ROFR Thread July to Sept 2020 *PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL*

[we"reofftoneverland]

I know everyone's different, but I'm not sure I would deal with an international seller again. First of all, it extends the time. The seller took over a week to sign the initial paperwork for RoFR, and now I am waiting three weeks on Monday and they still haven't sent back the closing docs.

I am today at 100 days since making the offer. At this rate, even if we somehow close next week, I don't have points in my account until 150 days from offer? June to November for points...

The second and more relevant reason for me, though, is FIRPTA. It's a pain, and I didn't relish signing tax documents that I had to research to fully understand. I hope I didn't miss something... Don't want to be on the other side of the IRS.

Seller pays the 15% tax under the agreement, but it is technically the Buyer's responsibility to withhold that and make sure that money gets to the IRS. Title company will receive the money from the Seller and will remit on Buyer's behaf, but I have had a company remit payment to the IRS before (not having anything to do with DVC), and two years later, the IRS sent me a letter saying that the payment was never received and now I owed the amount plus interest. We were able ultimately to prove that it was, in fact, sent the two years prior and received by the IRS, but we had to go through all the machinations involved with that.

So with this present transaction, I asked the title company to agree in writing to provide me with the proof so I would have it if the IRS contacted me years from now, and it took them over two weeks to finally agree to that. I have over 20 emails back and forth where they are evasive and won't answer my direct question or they answered part of my question but did not address the most pressing portion. Needless to say, I finally have a written agreement of what they will provide and when, but they seemed very thrown by the request. Perhaps it was just a request they haven't gotten before, but that would seem odd to me. Maybe I'm a worry wart. Idk...

By contrast, I put an offer in on an AKV contract from a US seller two months after the offer on this VGF, and the way things are going, I will be getting all the points in my account at pretty close to the same time... without the stress of tax documents I've never seen before and IRS withholdings.

I did get a great deal on the VGF with the International Seller, but for me, it just wouldn't be worth the aggravation to do it again. Just my personal opinion and experience...

Although, there are, what, hundreds maybe?, of these international sales every year and they all seem to turn out just fine. So if one is looking for a deal and doesn't mind waiting an extra month or doesn't mind the withholding process, then buying from an international seller may be worth it.

Just wondering if you know the country of your international seller? I agree that there is risk involved and it is very interesting to me that Disney finds that risk to high to ROFR.

 

[Chol]

Chol---$116-$13370-110-AKV-Aug-0/19, 0/20, 110/21, 110/22- sent 8/18, passed 9/18

 

[Cyberc1978]

Why is it because It is more difficult to deal with in terms of paperwork or is it more convenient to deal with an international seller or buyer.
thanks

As an international buyer and seller I can say it’s really no problem. True there is more paperwork for the seller when your are international. When I bought from an international seller I had to get the ITIN number but the seller paid for it as part of the process

International sellers are subject to the FIRPTA withholding by the IRS. Disney doesn't want to deal with that stuff.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/firpta-withholding

The title companies I have used all did the withholding both when I bought and sold. They ensured proper documentation etc.

When I sold I got the option to use a firpta agent or just pay the 15% of the sales price and be done with it

I definitely felt in good hands

There is also more possibility for fraud with international sellers. In some countries international sellers have to go to the US embassy to get their documents notarized.

Actually all international sellers need to go to the US embassy in their home country ornuse to sell.

IMO the risk of fraud is the same as if the seller is US based. If you go to the US embassy they still need to verify it’s you based on your ID the same goes if you use an apostille and don’t go to the embassy.

With my experience I wouldn’t hesitate buying from an international seller again.

 

[jbreen2010]

Day 38 came and went waiting on our SSR ROFR.

I called the broker who told us that on 9/11 DVC reached out to the broker and asked them to resubmit some paperwork. Broker told me that she’s not sure if Disney will look at us soon (now been an extra 5 business days) or if we’re now back of the line and starting the 30 something days of waiting again. Pretty disappointed...these contracts are just name, points, use year, and sale price. Wish DVC could make this decision a little quicker because if they want to take it, then just take it.

this is my second time in the ROFR process with the same broker. First one was taken and now second one has this delay. Has anyone else ever heard of a delay like this. Wondering if this one gets taken if I needed to pick a new broker or if this is common? We are working with one of the bigger brokers (I felt like they had the biggest inventory for sale on their website) Just feels really odd.

 

[sgserenity]

Why is it because It is more difficult to deal with in terms of paperwork or is it more convenient to deal with an international seller or buyer.
thanks

So is it fair to say that to some degree there is more advantages to buy from an international seller. It is more paperwork work and a bit more time but we can almost be guaranteed that then ROFR monkey won’t strike??WOW

and more time is not necessary correct if you go international. I bought from a seller In the US and it took them over 3 weeks to return the paperwork. Apparently it was sent To the title company with a tracking Number on Thursday Sept 17 and we received all the original paperwork on aug 27. I have boughten 1 direct contract and this is my 3rd resale and I never realized the International sellers can take some of the nail biting out of the equation.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Day 38 came and went waiting on our SSR ROFR.

I called the broker who told us that on 9/11 DVC reached out to the broker and asked them to resubmit some paperwork. Broker told me that she’s not sure if Disney will look at us soon (now been an extra 5 business days) or if we’re now back of the line and starting the 30 something days of waiting again. Pretty disappointed...these contracts are just name, points, use year, and sale price. Wish DVC could make this decision a little quicker because if they want to take it, then just take it.

this is my second time in the ROFR process with the same broker. First one was taken and now second one has this delay. Has anyone else ever heard of a delay like this. Wondering if this one gets taken if I needed to pick a new broker or if this is common? We are working with one of the bigger brokers (I felt like they had the biggest inventory for sale on their website) Just feels really odd.

We have purchased 4 resales and the longest we have ever had to wait was right around 30 days. But we have never used the broker with the largest inventory. We have made offers on a couple of their listings but both times they told us our offers were too low without even going to the seller. They were not lowball offers, both were within $8 of the sale price. Honestly it sounds like your broker did not submit the correct paperwork in their original submission. Why else would they be so vague about what that paperwork is? What else could Disney possibly need? I have noticed that a lot of that broker’s listings are also listed on other brokers’ websites. From what I have been reading lately on this website about that broker, we will stay away from them!

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

As an international buyer and seller I can say it’s really no problem. True there is more paperwork for the seller when your are international. When I bought from an international seller I had to get the ITIN number but the seller paid for it as part of the process





The title companies I have used all did the withholding both when I bought and sold. They ensured proper documentation etc.

When I sold I got the option to use a firpta agent or just pay the 15% of the sales price and be done with it

I definitely felt in good hands




Actually all international sellers need to go to the US embassy in their home country ornuse to sell.

IMO the risk of fraud is the same as if the seller is US based. If you go to the US embassy they still need to verify it’s you based on your ID the same goes if you use an apostille and don’t go to the embassy.

With my experience I wouldn’t hesitate buying from an international seller again.

Wow I did not know that. I thought in anglosphere countries they could skip the US Embassy and go to a local notary.

 

[mlittig]

Chol---$116-$13370-110-AKV-Aug-0/19, 0/20, 110/21, 110/22- sent 8/18, passed 9/18

Congrats, Chol Your contract is very similar to the one my daughter's family is waiting on so it gives me great hope for theirs ~ 110 points at $119 per point at AKV, sent 8/26 with no points till February 2021

 

[Cyberc1978]

Wow I did not know that. I thought in anglosphere countries they could skip the US Embassy and go to a local notary.

That’s sort of true. If you use a local notary then you also need to get an apostille. Without that the local notary is no good.

 

[Naglejen]

this is my second time in the ROFR process with the same broker. First one was taken and now second one has this delay. Has anyone else ever heard of a delay like this. Wondering if this one gets taken if I needed to pick a new broker or if this is common? We are working with one of the bigger brokers (I felt like they had the biggest inventory for sale on their website) Just feels really odd.

We have two that have gotten through ROFR. We used one of the smaller brokers, and did not have a problem for either contract. One took 30-something days, the other around 50 (although there seemed to be a slowdown around the time of the second, based on others’ postings, so I do not want to blame the broker). Excellent & proactive communication from him as well. If you see a contract you like on a smaller site, I wouldn’t hesitate to give them a shot if they don’t have a bad rep.

 

[Zimwicket]

Officially hit day 40 today on my AKV I guess no news is better than it being taken but still...I want to know if I am starting over!! Still insane that I see AKV passes that were submitted a week later getting passed. Maybe mine was lost under someones desk

 

[Ruttangel]

Officially hit day 40 today on my AKV I guess no news is better than it being taken but still...I want to know if I am starting over!! Still insane that I see AKV passes that were submitted a week later getting passed. Maybe mine was lost under someones desk

No AKV taken since March, on this site anyway

 

[Naglejen]

Officially hit day 40 today on my AKV I guess no news is better than it being taken but still...I want to know if I am starting over!! Still insane that I see AKV passes that were submitted a week later getting passed. Maybe mine was lost under someones desk

My AKV took a very long time, too. And mine was a very high ppp, should have been a no brainer for Disney. Hang in there!!!

 

[Brianstl]

As an international buyer and seller I can say it’s really no problem. True there is more paperwork for the seller when your are international. When I bought from an international seller I had to get the ITIN number but the seller paid for it as part of the process





The title companies I have used all did the withholding both when I bought and sold. They ensured proper documentation etc.

When I sold I got the option to use a firpta agent or just pay the 15% of the sales price and be done with it

I definitely felt in good hands




Actually all international sellers need to go to the US embassy in their home country ornuse to sell.

IMO the risk of fraud is the same as if the seller is US based. If you go to the US embassy they still need to verify it’s you based on your ID the same goes if you use an apostille and don’t go to the embassy.

With my experience I wouldn’t hesitate buying from an international seller again.

I think Disney normally holds back on ROFR on international sellers because Disney has to go through extra steps and costs your average citizen doesn’t to comply with laws intended to stop international money laundering. At least that is what someone told me last year.

 

[TheEpcotForEver]

rsn8or---$149-$17030-110-PVB-Oct-0/19, 0/20, 110/21- sent 9/18

Do they ever take back Poly?

Even if they did 149 stripped should be an easy pass. Good luck!

 

[Cyberc1978]

I think Disney normally holds back on ROFR on international sellers because Disney has to go through extra steps and costs your average citizen doesn’t to comply with laws intended to stop international money laundering. At least that is what someone told me last year.

Well that may very well be and if that’s the case that may or may not be lucky for the international sellers. Guess that depends on how you see it.

 

[#DVCnuts]

DVCnuts---$100-$19585-190-AKV-Dec-0/18, 0/19, 220/20, 190/21-Seller pays MF 20- sent 8/26

 

[lovethesun12]

That’s sort of true. If you use a local notary then you also need to get an apostille. Without that the local notary is no good.

Is an apostille more difficult/complicated to fill out? I live in a rural area but getting a notary was easy (I created this unnecessary work for myself because I decided to go with a US loan then pay in full to avoid appointments/bank drafts not realizing this would be necessary).

I guess sending the closing docs could take longer depending on the country but it was really easy here. The first lawyer I called was able to do it. We sent them express and it took 3 business days. I sent a copy to the Title agency ahead of time to make sure they were filled out correctly before posting.

 

[CarpeDream71]

K

Just wondering if you know the country of your international seller? I agree that there is risk involved and it is very interesting to me that Disney finds that risk to high to ROFR.

Japan

 

[Paul Stupin]

I know everyone's different, but I'm not sure I would deal with an international seller again. First of all, it extends the time. The seller took over a week to sign the initial paperwork for RoFR, and now I am waiting three weeks on Monday and they still haven't sent back the closing docs.

I am today at 100 days since making the offer. At this rate, even if we somehow close next week, I don't have points in my account until 150 days from offer? June to November for points...

The second and more relevant reason for me, though, is FIRPTA. It's a pain, and I didn't relish signing tax documents that I had to research to fully understand. I hope I didn't miss something... Don't want to be on the other side of the IRS.

Seller pays the 15% tax under the agreement, but it is technically the Buyer's responsibility to withhold that and make sure that money gets to the IRS. Title company will receive the money from the Seller and will remit on Buyer's behaf, but I have had a company remit payment to the IRS before (not having anything to do with DVC), and two years later, the IRS sent me a letter saying that the payment was never received and now I owed the amount plus interest. We were able ultimately to prove that it was, in fact, sent the two years prior and received by the IRS, but we had to go through all the machinations involved with that.

So with this present transaction, I asked the title company to agree in writing to provide me with the proof so I would have it if the IRS contacted me years from now, and it took them over two weeks to finally agree to that. I have over 20 emails back and forth where they are evasive and won't answer my direct question or they answered part of my question but did not address the most pressing portion. Needless to say, I finally have a written agreement of what they will provide and when, but they seemed very thrown by the request. Perhaps it was just a request they haven't gotten before, but that would seem odd to me. Maybe I'm a worry wart. Idk...

By contrast, I put an offer in on an AKV contract from a US seller two months after the offer on this VGF, and the way things are going, I will be getting all the points in my account at pretty close to the same time... without the stress of tax documents I've never seen before and IRS withholdings.

I did get a great deal on the VGF with the International Seller, but for me, it just wouldn't be worth the aggravation to do it again. Just my personal opinion and experience...

Although, there are, what, hundreds maybe?, of these international sales every year and they all seem to turn out just fine. So if one is looking for a deal and doesn't mind waiting an extra month or doesn't mind the withholding process, then buying from an international seller may be worth it.

Thank you for relating your experience on this. I‘ve read so much about how international contracts always pass ROFR, etc, etc, and it’s always presented as such a good thing, that I totally appreciate your different perspective. I don’t think I’d want to go through that either for the incremental savings.