turns out to be a single individual, who has a significant impact on process times when she is sick or on vacation.

Organizations tend to use terms like "team" or "group" to lend the process a greater legitimacy or gravitas, and to give you the sense that there's an army of people tirelessly working to ensure you receive the best service and best outcome possible. It makes you feel more special and less like your concerns are insignificant. Eyewash for the ego.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You could argue that, but I also don’t think it’s an accident. I think it’s their system of doing things. Disney is a huge conglomerate that has to have internal systems of operations. Right now, it sounds like resale transfers are deprioritized in that system. Since both direct and resale members pay for the member administration why should there be a 6-week gap to enter the same/similar transfer information?

It's not similar transfer information.

To be clear, I think the present state of things is unacceptable. But I think it's the product of Disney not being aggressive enough to get themselves properly staffed rather than deliberately effing with resale buyers.

 

[Nursemanit]

You could argue that, but I also don’t think it’s an accident. I think it’s their system of doing things. Disney is a huge conglomerate that has to have internal systems of operations. Right now, it sounds like resale transfers are deprioritized in that system. Since both direct and resale members pay for the member administration why should there be a 6-week gap to enter the same/similar transfer information?

The process is simple data entry once the deed is registered, the entire month of closed resale transactions could be entered in a day.

 

[NVDISFamily]

The process is simple data entry once the deed is registered, the entire month of closed resale transactions could be entered in a day.

I'm guessing there are financial and quality controls in place that require checks, rechecks, and validations that take time. I'm not too surprised that it takes the team more time to post memberships on the resale side.

I do agree that there is a overall strategic reason why they don't have great pressure to make it as efficient as they can.

 

[Chia1974]

I'm guessing there are financial and quality controls in place that require checks, rechecks, and validations that take time. I'm not too surprised that it takes the team more time to post memberships on the resale side.

I do agree that there is a overall strategic reason why they don't have great pressure to make it as efficient as they can.

I just believe they don’t promote resale and don’t care if you wait forever! VS direct, points are loaded within hours and months before the contract is even closed.

 

[Nursemanit]

I'm guessing there are financial and quality controls in place that require checks, rechecks, and validations that take time. I'm not too surprised that it takes the team more time to post memberships on the resale side.

I do agree that there is a overall strategic reason why they don't have great pressure to make it as efficient as they can.

Once the property is closed and a deed is registered, the only real check is to verify that it went through ROFR, the estoppel certificate plus other items needed for the title company verified the rest ( points / outstanding balances ) prior to closing.

The process most likely involves updating the prior owner account with an end date for the contract, then assigning a new number, and creating a user/membership/contract record in the new owner's account.

In addition, there will be some extra accounting on new contracts to make sure the guide got the appropriate commission and make sure welcome packages/gifts are sent ( assuming cash sale and no loan paperwork). It may actually be easier for a resale when you break it all out. I bet they even load points prior to all of the paperwork being done for new contracts.

It never took this long in the past, the whole 6-8 weeks is a recent thing, and as has been reported volume is down not up this time of year.

 

[geargrinder]

I can’t imagine not paying cash for these points. Seeing their interest rates start at what, 12%? For a timeshare? I love Disney but - no.

We tend to finance, but pay off very quickly. Financing allows us to manage our bigger payments

We have cash reserve to pay for either/both, but we also have huge tuition bills from our daughter that impacts the reserves twice a year.

So, since we have a financed contract in ROFR, I am hesitant to put an offer in on another contract.

 

[ValW]

It never took this long in the past, the whole 6-8 weeks is a recent thing, and as has been reported volume is down not up this time of year.

It absolutely has taken this long in the past. Possibly special circumstances (Covid) but end of 2020 through mid 2021 I purchased 8 contracts. The fastest was 81 days and the longest was 99 days. This isn't a new phenomenon. Personally I don't believe they take long on purpose, but I also don't think they have any reason to be quick.

 

[Sandisw]

You could argue that, but I also don’t think it’s an accident. I think it’s their system of doing things. Disney is a huge conglomerate that has to have internal systems of operations. Right now, it sounds like resale transfers are deprioritized in that system. Since both direct and resale members pay for the member administration why should there be a 6-week gap to enter the same/similar transfer information?

DVD definitely funds MA, whether it’s all of it or most of it

From what I was told when I inquired, just like sales guides are not paid for by owners, neither are the CMs that handle the transfer of contracts.

It Also sounded like they have a dedicated team that deals with direct contract creations.