Riviera - studio availability

[Flash_Sloth]

The more and more RIV resale bought. More people will be booking at 11 months maybe 11+. Right now it might not be bad. But in 20-30 years things will be totally different. I foresee standard view rooms ( probably even 1 and 2 bedrooms) and duo studio room being walked for the majority of the year.

Not only that, but up to this point, they've always declared more points into inventory than points sold. Once RIV becomes a sold out resort, competition will be that much more challenging. And as you mentioned, over the years as contracts are bought & sold, more points become resale points that can only be used at RIV (or II exchange), and it will probably become even more challenging.

I have a feeling that resale owners are at a higher risk of losing points, especially when life events happen and they have to cancel in the 7 month window.

But with that said, RIV is one of our favorite resorts and we look forward to each stay here. We have direct points so we could stay elsewhere, but love staying at RIV.

 

[muppets3d]

The more and more RIV resale bought. More people will be booking at 11 months maybe 11+. Right now it might not be bad. But in 20-30 years things will be totally different. I foresee standard view rooms ( probably even 1 and 2 bedrooms) and duo studio room being walked for the majority of the year.

That's how DVC has worked since the beginning - your points are only good at your home resort between months 7-11 - you can exchange at other resorts, subject to availability, after the 7 month window opens. The only difference with Riviera is, if you buy resale - your points are only good at Riviera, no matter when you're booking.

Unless we assume that people are buying Riviera today as sleep around points and not booking their home resort, I am not convinced that things will be all that different in 20 years, frankly.

It just means that resale owners will have to be more diligent about making their bookings during the home resort priority window, especially if they want standard/resort view rooms. Once other owners can exchange in to the resort, availability gets tight.

 

[muppets3d]

Not only that, but up to this point, they've always declared more points into inventory than points sold. Once RIV becomes a sold out resort, competition will be that much more challenging. And as you mentioned, over the years as contracts are bought & sold, more points become resale points that can only be used at RIV (or II exchange), and it will probably become even more challenging.

I have a feeling that resale owners are at a higher risk of losing points, especially when life events happen and they have to cancel in the 7 month window.

But with that said, RIV is one of our favorite resorts and we look forward to each stay here. We have direct points so we could stay elsewhere, but love staying at RIV.

I can definitely see standard view and tower studios being tough to get (they aren't the easiest to get now) - but I don't buy into the doom and gloom about the resale restricted points. Obviously resale buyers will have to be diligent about booking within the priority window, and there may not be much open once other owners can exchange in. But honestly, that's how DVC has worked for years now - after the 7 month window opens, availability really tightens up at most resorts.

I would say if I were a resale buyer at Riviera, I wouldn't buy just enough points to do a standard view or tower studio. I'd give myself some cushion to go preferred or 1 bedroom if I had to.

I think the main issue with Riviera here is not the resale restrictions, it's the points premium for preferred view and the preferred view really isn't anything great - especially when a lot of standard/resort view rooms have a fireworks view.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Every time I get close to submitting an offer on a Riviera resale contract another question/worry comes up!

Does anyone have direct experience of booking studios at Riviera (I'd be happy with tower or either deluxe view option)? I'm looking to buy enough points to get one of these room types (a 1BR would be too big for what I need) but I'm now stressing about not being able to get one of these rooms and not being able to use my points. My preferred time to visit would be early May or September/October but I have some flexibility and would always be booking on the dot of 11 months.

Buy direct. Why lock yourself into one resort for 40 years+?

 

[airjay75]

A couple other thoughts on RIV resale restrictions.

1. The restrictions also affect non-RIV resale contracts and, as time goes on, a greater and greater percentage of other DVC resorts will be held by resale owners who will also not be able to book at RIV. No, that won't affect the 7-11 month window, but it could alleviate pressure on the resort overall. Of course, that will be offset, to some degree, by direct points sold for new resorts as they come online - we really don't know how that balance will play out over time and it could fluctuate depending on the percentage of resale contract holders vs. how fast new resorts come online.

2. Non-RIV resale contract holders, over time, will have less and less resorts for which they can use their points at the 7 month mark - so, if there is increased pressure on the 7-11 month booking window at RIV, that will also eventually happen with resale contracts at other DVC resorts too. If that happens, it isn't going to happy at just RIV (although RIV might be the first), and that could be something where Disney decides to do something (for example, provide a $$ way for resale contract holders to bring their points back into the fold). That said, as @muppets3d pointed out, that is also how DVC works, and I'm not sure your average restricted resale contract holder is going to be any more or less likely to effectively plan their vacation far enough in advance to put any more pressure on the 7-11 month window than will exist when the resort of sold out.

3. I suspect most folks currently in the market for a resale RIV contract are either (1) already direct RIV points holders or, (2) people who hold resale contracts at other DVC resorts they can't use at RIV, and just want some points to use at RIV. Group 1 are just looking to increase their direct points at RIV for more/better bookings - presumably they are are already booking in the 7-11 month window, but looking for different rooms, which is just going to shift demand. And, as direct holders, they may well be using a fair amount of their points for other resorts once the 7 month window open up. Group 2 are probably not looking to make RIV their only/primary DVC home and could be buying points they only plan to use once every other year or just a few days here and there.

Bottom line, none of us have a crystal ball as to exactly how it will all shake out. There are a lot factors at play. Of course, I'm sure we all wish DVC had never implemented these restrictions (and hope springs eternal that they will somehow reverse course), but it may not be quite as bad as some anticipate in the future. On the other hand, as a direct RIV owner, I could well be whistling past the graveyard to justify my next purchase of RIV points!

 

[muppets3d]

Group 1 are just looking to increase their direct points at RIV for more/better bookings - presumably they are are already booking in the 7-11 month window, but looking for different rooms, which is just going to shift demand. And, as direct holders, they may well be using a fair amount of their points for other resorts once the 7 month window open up.

That's me. I'm considering a resale Riviera contract to supplement my direct points for larger accommodations and to allow me to use my direct points at other resorts with less guilt. Riviera, being a tower resort, has reasonable dues so makes a good choice. There's no way I would ever consider a resale cabins at fort wilderness contract, that's for sure.

 

[Sandisw]

A couple other thoughts on RIV resale restrictions.

1. The restrictions also affect non-RIV resale contracts and, as time goes on, a greater and greater percentage of other DVC resorts will be held by resale owners who will also not be able to book at RIV. No, that won't affect the 7-11 month window, but it could alleviate pressure on the resort overall. Of course, that will be offset, to some degree, by direct points sold for new resorts as they come online - we really don't know how that balance will play out over time and it could fluctuate depending on the percentage of resale contract holders vs. how fast new resorts come online.

2. Non-RIV resale contract holders, over time, will have less and less resorts for which they can use their points at the 7 month mark - so, if there is increased pressure on the 7-11 month booking window at RIV, that will also eventually happen with resale contracts at other DVC resorts too. If that happens, it isn't going to happy at just RIV (although RIV might be the first), and that could be something where Disney decides to do something (for example, provide a $$ way for resale contract holders to bring their points back into the fold). That said, as @muppets3d pointed out, that is also how DVC works, and I'm not sure your average restricted resale contract holder is going to be any more or less likely to effectively plan their vacation far enough in advance to put any more pressure on the 7-11 month window than will exist when the resort of sold out.

3. I suspect most folks currently in the market for a resale RIV contract are either (1) already direct RIV points holders or, (2) people who hold resale contracts at other DVC resorts they can't use at RIV, and just want some points to use at RIV. Group 1 are just looking to increase their direct points at RIV for more/better bookings - presumably they are are already booking in the 7-11 month window, but looking for different rooms, which is just going to shift demand. And, as direct holders, they may well be using a fair amount of their points for other resorts once the 7 month window open up. Group 2 are probably not looking to make RIV their only/primary DVC home and could be buying points they only plan to use once every other year or just a few days here and there.

Bottom line, none of us have a crystal ball as to exactly how it will all shake out. There are a lot factors at play. Of course, I'm sure we all wish DVC had never implemented these restrictions (and hope springs eternal that they will somehow reverse course), but it may not be quite as bad as some anticipate in the future. On the other hand, as a direct RIV owner, I could well be whistling past the graveyard to justify my next purchase of RIV points!

Here is the other thing that we all need to remember. DVC can change the length of the home resort booking period.

They can shorten it to as little as one month but can make it as large as they want.

And, they don’t have to have the same one for every resort.

Let’s say that in 20 years resale owners of the restricted resorts are having a hard time and in risk of losing points, DVC could make the home resort period 6 months and not 4 months…which mean no trading in or out until 5 months l.

It’s why I think buying a resort you don’t mind staying at is important because the 7 month trading window can be amended.

 

[HFJohnson]

Buy direct. Why lock yourself into one resort for 40 years+?

Because I would be paying double for something I don't currently want or need. I'm trying to find the most economical way to buy into DVC so I can test the waters and if it works for me I may well look buy another contract, either direct or at a different resort like CCV to expand my options, a few years down the line. I've looked at SSR because of the value and flexibility it offers but I just wasn't feeling it.

The question now is how many points to buy, particularly following the recent news about renting. On that thread the advice seems to be to only buy the points I need and to not buy with the intention of renting them out. But then I might struggle to get the studio room I want. If I buy more points to give me more flexibility but DO get the studio room I want will there be an issue with renting the excess every other year?! Personally I don't think Disney are going to be fussed about a small 150 point contract and I don't think renting out that number of points constitutes commercial renting but who knows.

 

[walt34]

Because I would be paying double for something I don't currently want or need. I'm trying to find the most economical way to buy into DVC so I can test the waters and if it works for me I may well look buy another contract, either direct or at a different resort like CCV to expand my options, a few years down the line. I've looked at SSR because of the value and flexibility it offers but I just wasn't feeling it.

This is one of the reasons that have kept me from buying RIV direct: the restrictions are mostly irrelevant if you know that you'll keep it for decades. If you don't know that and decide to sell sooner, the spread between direct price and resale price is quite high.

Buying RIV resale mitigates that risk but you lose out on the option of trying different DVC resorts with the same points.

 

[walt34]

And as you mentioned, over the years as contracts are bought & sold, more points become resale points that can only be used at RIV (or II exchange), and it will probably become even more challenging.

I've been wondering about that. As the resale restrictions seem to maintain quite a spread between direct and resale prices, maybe DVD will keep selling RIV at a higher volume than other 'sold out' resorts? ROFR'ing the points at $100 and selling them as direct at $220+ seems quite a nice profit margin.
Maybe this will keep the percentage of resale points at RIV lower than at other resorts?

I could imagine that DVD keeps selling RIV more actively at least until another new EPCOT area resort becomes available, which might be years after Lakeshore Lodge goes online, as nothing has been announced yet.

 

[airjay75]

This is one of the reasons that have kept me from buying RIV direct: the restrictions are mostly irrelevant if you know that you'll keep it for decades. If you don't know that and decide to sell sooner, the spread between direct price and resale price is quite high.

Buying RIV resale mitigates that risk but you lose out on the option of trying different DVC resorts with the same points.

I'll just note on the direct-resale spread that, if you break your RIV points into 50 point contracts, the spread is currently a good degree smaller than I had realized. Those small contracts can sell for as much as $140-$145 pp. With incentives, you can buy direct points for under $200 pp. Of course, with Poly, you can buy direct points for the same price, and a 50 point resale contract there can go up to around $180 (which is just crazy to me - no idea why you'd buy resale there right now). One could see small RIV contracts maintaining their value on the resale market or, even increasing, once the resort is sold out and Disney is only willing to sell direct points without incentives at $275 pp or more. If you're a direct holder and need just 50 more points, you'll probably be willing to pay a premium in the resale market to save money over direct.

There I go talking myself into buying more direct RIV points .

 

[airjay75]

I've been wondering about that. As the resale restrictions seem to maintain quite a spread between direct and resale prices, maybe DVD will keep selling RIV at a higher volume than other 'sold out' resorts? ROFR'ing the points at $100 and selling them as direct at $220+ seems quite a nice profit margin.
Maybe this will keep the percentage of resale points at RIV lower than at other resorts?

I could imagine that DVD keeps selling RIV more actively at least until another new EPCOT area resort becomes available, which might be years after Lakeshore Lodge goes online, as nothing has been announced yet.

Another really good point. This could be part of Disney's long-term plan with respect to resale restrictions. Depress the resale market, make it easier to ROFR, and the sell them direct at "sold out" rates.

 

[marmentrout85]

The Resort View (formerly known as standard view) studios can sometimes be a challenge to book at 11 months. I've attempted 2 days in a row this week for next May, right as the clock hit 8am, and was unsuccessful. Thankfully, on my 3rd try/day I apparently was quick enough to book one.

 

[Dobermanns]

I have resale RIV points. I primarily book race weekends (Tues/Wed to Mon/Tues). My experience has been if I book right at 11 months, I haven’t had any issues booking tower or standard view for January, February and April. I have also booked both a standard view for me and a tower for my friend (arriving a couple days after me) pre-cruise in Oct once.
A few years ago I forgot and missed booking marathon weekend in Jan by about 20 days or so, I couldn’t get all my days even in prefer view (Fri and Sat were booked).
But RIV isn’t my only home resort. So if you are starting with resale RIV only, as long as you have flexibility with the actual dates with the general timeframe, I think you should be fine.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Because I would be paying double for something I don't currently want or need. I'm trying to find the most economical way to buy into DVC so I can test the waters and if it works for me I may well look buy another contract, either direct or at a different resort like CCV to expand my options, a few years down the line. I've looked at SSR because of the value and flexibility it offers but I just wasn't feeling it.

The question now is how many points to buy, particularly following the recent news about renting. On that thread the advice seems to be to only buy the points I need and to not buy with the intention of renting them out. But then I might struggle to get the studio room I want. If I buy more points to give me more flexibility but DO get the studio room I want will there be an issue with renting the excess every other year?! Personally I don't think Disney are going to be fussed about a small 150 point contract and I don't think renting out that number of points constitutes commercial renting but who knows.

You wouldn’t really be buying into “DVC”, you’d be buying into RIV and only RIV.

Not worth it, IMO.