ROFR Thread April to June 2024 *PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL*

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Oh man.... this is me every day on these forums.... it's agonizing trying to figure out all the acronyms. Some of my biggest fails that took me days/weeks to figure out:

- SAP is supplemental annual points? Nope, that's sleep around points, which still doesn't help me because I don't know what that means either.
- SAB is ... a misspelling of SAP? Nope, it's the water park at Beach Club called Storm Along Bay
- BCV is Boulder Creek Villas? Nope, there is no such thing. I was confusing Boulder Ridge with Copper Creek, and BCV is completely unrelated anyway because it's Beach Club Villas
- AP is ... I guess a high school class.. how is that related to DVC? Nope, that's an Annual Pass
- MF is Multi Factor ... authentication maybe? Nope, maintenance fees.

This is so great and probably what we’ve all gone through

I’ve got a decent hold of these by now but DVC and DVD took me almost a year to realize they were 2 different abbreviations. Just thought DVD had a stronghold on people’s autocorrect lol

Also, every time I see MF I immediately think…well, it would surely be censored here if I wrote it out so hopefully you get the gist

ETA: Sleep around points are points you use specifically at 7mo to ‘sleep around’ resorts other than the home resort. Usually the cheapest points you have. SSR is most people’s go to for this.

SAP+ is newer term being used for points bought for SAP but where home resort advantage is also a factor, think CCV (low dues, reasonable point chart, low-ish buy-in and must own to stay in December) or BLT (location, low dues, must own to get SV). There’s a great thread started by @Chili327 about this that is really informative.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Well but i think the example is: - today it's June 5, 2024. Let's say that last month, I've bought a contract with a Sept UY and it's a 100 point contract. The current UY for this contract is 2023. The seller didn't use their 2022 points and instead banked them. The seller also banked their 2023 points into the 2024 UY. So then the contract has: 100 pts for 2023 UY (banked from 2022 and will expire Aug 31, 2024), 200 pts for 2024 UY (100 are banked from 2023 and will expire Aug 31, 2025, and 100 are the 2024 UY and can still be banked). If I as buyer am only paying 2024 UY MFs then I'm getting 2 years worth of points to rent out, with no MF. Yes, some would be "distressed" but there's still 2 years "free" points plus the current UY.

Today, you can't bank 2024 points, you can only borrow them until you are in the 2024 UY which starts September 1st so you are correct, you'd only have 2 years worth of points unless you borrow those 2024 points.

They are talking about having 3 years' worth of points available to rent out (2022 banked points, 2023 banked points, and access to current year's 2024 points), not 2. That can't happen. The system won't let it happen. Your scenario works all day.

 

[DonMacGregor]

On loaded points from 2022 and 2023 the dues have already been paid by seller so renting these out is 100% profit. If renting 2024 points then yes MF must be subtracted.

Right, and in order to get those 2024 points, you'd need to borrow them. My whole point is that you can't have 3 years' worth of points (I don't care who pays the dues) without borrowing before the end of the current UY and banking from the previous year. If you wait until your 2024 UY starts, the 2022 points disappear.

 

[JackosinDIS]

Right, and in order to get those 2024 points, you'd need to borrow them. My whole point is that you can't have 3 years' worth of points (I don't care who pays the dues) without borrowing before the end of the current UY and banking from the previous year. If you wait until your 2024 UY starts, the 2022 points disappear.

Ah I see where you’re coming at this from now.

You can’t USE 3 years worth of points in ONE reservation without borrowing… that’s true.

But I don’t think that’s what being argued here. Just that you can get 3 years worth of points to rent out on a loaded purchase.. that would of course need to be in more than one reservation as the 2022 banked points would expire before you could use the next years points.

 

[aammtt20]

Right, and in order to get those 2024 points, you'd need to borrow them. My whole point is that you can't have 3 years' worth of points (I don't care who pays the dues) without borrowing before the end of the current UY and banking from the previous year. If you wait until your 2024 UY starts, the 2022 points disappear.

But at no point was I ever claiming that anyone would have 3 years of points available to use at once with this type of contract. What I was saying is that with a triple loaded contract there are three years of points able to be rented out right away, and 2/3 of though no members fees were paid.

 

[JoshF]

timff18---$78-$22054-270-OKW-Apr-0/23, 540/24, 270/25, 270/26-Seller pays MF '24- sent 5/21, taken 6/5

Bummer!

 

[DonMacGregor]

Ah I see where you’re coming at this from now.

You can’t USE 3 years worth of points in ONE reservation without borrowing… that’s true.

But I don’t think that’s what being argued here. Just that you can get 3 years worth of points to rent out on a loaded purchase.. that would of course need to be in more than one reservation as the 2022 banked points would expire before you could use the next years points.

No, you can't do that either.

Let's say I have a 100-point September UY contract. I've never used the points since COVID. Currently, if I look at my dashboard, there will be 100 points that I banked from 2022, 100 points from 2023 (which is the current UY for my September contract, and 100 ppooints showing in 2024 and 2025. Right now, I have 200 points I can use for whatever purpose. That's 2 years' worth of points. If I want to have access to 3 year's worth of points (as has been suggested), I'd need to borrow the 100 from 2024 (because I'm not in the 2024 UY yet). That would certainly give me "triple" points, but not without borrowing from 2024.

If I wait until the 2024 UY points are available without borrowing (which would be September 1st), I lose the 100 points I banked from 2022 because they expire at midnight on August 31st, so I'm back to just having access to 200 points.

 

[DonMacGregor]

But at no point was I ever claiming that anyone would have 3 years of points available to use at once with this type of contract. What I was saying is that with a triple loaded contract there are three years of points able to be rented out right away, and 2/3 of though no members fees were paid.

You said:

If I buy a 100pt contract with 100-2023 and 200-2024 points on it at time of resale, I'm getting 200 points I can rent out with 0 member fee paid on those points.

"Three years of points able to be rented out right away" would be 2300 points, and that's impossible without borrowing. There aren't three years points available to rent. There never are. I don't know how else to say it. If you have all of your prior year's points banked (100 from 2023) and haven't borrowed any from the next UY (2025), then it would be 0-2023, 200-2024, 100-2025.. There's no such thing as "triple loaded". Loaded means the prior UY's points have been banked, you have all of your current UY, and the next use year's points haven't been borrowed. The only way to get 200 points in 2024 while still having all of your 2023 points is to borrow 100 from 2025. You can certainly get three years' worth of points to rent, but you'd need to borrow.

 

[lorimt]

lorimt---$100-$11677-100-AKV-Sep-0/23, 113/24, 100/25- sent 6/5

 

[aammtt20]

You said:

And that's impossible. There aren't three years points available to rent. There never are. I don't know how else to say it. If you have all of your prior year's points banked (100 from 2023) and haven't borrowed any from the next UY (2025), then it would be 100-2023, 100-2024, 100-2025. There's no such thing as "triple loaded". Loaded means the prior UY's points have been banked, and the next use year's points haven't been borrowed. The only way to get 200 points in 2024 while still having all of your 2023 points is to borrow 100 from 2025.

The board sponsor literally has a tag for the listings I've been describing called "triple points." If you have an issue with this description or us using it, you might want to take it up with their site as well. But they definitely exist the way I'm describing them. I've bought them, I've rented them. If you want to refute my lived experience, sure go ahead. It doesn't change anything in the past haha

 

[I Run Long]

Renting previous year points is just making your own magical beginning. Especially on contracts with loaded points from 2022 and 2023 on which dues are already paid, that’s called extra magical beginning

Not sure about tax implications in the US as I’m in Canada.

Believe me, the CRA want their share too. So yes you do have to declare it as taxable income.

 

[DonMacGregor]

The board sponsor literally has a tag for the listings I've been describing called "triple points." If you have an issue with this description or us using it, you might want to take it up with their site as well. But they definitely exist the way I'm describing them. I've bought them, I've rented them. If you want to refute my lived experience, sure go ahead. It doesn't change anything in the past haha

I don't care what the board sponsor says or what terminology they use. Let's look at see what DVC actually says about the matter:


First bullet point: 2022 points can only be banked into 2023 at not beyond. September 2022 UY points expire on August 31, 2023.

Second bullet point: if you haven't used them before the end of the 2023 UY (August 31, at midnight), then expire. They don't survive into the 2024 UY. So unless you borrow 2024 points into 2023, those 2022 points are gone before you have non-borrowing access to 2024 points.

 

[JackosinDIS]

You said:

"Three years of points able to be rented out right away" would be 2300 points, and that's impossible without borrowing. There aren't three years points available to rent. There never are. I don't know how else to say it. If you have all of your prior year's points banked (100 from 2023) and haven't borrowed any from the next UY (2025), then it would be 0-2023, 200-2024, 100-2025.. There's no such thing as "triple loaded". Loaded means the prior UY's points have been banked, you have all of your current UY, and the next use year's points haven't been borrowed. The only way to get 200 points in 2024 while still having all of your 2023 points is to borrow 100 from 2025. You can certainly get three years' worth of points to rent, but you'd need to borrow

There’s plenty of triple points contracts! Take this one for example:

JackosinDIS-$128-$14459-100-BCV-Jun-100/23, 196/24, 100/25- sent 2/5, passed 2/23

The 2022 points had been banked in to 2023, and were still available to be used when I closed early March ‘24. The original 2023 points had been banked in to 2024 and were also available to be used when I closed, along with the non-banked 2024 points. Granted, not all in the same reservation, that would be impossible. But one reservation in May 2024 and one in August 2024 has used all 296 points. That’s three years worth of points available right away… no borrowing involved

 

[VGCgroupie]

@DonMacGregor @aammtt20 @JackosinDIS

To put to in layman’s terms… let’s say this is a DEC UY 50pt contract.

Is this considered double or triple points and is it possible?
23 / 24 / 25
100 / 100 / 50

or is below the max potential?

23 / 24 / 25
50 / 100 / 50

 

[aammtt20]

@DonMacGregor @aammtt20 @JackosinDIS

To put to in layman’s terms… let’s say this is a DEC UY 50pt contract.

Is this considered double or triple points and is it possible?
23 / 24 / 25
100 / 100 / 50

or is below the max potential?

23 / 24 / 25
50 / 100 / 50

The bottom is example is what I mean and what I've seen the board generally use to describe purchasing a "triple-loaded" contract

 

[DonMacGregor]

There’s plenty of triple points contracts! Take this one for example:

JackosinDIS-$128-$14459-100-BCV-Jun-100/23, 196/24, 100/25- sent 2/5, passed 2/23

The 2022 points had been banked in to 2023, and were still available to be used when I closed early March ‘24. The original 2023 points had been banked in to 2024 and were also available to be used when I closed, along with the non-banked 2024 points. Granted, not all in the same reservation, that would be impossible. But one reservation in May 2024 and one in August 2024 has used all 296 points. That’s three years worth of points available right away… no borrowing involved

But you crossed into the 2024 UY between those two dates. When you purchased in February, the 2022 points were banked but you were still in your 2023 UY (June contract) and could use them. Had you tried to book a reservation in March and tried to use any of the 196 2024 points, you wouldn't have access to the 96 points banked from 2023 because points can never go back to be used their original UY, and you could only access the 100 2024 points by borrowing because you were still in 2023. You could have borrowed the 2024 points in March, April, or May, but you would not have been able to use the 96 points that were banked into 2024 until June because once points are banked, they can't be moved back.

I guarantee that you used the 2022 points before June (otherwise they would have expired), and used the 196 2024 points for the August reservation (because you were then in your 2024 UY and could use all of them without borrowing or worrying about restricted banked points.

 

[FrancisK7]

here’s how it looks for my AUL contract

 

[CastAStone]

do you all want to create a Mousecellaneous thread to talk about this? I know it makes it harder for panygal to find the actual ROFR posts when debates go on and on here.

 

[JackosinDIS]

@DonMacGregor @aammtt20 @JackosinDIS

To put to in layman’s terms… let’s say this is a DEC UY 50pt contract.

Is this considered double or triple points and is it possible?
23 / 24 / 25
100 / 100 / 50

or is below the max potential?

23 / 24 / 25
50 / 100 / 50

Scenario 1 is not possible.

Scenario 2 is the max potential. It would be the same as having 100/50/50

But you crossed into the 2024 UY between those two dates. When you purchased, the 2022 points were banked but you were still in your 2023 UY (June contract). Had you tried to book a reservation in March, you wouldn't have access to the 196 points sitting in 2024 because you were still in 2023. You could have borrowed the 2024 points in March, April, or May, but you would not have been able to use the 96 points that were banked into 2024 until June because once points are banked, they can't be moved back.

I guarantee that you used the 2022 points before June (otherwise they would have expired), and used the 196 2024 points for the August reservation (because you were then in your 2024 UY and could use all of them without borrowing.

100% agree. Yes you have to cross a UY, so entirely depends on the timing of buying the contract as compared to the UY. But there are scenarios where you immediately have 3 years worth of points ‘available’ to rent out immediately.

Phew. I think we got there… everyone’s right… let’s go back to the Island Tower threads…

 

[DonMacGregor]

do you all want to create a Mousellanious thread to talk about this? I know it makes it harder for panygal to find the actual ROFR posts when debates go on and on here.

No, I honestly thought it would be much easier to explain. Apologies to @pangyal This has gotten ridiculous (and pointless).