Robbing Peter to pay "PAUL"

[Another Voice]

There may be the hint of a silver lining in the whole California Adventure trauma after all. The argument that DCA is failing because of its quality may beginning to gain some traction. More research has gone on for this park in the last two months than went into the Manhattan Project and a few – very few – people are starting to listen.

I think this thread’s gone on long enough to scare away most people and leaving just us naysayers – so I feel safe in sharing the latest ‘Soaring’ rumors. This show is the really hot ticket at WDI at the moment and everyone wants a piece of the action. The Oriental Land Company is very, very interested in the show. They want a duplicate of ‘Soarin Over California’ for the American Waterfront section of DisneySeas (I think the area doesn’t have a major attraction right now). Not only does the attraction theme-in well, but California is a MAJOR destination for Japanese travelers and the sweeping shots of wide open Californian spaces will be wildly popular. The fit of this show with Tokyo is so strong I’m surprised no one thought of it sooner. If ‘Pooh’ can bring in an extra million, ‘Soarin’ will bring in five.

WDI is hoping that a combination of the sale to TDL and some money from corporate will allow them to create a fully programmable version of the ‘Soaring’ ride system. This Holy Grail for WDI would allow a single theater to show several different shows in the same day and allow for copies of the same system to be built inexpensively in different parks. There are many shows already in the storyboard stage. The one with the strongest buzz is ‘Soaring Over Down Under’ for Epcot’s World Showcase (the plunge into the ocean and “flying” through the Great Barrier Reef segments are supposed to be amazing if they can be filmed as written). If enough sponsors can be found, the show would serve as the centerpiece of an Australia or Australia/New Zealand mini-pavilion. More likely, it may be the first show in a ‘Millennium Pavilion’-type theater; other films of other areas would be added over time (i.e. as foreign companies pay for them). There’s also been some talk about creating ‘Soaring Over Canada’ as the replacement for the CircleVision film – but that will happen only if the Canadian government and/or sponsors pay for the reconstruction of the pavilion.

There are many, many proposals for the ride system in Animal Kingdom, but the chances of the it being used to create a new land are very remote right now. Lead candidates are for Africa, a show about birds, and a generic ‘Save the Rainforest’ concept for Conversation Station. And over at the Studios, ‘Wings’ - based on action and aviation films - will have to wait to see how well ‘Pearl Harbor’ performs. If the movie does incredibly well, this attraction could be put on the fast track.

Again these are just rumors. We’ll just have to wait and see. And remember, this conversation did not happen and I was never here…..

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

What conversation?

 

[Another Voice]

Exactly. By the time a thread reaches its fifth page, I figure even Idrok and Sarangel aren't paying attention any more and I can drop in some of the really juicy rumors. It keeps the good stuff away from the "Fire Moutain is going to be AWESOME" crowd.

 

[larworth]

Good stuff AV.

Wow, I hadn't thought about it being cost-effective to have a rotating show. This seems like a great way to build in repeatability and extend the life of the attraction. How many people would be able to see all (3,4, ?) shows on a single trip and would leave saying can't wait to go back and see the one's I missed.

With concepts being dedveloped for all parks, I assume they would only pick one for WDW? If they put one in EPCOT than would they consider one in AK as well?

The only downside I see is that Pressler was a big supporter of this ride for DCA. If his name gets associated with this ride people may get the impression that he does have some magic in him after all (ugh!).

 

[DisneyFanGuy]

AV, are they working on digital projection for the attractions? That's the one down side that I always hear about Soarin, that the film gets very dirty very quickly from all of the use.

 

[YoHo]

Couple of things
1: THe Idea that MK/Disneyland are the best parks seems obvious enough.
The other side of the equation is size. There are viable and valuable ideas in all the themeparks across the globe. Epcot is a no brainer, they took tomorrowland, added a bit of World Fair and had a brilliant park, not what Walt wanted, but more resonable then the potential spruce goose that E.P.C.O.T. could have been.
Similarly, Disney/MGM is mainstreetUSA, expanded and relocated to Hollywood. THe studios are a rosecolored look at early hollywood. I think Walt would approve. Even with the current loss of direction and Synergy (Walt was the king of synergy). Finally Animal Kingdom is a giant true life adventure film. It takes the ideas of early adventureland and frontierland and makes them real. BRILLIANT BRILIANT BRILLIANT. The failures were obvious. there simply wasn't enough in some of these parks, but their validity as Disney parks is unquestionable. Now we turn to DCA. DCA is maybe 2 distinct lands that should be rolled into DL. there simply isn't a strong enough concept there to make an entire park. And there is certainly no Classical DIsney connection.

2: AV's rumour. I really think that this could be a boon for the SOarin concept and I'm warming to the World Showcase usage, even if it is a rotating show. I will regretfully miss my SOarin over Sauron concept, but any quality e-ticket addition is Welcome. What I really wish is that they had seen the value in this concept for their Star Tour's/Body Wars) ride. Certainly having two films for those simulators would extend the life even beyond what the new show will. And extending the life of a capital investment is a very very good thing.

 

[larworth]

Good idea about a second option on the simulators. My guess is that when these were built the computer control systems just didn't have the capacity to carry another set of sequences to get the movements to jive with a second film.

Last trip it seemed that Star Tours still drew a crowd. However, on that same trip we went to Body Wars one afternoon and I not sure we say more than a couple of other people either coming or going. It was a real echo chamber in there and this was Easter week. This ride never did have the cache that ST did, but it really seems to have become forgotten. Anyone know what the relative attendance is and do you ever think it will be updated?

The way attractions get cancelled/changed it seems that their capital budget must be fairly fluid (could be shifted on a whim). If Soarin is such a hot property then surely there must be other capital projects on the books that they would delay to give this the fast track. Why wait until TDL coughs up some bucks for their version before there is money to slot this into WDW or elsewhere?

 

[ww52]

Landbaron - I also thought Neville's post (and one by DisneyFanGuy a few posts earlier) hit on a very important point - being how the "brand" may be getting tainted a bit. That was a more business-like way of what I was tryong to portray by my kid's reaction. Not to get into another topic, but the made for video sequels might be doing the same thing. As I said, my kids will be making choices on how to spend their vacation dollars themselves starting in a few years. I'm underwhlemed by the last two offerings (AK and DCA) and I can see that they are too. Without asking them (though I probably will to get their impressions first hand) I suspect they see a big difference in MK, Epcot, and DL compared to the newer parks. I know they see a big difference in the older movies and the made for videos. If the Disney brand means less to them than it does/did to me, they might be less likely to chose to pay the big bucks a Disney vacation costs when they make that decision with their own money. You would think Eisner would be looking at this group - kids of baby boomers. And maybe he was when they decided to make DCA "less Disney like" and more for older teens.

And by way of disclosure since this seems to be a point for some people: I have not been to DCA and based on the opinions I've read (and in looking myself on what it has to offer) I don't plan on going. In fact, that's the point. I was anxious to see AK and was disapointed. I might be surprised by DCA, but don't plan on investing my vacation money to see for myself. There are other places I haven't seen that I'd rather spend the money on. I doubt I'm alone, and I think Eisner might want to contemplate why.

 

[Captain Crook]

ww52, the way your looking at things (using both your & your kids perspective) gives you much credibility IMO, but the problem is there is so much difference even when taking that view. I know DidDuck has stated how his daughter loves Disney the way it is and I'm here to say that my kids (7 & 11) do as well.

They both are begging me to go to DCA this summer (we had originally planned a DL trip, but I cancelled it with the unfavorable reviews of DCA & the excessive DL attractions down for rehab), but the point is it looks neat to them.

As for the direct to video movies. I think they're lame but they are money makers and once again my kids like them a lot. They admit thay aren't as well done & the songs aren't as catchy, but they still like to watch them.
So from my perspective Disney has no problems, at this point, with their awesome brand recognition.

Lastly, I dispute that DCA is an "un-Disney" type Park. I'm like you (haven't been there) but I have faith that the place looks very Disney indeed, as do the Boardwalk & DD at WDW...They weren't typical Disney presentations, but have become Disney nonetheless. I think it incumbant upon Eisner & Disney to stretch the limit of what they do so they don't get caught in a little pigeon holed mold. Now, when they stretch the limits and don't offer a good product, for whatever reason, then I see problems.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Hey AV!! I think we need to find a new parking garage. This one's not quite dead enough yet!!

ww52

Landbaron - I also thought Neville's post (and one by DisneyFanGuy a few posts earlier) hit on a very important point - being how the "brand" may be getting tainted a bit.

You know, when I first came to DIS, as a lurker for the first few months, I really couldn't understand what everyone was talking about. They were posting things about Fire Mountain, roller coasters, thrill rides of all sorts, new rumors in the pipe line, Venetian Hotel, Mediterranean Hotel, and basically all those things that I was hearing for the last twenty years or so, in one form or another. Strangely missing from these posts were any mention of the decline that I knew was taking place. Once in a while some brave soul would ask if the magic was slipping, but he was quickly put down and speculation continued on what would replace 20K. I finally couldn't take it any more. So I signed up and started to post. But I found it VERY hard to articulate my feelings. Turning some gut feeling, hunches and overall sense I had about Disney into logical, tangent and compressive sentences was a lot harder than I thought it would be. (I still can't quite adequately articulate my feeling for the Ei$ner's caste system.) So the learning process began…

… And it continues. And this is a perfect example of how I felt it, knew it existed, but never could really verbalized it. It was an underlying current in my thought process, but never really rose to the forefront. It is now out in the open and I, for one, would like to discuss it. CHEAPENING OF THE DISNEY BRAND!! Ei$ner's good at it. Almost (note I said almost) everything he has done (more so recently) CHEAPENS the brand. Any thoughts from others?

Without asking them (though I probably will to get their impressions first hand) I suspect they see a big difference in MK, Epcot, and DL compared to the newer parks.

I agree. There is a big difference. Many will say that we must give them time for it to grow. BUT that fact alone precludes them from mention as a Disney park!!! And I further contend that you can take away the "Disney" name from MGM (how's that for confusing) and transplant the park in a different location and it could very easily have been built by Universal or some other amusement park company. IMO (only an opinion) it does not have a Disney feel to it like MK, EPCOT or even the Poly or Contemporary has. You walk into those places and that Disney "touch" jumps out at you. It doesn't jump out at me at MGM. It's just very nice. And very fun. Like Universal. Or Sea World. Or IOA. Not like MK or EPCOT. (Still feeling my way on articulating this thought. Be patient. Three or four threads and I'll have it down) Anyway, I get the same feel (although this could be merely due to size) from AK. And all reports, even favorable ones, indicate that the same is true at DCA.

And I think that is the gist I get from those posts you mentioned. If you take away EPCOT and MK and all you had to judge Disney by was MGM, AK and DCA, would any of us be here? That's not to say that we wouldn't go there. Heck, I go to Six Flags. And have a good time. But I certainly don't have any of their web sites (if there are any) book marked.

There are other places I haven't seen that I'd rather spend the money on. I doubt I'm alone, and I think Eisner might want to contemplate why.

He doesn't care why. When the ultimate effects of his regimen are finally and disastrously felt, he will be long gone and it will be some other shmuck's headache to try to get us back. If he spends even more than Walt would have (and that's a lot!) it'll still take many, many years, if at all!!

Captain (or is it Peter today!!)
I was going to go through you're post and have a little fun with it. But I've gone on too long already. So instead I'll say in two words what many paragraphs and quotes would have said. YOU'RE WRONG!! (lol)

 

[DisDuck]

Ok.. first of all.. from the first time my youngest daughter and even the older one put there foot into AK they fell in love with it. That was back in Nov 1998. They were 13 and 17 at the time.

Scroll ahead to 2000 and my now 15 yo still loves it (older does not travel with us as much - college). I to and my wife love AK. For the quietness, ambience and foliage. The feeling of less hustle and bustle. AK is a take your time park. We arrive between 8 & 9 and leave between 4 and closing. That is all day to me. 'You' have to remember that AK closes earlier than any of the other parks. So what is considered an all day park is colored by the hours of the other parks.

Now onto DCA. Maybe I will find it a bust or maybe like AK I will find it a nice change of pace.

Variety is the spice of life.

 

[YoHo]

Landbaron, I may have gravitated to your way of thinking, but I will never be so Down on the Eisner WDW parks as you are. The studios and AK are both full of Disney magic and more then mere six flaggs. I've been to Great America just like you have and I just can't agree with you. Now I think the Studios have seen a little too much Synergy lately, but in general, these parks are perfectly Disney to me. No, they're not MK, neither was Disneyland in the early days. I'm not suggesting they opened these parks correctly, merely that the themes of these parks is 100% disney and If you can't see that, then maybe you should take off your blueblockers and look in normal light. then Disduck and the Pirate can take off the rosecolered ones and you'd all be on the same page.


Irrational exuberence for the current state of the parks is unwarrented, so is irrational depression. Mosey in to the middle and we'll all talk.

 

[Captain Crook]

Landbaron says:

You're wrong!

Now I was trying find the hidden meaning here or read between the lines, but it's only two words...There are no lines!

Landbaron, I can't be wrong...You could disagree with everything I said, but I can't be wrong for it was personal fact that I was stating. My kids love todays Disney. The Parks, The Disney Channel, the movies (even the straight for video releases). This is indisputable and can't be wrong!

I would like to interject here some substantive facts from the Crook household that underscores Eisnerism's or recent Disney decisions that have made WDW a better place to vacation and resemble a Six Flaggs very little...
(1) Water Parks (summit Plummit, dude!)
(2) Cirque du Sloeil (expensive, but WOW!)
(3) Hair wrapping stations (my girls are so cute!)
(4) Fast Pass (saves so much time)
(5) Florida Seasonal Passes (saves so much money)
(6) Spectacular archetecture & Landscaping (it's just me)
(7) Live Stage Shows (we all love them)
(8) Fresh fruit stands at all Parks (we're health nuts?)
(9) Fantasmic, Illuminations & TON
(10) TT, TOT, RnR, wwtbam & AK

Most of these items were planned, bought & paid for under current management and make WDW far superior to any point in its history!

The Cheapening of the Disney Brand
This is going to be another Landbaron myth! The Disney brand is far more recognizable to more people in all parts of the world in every income level than Walt would have dared dream.

Perhaps you disagree with the marketing tactics and consider that cheapening of the quality and certainly I would agree if you mention that golf fellow's name, but the fact is I don't think to the average guest the name Disney has lost any luster whatsoever. To the fanatics (us) we can argue the merits of good decision v bad decision but the fact is more people are consistently choosing WDW as a vacation destination over any place else. That tells me the brand name is solid and so is the product.

The place was magic, the place is still magic...Will the place be magic in the future is an interesting question, but based on the current status I'd say a yes is in order, but perhaps not resounding. Yoho just put it succiently by saying

irrational exuberance & irrational depression are unwarranted (paraphrase).

But if we always agreed that wouldn't be any fun either, would it?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

... And it isn't easy!!!!

YoHo:

The studios and AK are both full of Disney magic and more then mere six flaggs.

You will note, if you reread my post, that I specifically left Six Flags out of the comparison. But, in all fairness, I then inadvertently drew the comparison a couple sentences later. Sorry. I did not mean to imply a Six Flags status on MGM or AK. I did, however, mean to compare them with Universal, IOA or even Sea World. (still formulating ideas on this subject, bear with me)

I guess I'm trying to convey the FEELING I have when I'm in MGM (and at the risk of starting a side issue the moderate and economy resorts). I'm not talking about rides (although to a certain extent they must be considered). I'm talking about the feel of the place. The layout, the architecture, the ambience, etc. I wish I could be more specific, but the words are hard to come by. I will grant you that there are certainly moments of greatness. There are many Disney-like things within these places. BUT, there are many Disney-like things in IOA, Universal and Sea World as well, yet we constantly say that these places are NOT up to Disney's standards. And I agree. But in a comparison of parks I find that MK and EPCOT share a certain Disney-like feel. And sadly I find (IMO) that MGM has more of a Universal feel than a Disney feel.

When EPCOT opened the whole place oozed Disney. And as stale as it is, to me, it still oozes Disney (although Ei$ner did destroy a good amount of that feel with that graveyard as you walk in!!). I don't get that feeling with MGM. I still get lost every time I see the Muppet Movie!! IMO it's not well thought out sometimes. No way to get back from TOT or R&RC except to double back!! A giant guitar and a few old tape recorders does not great themeing make! It's certainly fun. Nice to look at. But something I would expect from Universal, not Disney. And little things like this bug me!! And I find these little things very UN-Disney-like!! Especially when they had the PERFECT park model to build from!!

Now as far as AK. Well, that's different. And it's very hard for me to define. It certain has a Disney feel to it, for the most part (other than the narrow walkways and sometime confusing traffic flows). So it may yet grow into a wonderful Disney-like experience (or "feel"). But it ain't there yet!!!!

I'm not suggesting they opened these parks correctly, merely that the themes of these parks is 100% disney and If you can't see that, then maybe you should take off your blueblockers and look in normal light.

I think I've stated everything that I FEEL about this subject in the above dissertation. But I thought that the 'BLUEBLOCKERS" line was priceless so I just had to quote it!! lol That's what I get for the "rose-colored" cracks all the time!!!

Captain, My Captain!!!
I find that this time I have run out of room and time (quittin' time at the salt mines!!) So once again you are on hold. However, tonight, if the kids do their homework and the wife is happy, I SHALL RETURN!!! You need an answer!!!!

 

[YoHo]

Landbaron, I can only base my expireance on Universal Hollywood, since I've never been to Universal florida, I have however been to SeaWorld Orlando and Sand Diego, and I have to still not agree with your feeling. Disney/MGM studios is not anything like those parks. I'll agree that a certain amount of trffic flow problems exist. Which I blame on trying to hard to mimic a working backlot. But the themeing and the little shows are far better at the studios then at other parks I've been to. Again, I realize I'm eating a single slice when your talking a whole pie, but I just don't have the same feeling on certain of your underlying feelings. For whatever reason. And I've been to Epcot and MK and Disneyland, so I know what its "Supposed" to be like.
'


Please continue in your musings, I know what its like to not be able to articulate a feeling.

 

[Neville]

O.K. I sense that I have stumbled into an ongoing "freindly discussion," but that never stopped me from barging in before. I have to agree with Landbaron (doesn't seem like many do, so I may be on new ground).

The Studios certainly lack the Disney Magic to me. It really doesn't have a focal point (Castle, Ball etc), there is only one "true Disney ride" in Tower of Terror (RnR is off the shelf and could be at any park in U.S.), and there are too many "warehouse walls" that have been cleverly disguised with ABC advertisements. This park seemed to be "thrown together" in an attempt to (1) get additional gate revenue, and (2) trump Universal. I don't believe Walt would be impressed with that offering.

AK is more unique. Management appeared to want to do the right thing, but for some reason they stopped short of making an incredible park. My first trip was disappointing, but I was hopeful (and still am) that they would finish this great project. However, what they have done IMO is still falling short -- if you blink on Kali Rapids you miss the ride; and carnival games in Dinoland -- blasphemy. At least they laid it out so it could be finished one day, unlike MGM/Disney Studios.

Captain, to your point about the brand, I agree that Disney is one of the leading brands throughout the world. I think this is a blessing and a curse. The brand was built up on quality, unforgettable experiences, and movies that kept people coming back for more. This really propelled them to the top of the market. However, they now seem to be resting too much on brand loyalty and not putting out the product that got them to where they are today. This is a sure fired recipe for disaster (just ask Xerox, Kodak, or GM). BTW Captain I do agree with you on the landscaping, always magnificent. (I'm not sure that by agreeing with you if I lost my Landbaron-membership card...)

What I am witnessing (and I believe all of us are) is a slow erosion of the brand -- which I believe started about the time of opening of the Studios. It was a shift in management midset, from long to short-term thinking. I believe this was also around this time that Eisner starting getting bonuses the size of small countries' GDPs.

 

[Captain Crook]

Landbaron will be glad to pick up another supporter...And he'll accept your agreeing with me as long as it doesn't have to do with he who shall not be named! (the "E" guy).

I don't disagree with a lot of your assumptions but where we run aground is that same ole stumbling block we always hit (and will never get past)...Magic!

Landbaron did a great job of describing Magic a long time ago, but the feeling of that particular perception is just too personal to label right or wrong.

I know it's heresy to some but I feel more "magical" at the Studios than at MK (my least favorite Park). Landbaron doesn't see a giant guitar & the Aerosmith spiel as great themeing...I do! TOT speaks for itself and as for the looks of the Park, as Yoho I think mentioned, it is supposed to be (resemble) an actual working Studio...

Your opinions on AK and mine are very close. I love AK, but I too hope it gets finished right (meaning BK, of course). We differ in that I am not going to downplay DinoLand until I see it. I think the rollercoasters will appeal to most children & many adults & the carny atmosphere may just be able to surprise us (after all it is Disney).

Well, enough's enough and I have to start packing for my long weekend at WDW!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I have to agree with Landbaron (doesn't seem like many do, so I may be on new ground).

Oh Neville, my new found friend. I have many allies here. And I’m converting more all the time. YoHo and I almost came to blows a couple times early on, and now he sees Ei$ner for the evil, short sighted, money grubbing…. Isn’t that right YoHo? Have I misunderstood once again? (lol) Well you should have been here the first conversation or two DisDuck and I had. WOW!! Fireworks. And now… well… now… at least we get along (lol)!! Anyway, it’s not as one sided as you might imagine. Although many seem to loose interest in very long threads. Hey, some like Hemingway, some like Melville. And I like Steven King!! Long and frightening!!!

Now, you said a lot of things in your post that were absolutely stellar!! Magnificent!! Wonderful!! Brilliant!! Insightful!! Astute!! Intuitive!! Discerning!! Perceptive!! Intelligent!! Superb!! Poignant!! And very well written!! No sense quoting it all, just go back and reread it!! It’s worth it.

BTW Captain I do agree with you on the landscaping, always magnificent. (I'm not sure that by agreeing with you if I lost my Landbaron-membership card...)

Never!!! It’s a life-time card and unlike the Disney Club Card I’ll never charge you $30.00 A COPY!!! I don’t believe in a short term profit over long term good will (Hmmm, I wonder who else had that idea?) I think you may find a picture of him at the end of my post!!

And the good Captain is quite right. I agree with him all the time, but he seems to forget it. I agree the landscaping is beautiful. And as I said in my State of the Parks Address, there is much magic to be had by one and all. No, my problem with Disney is not with the park experience. It is with management. Pure and simple. And the Studios is a perfect example. MGM (IMO) is not on an equal footing with MK or EPCOT in grand scale or MAGIC. And I think the attendance numbers back me up. I believe it is in third place. There’s a reason for that. It’s just not quite as good. Almost, but not quite. And I don’t mean to degrade any personal preference. You may find it the best Captain. To each his own. Many do not.

And it could have been. Built on a grander scale it could have blown the doors off Universal and even rivaled MK!! But it fell woefully short of the mark. They could have (should have) hit a home run. Instead they chose little tap over the shortstop’s head. The batter is safe at first, but has yet to cross the plate.

It was a shift in management mindset, from long to short-term thinking. I believe this was also around this time that Eisner starting getting bonuses the size of small countries' GDPs.

What style this guy’s got!! But seriously, many have been preaching the same thing around here. Short term vs. long term. And I think many are finally starting to understand. Now if we can only wake up the Board of Directors we might get them thinking for the next ten years instead of the next quarterly report!!

And If you really want membership – The proper spelling is E-I-$-N-E-R. Go on. Try it. It’s fun!!!!

Landbaron did a great job of describing Magic a long time ago,

Thanks.

Well, enough's enough and I have to start packing for my long weekend at WDW!

Well! That must be one heck of a long weekend!! You have to start packing already and it’s only Monday!!!

 

[Captain Crook]

We are actually leaving Wed. night to go to my parents (Vero Beach) and over to WDW on Thur. am. But I get so excited about going that I start packing days before it's time. I'm thinking about just keeping a permanent bag 'at the ready' at all times, just in case!

And that brings me to another point. I visit WDW so often, yet I'm not getting sick of it. Without going into the minute deatils this time, doesn't this perspective of mine (shared by other Florida DIS regulars like gcurling & JeffH) indicate an intrinsic health surrounding the World and the Magic within? Or are we simply rose colored glasses wearing kind of guys who happen to get a great deal of pleasure using their Annual Passes? (each time we use it our average cost decreases, hehehe).

Note to Landbaron: This was obviously another 'fat one' for your musings...You can either take the easy way or perhaps take the high road and examine the 'all is OK' perspective a little closer. LOL!

Oh and Landbaron, I know you won't charge Neville the $30.00 annual fee, but only because you know he won't pay it! Unlike WDW our discussions here on the DIS are priceless (in the opposite sense of the usual interpretation!).

 

[YoHo]

YoHo and I almost came to blows a couple times early on, and now he sees Ei$ner for the evil, short sighted, money grubbing…. Isn’t that right YoHo?

I don't think he's evil, and I firmly believe that the shortsightedness and Money grubbing are relativly new traits for E$sner. Nonetheless, I have moved over at least to the middle.

But, the good Captain makes a good observation, the value of the annual pass not withstanding, why is it the more frequent visitors are seeing fewer holes? surely logic dictates that the more chances you have to see the crumbling Fascade, the more likely you are to really see it.

On the other hand, guests like Landbaron and myself who go at best once a year are more likely to be shocked by "negative" changes.

For instance, E-nights are completely irrelevant to someone who goes 10 times a year and thus can be more picky. when you hae to cram it all in to a week or 2. AND pay extra for that which you expected before..... Of course, when they were leaving the parks open late, I was passed out by 9:00 so it had little affect on me. Now when I'm old enough to be up that late, I'm charged for E-nights, or I'm charged for Pleasure Island, but pleasure Island comes with the LOS pass and having never expireanced the parks open til one anyway, E-night seems reasonable.



So, now we have a question. Is it truely less magical? or is it merely a different magic? Pleasure Island is magical to me. And relativly speaking, its free.


I don't know, I'm just rambling now, but it seems to me that a lot of this, as Captain points out is subjective and as such is hard to quantify. Also, even though there are many who agree to larger opinions, Eisner is good, Eisner is bad, the minutia are quite different. What bothers Landbaron is different from what bothers me, from what bpthers JeffJewel, from what bothers Another Voice.

Thus we get into these little scabbles until someone (landbaron more then likely) says SEE, SEE, Look at all this complaining, it must be all bad. When really he doesn't feel the same way about half of the comments.

Subjective and hard to quantify.


But darn fun.