RN vs. MD

[booger73]

I have just one question for Dr. Booger.

Please tell me you're not an ENT.

Haha.. Pea, you just made me ROFL..
I never considered that when I was signing up..
but No.. not an ENT

 

[booger73]

RN vs MD

My take on it:

The doctor cures (hopefully) my disease.
My nurse cures Me.

In our household, that is how we view RN vs MD. Both critical to the care of the human, balancing each other in different aspects of medicine.

"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease."

 

[DonDraper]

There is no way they would let him shadow an rn.

Why not? As long as he completes HIPPA training, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[justhat]

Sounds to me like your husband's friend didn't play his cards right when it came to the matching process. By the time matching comes around, I think folks should have a pretty good idea of the fields they can get into and which ones are a bit of a stretch. You can select as many residency programs as you want when you rank them. I'm guessing this guy just marked down all his anesthesiology choices thinking he would for sure get into one of them? That's unfortunate. That sounds like the applicants who have a 4.0 undergrad, 40 MCAT, and only apply to Harvard/Johns Hopkins/Cal-SanFran thinking they're guaranteed a slot. Not a particularly astute move.

Yes, that is true, but you have to pay to apply to each program. When you're already taking out $50K in loans each year, spending hundreds on each application can get out of hand. This guy applied to about 10 anesthesia programs and 10 ophthomology programs and from what I remember the only interview he got was for the anesthesia program at his med school. And that they have to do out of courtesy to each of their own students who apply.

However, you CANNOT rank as many programs as you want in the match process. You can only rank the places who interview you, and seeing as how that basically left him with one.... And by the time you realize you aren't getting many interviews, it's too late to apply to more residencies as they have likely already filled their interview quota. And you don't get a message that you are not getting an interview, they just never respond. So you're left waiting, which can leave you in a lurch.

This particular guy thought that his grades would be enough to overcome his Step 1/2 scores. He was wrong.

My point is, one needs to be realistic about their options and realize that not everyone can do what they want. In any career.

Dermatology residency programs are very hard to get into. At least the really good ones.

My derm. did her residency at Johns Hopkins. She said that back when she did her residency (about 8 years ago) that they accepted 4 residents for the first year and after that, they only select 3 residents to finish the program.

So they have 10 residents at any one time.
4- PGY 2
3- PGY 3
3- PGY 4

They get up to 500 applicants and only interview 30---and they only choose 4

I can believe that. A friend from college (we went to Johns Hopkins) ended up going back there for his Peds residency and he said their peds program even has similar numbers to what you posted, and peds isn't typically too hard to get into!

 

[justhat]

Why not? As long as he completes HIPPA training, it shouldn't be an issue.

Where my husband went to med school (GWU), this was not allowed. No one other than students (med/nursing/PA) were allowed to work alongside staff members in the hospital. I imagine a dr's office might let you, but even then, the liability would probably stop most physicians from considering it for their office.

 

[DonDraper]

Where my husband went to med school (GWU), this was not allowed. No one other than students (med/nursing/PA) were allowed to work alongside staff members in the hospital. I imagine a dr's office might let you, but even then, the liability would probably stop most physicians from considering it for their office.

I shadow all the time at some major teaching hospitals here in Chicago. Doctors and Nurses.

 

[DonDraper]

Yes, that is true, but you have to pay to apply to each program. When you're already taking out $50K in loans each year, spending hundreds on each application can get out of hand. This guy applied to about 10 anesthesia programs and 10 ophthomology programs and from what I remember the only interview he got was for the anesthesia program at his med school. And that they have to do out of courtesy to each of their own students who apply.

I guess I'm just a little baffled that if he had some interest in peds, why not apply to at least a couple residencies as a back up? They're not difficult at all to get into and he could have avoided the transitional year.

 

[laurie31]

His #1 is a teaching hospital. There is no way they would let him shadow an rn. Even the volunteers I saw when I had 7 operations at this hospital gave me some shampoo,toothpaste kit and a cup of ice once.

His #1 school has NO interview process. Its only a minimum of 3 recommendations. He does have a number 2 school in mind. The only issue would be housing, at the teaching hosp./univ where he will be a student, he just commutes.Where I live, housig is VERY expensive! #2 he would probably have to rent somewhere$$.

Teaching hospitals LIVE for that sort of thing! He just needs to go through Nursing Education or Nursing Recruitment to set it up.

Volunteers are not there to learn. Well, yes, they CAN learn, but their role is to HELP. Thus passing out toiletries. DD14 volunteers at a teaching hospital and she gets to clean stretchers and restock supplies. But high school kids interested in nursing can shadow a nurse. It's totally different from the volunteer program. She shadowed an RN in the NICU a few weekends ago.

 

[honugirl]

I'm in the middle of trying to see where I'm going to go and what I want to do. Based on what I've dealt with during my own medical journey, med school is very much where I want to go and where I want to be. But I don't know if physically my body can handle it because of what my disease has done to me and the treatment I had to go through.

I've considered PA and nursing. I've basically ruled out nursing because there isn't enough ability to actively order tests, diagnose and treat complex endocrine disorders like mine. PA would be better, but I don't know if I would still have the autonomy necessary to practice the way medicine needs to be practiced to effectively diagnose and treat my disease. There would be no point in going to school to be a PA if I have to have an MD looking over my shoulder.

My only other option is a PhD in biochemistry to go into research and hopefully find someone willing to fund what I need to do, but the chances of that happening are slim to none unless I can find an MD with an interest in complex endocrine disorders.

None of those choices will be an easy road. It's pretty sad when you feel like the only way you will ever get help or make life better for people with your disease is to attain equal status to the jerk MD's that you've dealt with. I think I'd be a really good endocrinologist and I think I'd really enjoy it, but I know part of the reason I want to go in this direction is survivors guilt. After going through what I've gone through and seen what my friends have gone through, I have to become an endocrinologist to save our lives. I guess I'm either going to become an endo or literally die trying.

 

[babynurse1]

But you're right - you and I think very differently. It saddens me that you have this view of yourself and your profession. And for the record, I couldn't disagree more. Where I work we are teams, and each role is as important as the other.
.

That is not what I said at all. You said I took you out of context and you certainly took me out of context.


We are nothing without doctors and they are nothing without us. Of course it is a team effort. And I truly believe that housekeeping, dietary, engineering etc. are all vital parts of seeing that our patient is provided with excellent care and aides them in their road to recovery.


Do you want to tell me that I think that I am nothing when my postpartum patient was hemorrhaging yesterday and had over 2000cc blood loss and there was no doctor around?

Do you want to tell me that I think I am nothing when a newborn decided breathing wasn't on his list of priorities at 2 a.m. and there was no doctor around?


I think both of these patients and their families agreed I played a vital role not only in their recovery, but also in saving their life.

Please do not put words in my mouth, please do not act like my "responses" are ignorant or unintelligent. I am very proud to be a nurse. And I am very proud to work with doctors who consider me a part of their team. and vice versa

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Do you want to tell me that I think that I am nothing when my postpartum patient was hemorrhaging yesterday and had over 2000cc blood loss and there was no doctor around?

Do you want to tell me that I think I am nothing when a newborn decided breathing wasn't on his list of priorities at 2 a.m. and there was no doctor around?


I think both of these patients and their families agreed I played a vital role not only in their recovery, but also in saving their life.

But babynurse, this was my point exactly.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Haha.. Pea, you just made me ROFL..
I never considered that when I was signing up..
but No.. not an ENT

Ha! It actually flew past my radar but my DH picked up on it. "Who's Booger, an ENT?"

 

[Pea-n-Me]

RN vs MD

My take on it:

The doctor cures (hopefully) my disease.
My nurse cures Me.

My nurse may not be able to give the tylenol without the doc, but he/she sure knows when I need that tylenol.

They can both function independently, but are best together.

Thank you.

Just to add two things.

The nurse will work really hard on your behalf behind the scenes to get you that tylenol.

I regret earlier in the thread when I said the doctor cures the disease. What I should have said is that the doctor cures the person's disease. Because the more I thought about it it sounded like docs focus more on the disease than the person and that's not true. They do both. I'm going to go back and change it.

 

[enigmaticorange]

This is a question often asked by those who do not actively work in a hospital setting, so I don't hold it against them to not know any better. The truth is, they are very different careers and asking "Why wouldn't you become a doctor instead?" has an obviously negative tone. So remember when you ask this- how would you feel if someone said to you- you are only a teacher? Wouldn't you rather be a rocket scientist? They do different things, require different education.

 

[KristaTX]

That is not what I said at all. You said I took you out of context and you certainly took me out of context.

Kind of catching up on this thread right now. Gotta agree with babynurse1, Pea. You're taking her joke too seriously. She's a nurse,too; she's entitled to make jokes. It was obvious to me when I read it the other day, and it was to other people, too. And besides, a nurse actually might notify the doctor, mightn't he/she? I mean on top of everything else that people have mentioned here.

Now if someone who was NOT a nurse said that's what a nurse should do, or if babynurse had been serious that that's all she'd do, then you'd have a point. But she wasn't. Let it go.

 

[tasha99]

Kind of catching up on this thread right now. Gotta agree with babynurse1, Pea. You're taking her joke too seriously. She's a nurse,too; she's entitled to make jokes. It was obvious to me when I read it the other day, and it was to other people, too. And besides, a nurse actually might notify the doctor, mightn't he/she? I mean on top of everything else that people have mentioned here.

Now if someone who was NOT a nurse said that's what a nurse should do, or if babynurse had been serious that that's all she'd do, then you'd have a point. But she wasn't. Let it go.

x2

 

[justhat]

I shadow all the time at some major teaching hospitals here in Chicago. Doctors and Nurses.

That's great, but like I said, in DC that was NOT an option at all. You had to be a student. Not necessarily at one of their schools, as they had visiting students all the time, but you needed to be a student in one of those programs.

I guess I'm just a little baffled that if he had some interest in peds, why not apply to at least a couple residencies as a back up? They're not difficult at all to get into and he could have avoided the transitional year.

I thought I said it, but rereading my quote to you, I guess not. He would have, and ultimately did, but he thought he'd at least get a couple of interviews in Ophtho or Anesthesia. When he saw none of those options were panning out, he sent out a few applications to peds programs, as well as some internal medicine. But by that time it was too late. They had finished given out all of their interview slots and he was out of luck. And he did this in October, so not like he waited till January or anything like that. And he wasn't the only person who didn't match at all that year, of course. Plenty of other people didn't match and needed to find a place in the scramble. Happens every year.

 

[npmommie]

I'm in the middle of trying to see where I'm going to go and what I want to do. Based on what I've dealt with during my own medical journey, med school is very much where I want to go and where I want to be. But I don't know if physically my body can handle it because of what my disease has done to me and the treatment I had to go through.

I've considered PA and nursing. I've basically ruled out nursing because there isn't enough ability to actively order tests, diagnose and treat complex endocrine disorders like mine. PA would be better, but I don't know if I would still have the autonomy necessary to practice the way medicine needs to be practiced to effectively diagnose and treat my disease. There would be no point in going to school to be a PA if I have to have an MD looking over my shoulder.

My only other option is a PhD in biochemistry to go into research and hopefully find someone willing to fund what I need to do, but the chances of that happening are slim to none unless I can find an MD with an interest in complex endocrine disorders.

None of those choices will be an easy road. It's pretty sad when you feel like the only way you will ever get help or make life better for people with your disease is to attain equal status to the jerk MD's that you've dealt with. I think I'd be a really good endocrinologist and I think I'd really enjoy it, but I know part of the reason I want to go in this direction is survivors guilt. After going through what I've gone through and seen what my friends have gone through, I have to become an endocrinologist to save our lives. I guess I'm either going to become an endo or literally die trying.

I just want to jump in here so no one gets the wrong impression of nursing.
you are correct in that an RN cannot order tests and treat. BUT an Advance Practice Nurse ( Nurse Practitioner ) can. I am an NP and I can work independently without an MD looking over my shoulder. I have the autonomy to diagnose, treat, order tests, etc in any setting.
I actually worked in Endocrinology before I left to have babies

so don't rule out nursing, you just have to go the NP route. We work independently

 

[honugirl]

I just want to jump in here so no one gets the wrong impression of nursing.
you are correct in that an RN cannot order tests and treat. BUT an Advance Practice Nurse ( Nurse Practitioner ) can. I am an NP and I can work independently without an MD looking over my shoulder. I have the autonomy to diagnose, treat, order tests, etc in any setting.
I actually worked in Endocrinology before I left to have babies

so don't rule out nursing, you just have to go the NP route. We work independently

Thanks! That's nteresting. Good to know! I will keep that in mind.

Part of me wants a little revenge on the endocrine community that told me I wasn't sick, I was nuts, that my BLA was a death sentence, by being able to stand toe to toe with them.

 

[babynurse1]

But babynurse, this was my point exactly.

Maybe we just started off on the wrong foot. My joke about "call the doctor stat" obviously rubbed you the wrong way.

I certainly did not mean to imply that all we do is call the MD. It was just a little bit of ironic sarcasm on my part to say "call the doctor stat" on a thread entitled RN vs MD.

Mea culpa.