Riviera Sales by the numbers (vs CCV) for 2019 - (December added 1/16/2020)

[Bing Showei]

For the cost of going to Jamaica 3 times I can buy 160 points and go to Disney for 50 years and I like Disney.

(cough) $200K in annual dues (cough)

 

[Bing Showei]

As an SSR I’ve heard worse for a lot longer

SSR can duke it out with Riviera for title of reddest headed stepchild.

 

[kboo]

@Madame - thanks for responding; I understand what you meant much better now. And, I am very sorry for your loss. I am already over 46.

@Bing Showei - I appreciate your humor and sarcasm.

I'm a Disney person too - I have been going to WDW for more than 40 years. I believe that had the timing of OKW been different, we would have been one of the original OKW owners. But it was just a little too late for my parents, who had just bought their first (and only, for a long time) RCI timeshare about 10 years earlier, and much too early for me - we were only financially able to afford DVC with no financing after paying off our construction loan and a few years into having our 1st kid, then I had to do a couple years of research here on the DIS (and get used to going to WDW with my kid(s), rent points, use APs, etc.) At best, we could have been in a financial position to buy around 2014, but I certainly wasn't in any informational position to do so.

 

[Spark65]

(cough) $200K in annual dues (cough)

Bing it's not 200K with increases it could reach 140K at least but prices go up and so do maintenance costs. Do you think any vacation destinations or hotel prices will hold their prices for the next 50 years as well?

I am just glad your helping the rest of us pay those maintenance points

 

[kboo]

SSR can duke it out with Riviera for title of reddest headed stepchild.

At this point, with the renovations and ability to trade into the L14, SSR is like Merida or Ariel, while RIV is like Madam Medusa or Syndrome

 

[Bing Showei]

Bing it's not 200K with increases it could reach 140K at least but prices go up and so do maintenance costs. Do you think any vacation destinations or hotel prices will hold their prices for the next 50 years as well?

I am just glad your helping the rest of us pay those maintenance points

At 4% increases annually starting when I project Riviera to sell out (2022), it does come to $200K on a 160 point contract. Granted, that's not taking into account the value in 2019 dollars, so that number is deceptively high, but my point is it's more than 3 visits to Jamaica... unless you are REALLY living it up there, mon.

 

[Spark65]

At 4% increases annually starting when I project Riviera to sell out (2022), it does come to $200K on a 160 point contract. Granted, that's not taking into account the value in 2019 dollars, so that number is deceptively high, but my point is it's more than 3 visits to Jamaica... unless you are REALLY living it up there, mon.

Bing I was showing to go to Jamaica 3 times it would cost more than buying 160 points at RIV. Now if you want to factor in the cost of points over 50 years as well don't forget to add 50 years of Jamaica with annual adjustments to costs there as well.

 

[Bing Showei]

Bing I was showing to go to Jamaica 3 times it would cost more than buying 160 points at RIV. Now if you want to factor in the cost of points over 50 years as well don't forget to add 50 years of Jamaica with annual adjustments to costs there as well.

For the cost of going to Jamaica 3 times I can buy 160 points and go to Disney for 50 years and I like Disney.

Words matter.

 

[Spark65]

Words matter.

Your too technical!

 

[Brianstl]

A Direct Riviera purchase is affirmative support for the current resale restrictions. There's not much debating that. If no one bought Riviera, Disney would have to ask "Why is this not selling? What's different about this product than what we've sold so well in the past. Is this worth us continuing down this path? Have we taken this a step too far?"

I've made no attempt to hide that I hate the new restrictions. I want those new restrictions to be withdrawn. I want the new restrictions to fail. But they won't fail. They won't fail because people who don't know what a "resale" is will continue to buy on a whim. People who are so rich they don't really care will pay cash and not think twice about it. People who are super knowledgeable and amazing contributors on the DISboards will continue to buy the resort. Not enough people are bothered by the restrictions for it to make a difference with sales. Sales are keeping pace with CCV. Riviera, Reflections, and every timeshare that comes after it will sell out just like every other timeshare that came before it.

So why are informed, educated, intelligent people buying Riviera? Because they're self-serving. They made a personal choice that their family benefits more from owning at Riviera than protesting and not owning there. They made a personal choice that they would be happier owning than taking a stand agains the ills of the new restrictions. They are happier owning Riviera than sitting on the sidelines wishing they didn't have to pay cash to stay near Epcot during F&W.

In this same vein, every resale buyer post-2011 laid down the foundations for Disney to create the latest resale restrictions. As a post-2016 resale owner, I said to Disney in no uncertain terms, "You have created a 2nd class system of owners, and I am OK with that. I will buy into and support the system and reaffirm the choices you've made to do this." My purchase encouraged Disney to explore what else they can do to differentiate the direct product from the resale product. Reduced value contracts continued to sell and sell well. Buying resale post-2011, every resale owner acquiesced to the creation of a two-tier system that told Disney they haven't taken the restrictions far enough.

And today, keeping my timeshare, I'm telling Disney that what they're doing with the resale restrictions is OK with me and I will continue to support the system. There's not much debating this either.

So as someone who rails so hard against the restrictions, why do I keep my ownership? Because I'm self serving. I made the personal choice that my family benefits more from owning than protesting and not owning. I made the personal choice that I would be happier owning, despite spouting from my soapbox about the ills of the new restrictions. I am happier owning than sitting on the sideline wishing I didn't have to pay cash to stay on site.

So here we are. Every owner is culpable. I don't begrudge Riviera owners for buying. They're doing the same exact thing I'm doing: deciding what's best for their family. I'm not buying Riviera. Not because I'm making some kind of grand statement or protest, but because I have assessed that my own family is better served not doing that. You can be sure if after detailed, thoughtful, and thorough analysis, it was determined that this was a good move for my family (read: my wife wanted to own there), that while I would be just as upset with the restrictions... just probably a lot less vocal.

Kudos to your for speaking out, kboo. The reality is in this little Disney timeshare game, The Walt Disney Company, Inc., Riviera owners, resale owners, direct owners, we're all just making choices that best serves our own needs, and no owner owes anyone else anything.

I'll be making more of an effort to delineate my displeasure with resale restrictions from Riviera ownership. My apologies to any Riviera owners I've offended if that has been muddled in the past.

I don’t think it is that people are being self serving people just like to buy stuff that makes them feel good on an emotional level. A DVC purchase much like a Disney vacation itself is an emotional purchase and not a rational one. All the the attempted justifications made on here for a direct or a even resale purchase at current prices are just attempts to deny it really is an emotional purchase. This was true before the restrictions and it is true now.

Also, there is nothing wrong with making some emotional purchases. A bunch of money in the bank when you die can’t buy you any moments of happiness. Enjoy your life by making purchases you can afford on your budget that make you happy or can provide multiple moments of happiness.

I would never buy at Riviera direct because of the restrictions, but I probably won’t by direct ever at any resort. On my budget my happiness would be impacted by always knowing that I should have been able to get a better deal on a purchase that will take up a decent amount of my disposable cash. Others might be in different financial situations, it could make them happier to be a full member of the club with all the benefits or any number of reasons that would make them decide differently. That is cool.

 

[TexasChick123]

For me, buying any DVC was probably 95% emotional and 5% justified by my spreadsheets. I get to go to Disney more now because it is a “cheap vacation” compared to many others. Of course, that doesn’t take into account the initial purchase price. I spend less than $6k per year in MF’s and own over 1000 points. We’ve spent more than $6k on a single non-Disney vacation for lodging. For me, it makes sense.

How about this for a change? Everyone should stop judging people by where they own! Who cares?!? If you don’t like a resort, don’t buy it. I don’t like some resorts that are others’ favorites. That’s ok. What I don’t do is spend my time ranting about how “dumb” and “uninformed” those who own at those resorts are because I don’t like it for one reason or another.

I think it’s time everyone took a deep breath and moved on from the “I Hate Riviera” club. It hasn’t even opened yet. Good Lord! There’s so much negativity in our everyday lives now that everyone needs to chill out and not add to it.

 

[skier_pete]

@kboo - it isn't that anyone wants Riviera to fail - or that we think you are dumb for buying (well I don't anyways) but what we are rooting for is the resale restrictions to fail. IF they lifted the newest resale restrictions, that is a win for ALL owners. In fact, it's more of a win for you as an owner than for the rest of us. Forget how much it is hurting your potential resale price. As a direct owner at that resort - you might not see much affect at first, but as more and more contracts are sold on the resale market - you will find yourself being forced to book your rooms closer and closer to the 11-month mark in order to get what you want. Resale owners will be forced by the fact they can't go to SSR or elsewhere to book as early as possible to ensure they have a room. That doesn't hurt the owners at AKV like me. That hurts the owners at Riviera. Disney completely misses this fact when they put this resale restriction in place - and I hope to heaven that they realize it - but the only way they realize it is by hurting sales.

So, I'm sorry to say it, but you should be rooting for Riviera to sell poorly as well. Not on the resale market - but direct. And you should also hope that LOTS of people tell them they won't buy because of the resale restrictions.

 

[mousemagic00]

How about this for a change? Everyone should stop judging people by where they own! Who cares?!? If you don’t like a resort, don’t buy it. I don’t like some resorts that are others’ favorites. That’s ok. What I don’t do is spend my time ranting about how “dumb” and “uninformed” those who own at those resorts are because I don’t like it for one reason or another.

I think it’s time everyone took a deep breath and moved on from the “I Hate Riviera” club. It hasn’t even opened yet. Good Lord! There’s so much negativity in our everyday lives now that everyone needs to chill out and not add to it.

Thank you for this. And thank you to kboo for all the good posts.

Catching up on this thread, is, as usual, mind boggling.

Like somehow I have some sort of assigned responsibility to do what a bunch of strangers want me to do or I’m validating Disney’s evil plans...

Seriously?

Validating what? Was there some sort of secret society pact I missed about not buying RIV if you were going to buy DVC direct?

Where did any of us who decided to buy, end up with magic powers, forcing all resale buyers to pay to dollar? RIV contracts in resale will only sell for a price a buyer is willing to pay. We all get that, those that bought, at least on this board, bought with that risk in mind. For me... my DVC is a sunk cost. Period. The money is gone.

There are people who only participate on the RIV threads to immediately disparage anyone who bought RIV, the resort itself, and literally seem to live to trounce on any person that might not follow some odd dogma about buying as cheaply as possible, and only buying resale, or buying most of your points resale, with maybe a few direct, (!but! only at a couple of approved SAP resorts)

Otherwise, according to these people, you’re doing it wrong, harming all DVC owners, the product, and possibly someone’s future unborn child.

I am excited to have bought. I waited and researched while waiting for over a decade. I am educated and understand what I bought and what risk it carries. I'll buy resale if and when I think it makes sense for *me*, the person spending the money for the product. However, when I was naively honest (always a poor choice on the internet) as to my personal reasons for RIV and how I finally hit *MY* decision that it was time for DVC over cash "win scenario", why *I* bought direct, and why RIV, my journey to that decision was taken out of context by a few posters and used to belittle *my* choice. I'm all for difference in opinion but that was just being an ***hole.

Newsflash, not everyone buys for the same reasons.

And I’m somehow expecting resale buyers to pay abhorrent prices for our RIV contracts??

Nobody is expecting resale buyers to do anything. We can't force you to do anything either. Only Disney can do that. And they are doing it, so people are pissed because Disney **can** do it.

It's also not Disney's problem. Rather, it will be my problem if/when I sell, and I bought knowing that. Apparently this is causing a gnashing of teeth that I did this with eyes wide open, but whatever.

RIV will sell out eventually, just like SSR eventually did (and yes, I was around when that first went up for sale and they spent years begging people to buy it, partially due to the recession, with all sorts of incentives). The Mouse will make their money, one way or another and the MFs will pay to keep the resort up, regardless of who owns those points.

Here is the thing IMHO: Disney also didn't change the product people bought WHEN they bought. All of you still have the L14, your resale savings, your access for your direct points or grandfathered resale. BUT what they did do, is wreck the system of people waiting for resale contracts to come up cheap, robust third party buy/rent/flip model and the ongoing scenarios of contract flippers selling off contracts, then using that money to upgrade by buying direct to a longer # of years for the contract, after using it for vacations, getting their initial investment plus $$ out at times ( so very cheap vacations), plus still buying cheap resale SAPs to use and get rid of at will.

That I get is the bad taste if you had that system worked out.

So yep, I get different points of view, but if a person says they understand what they bought, what the cost is, and what the risk is, then they really just might.

End of the day, DVC will keep the restrictions or lift them. Bonus to me if they do, if they don't, then that is what it is.

As far as the Hunger Games scenario DVC is developing with the restrictions, if down the line it hits 20% resale owners, I agree. But it’s not far off from the studio situation at any resort past 11 months. Or the value rooms at AKV. I can see it being insane to get time during F&W. But this whole mess is what pushed me to the guaranteed week purchase, plus direct points can still be used elsewhere.

We need a RIV owner thread in resorts so we can enjoy the wait.

 

[Soap_1984]

Riviera looks nice but the division in this thread is exactly why what disney has done with the restrictions should not have happened. The same rules apply to everyone except riviera, which does create some kind of a class system.

Anyone who lauds the resale restrictions or says they don't matter is just deluding themselves into thinking they made a good purchase. No one ever buys with the expectation to sell, but in 20 years (this contract lasts forever) you may be sick of riviera or sick of disney; if you spent way less money and bought akl you would be selling for more. That does not make sense and the hope that the resort does bad is just so they will change the restrictions, which would help out the owners!

I am not saying it was a bad purchase if you bought, but there is no way to justify the additional costs buying direct at riviera over another resort such as animal kingdom where you save 70+ a point. The idea of leaving your kids with "the magic of disney" in the form of a riviera contract is also a bit of a stretch. you have no idea what your kids will want and the thing lasts until 2070. If your child is not well off or doesn't want to go to Disney every year, you are just leaving them something that is worth a lot less than you paid for it. One thing kids will use is money or something liquid which riviera is not unless they lift the resale restrictions. Also they may not want the obligation to pay the highest dues on property, and leaving it to multiple kids creates it's own issues; to get those blue cards every kid needs to be on the deed; that isn't the best situation for several reasons.

Everyone can approach buying differently, but some of the rationalization has been fabricated post-purchase to explain why the restrictions don't matter.

If it really doesn't bother you then ignore people who are hoping for it to fail. I don't want people to lose money but if the majority of riviera owners sentiment is they would prefer the restrictions lifted (and any owner who doesn't want this needs their head examined) then why not jump on the bandwagon with us and root for poor sales? That is the only way they may change it. I don't even care about the resale value of riviera as I don't really want to stay there, I just don't want disney to continue down this path of screwing all owners to try and make a few extra dollars. $80 a point means nothing to disneys bottom line and could mean a lot to someone who lost their job and needs to sell three years into their contract.

 

[Spark65]

I am not saying it was a bad purchase if you bought, but there is no way to justify the additional costs buying direct at riviera over another resort such as animal kingdom where you save 70+ a point. The idea of leaving your kids with "the magic of disney" in the form of a riviera contract is also a bit of a stretch. you have no idea what your kids will want and the thing lasts until 2070. If your child is not well off or doesn't want to go to Disney every year, you are just leaving them something that is worth a lot less than you paid for it. One thing kids will use is money or something liquid which riviera is not unless they lift the resale restrictions. Also they may not want the obligation to pay the highest dues on property, and leaving it to multiple kids creates it's own issues; to get those blue cards every kid needs to be on the deed; that isn't the best situation for several reasons.

Everyone can approach buying differently, but some of the rationalization has been fabricated post-purchase to explain why the restrictions don't matter.

There has been no fabrication from anyone buying RIV if you read why they bought. Why they feel the need to defend the purchase is because a few people are upset they can't buy it and make a profit someday after using it for several years. Resale only hurts those selling based on what they are pushing but that's yet to be seen and in 10 years we will see the bigger picture.

As far as leaving to my kids YES! My kids love it and I know my future grandkids will too and my kids have very good paying jobs in secure industries so paying maintenance fees isn't going to hurt them. If they sell they sell that's their choice they will have to make that choice in the future. Also, if I leave something to someone for free and they sell at less than what I paid how does that hurt them? Do they not make a profit because I think they would.

 

[Madame]

Thank you for this. And thank you to kboo for all the good posts.

Catching up on this thread, is, as usual, mind boggling.

Like somehow I have some sort of assigned responsibility to do what a bunch of strangers want me to do or I’m validating Disney’s evil plans...

Seriously?

Validating what? Was there some sort of secret society pact I missed about not buying RIV if you were going to buy DVC direct?

Where did any of us who decided to buy, end up with magic powers, forcing all resale buyers to pay to dollar? RIV contracts in resale will only sell for a price a buyer is willing to pay. We all get that, those that bought, at least on this board, bought with that risk in mind. For me... my DVC is a sunk cost. Period. The money is gone.

There are people who only participate on the RIV threads to immediately disparage anyone who bought RIV, the resort itself, and literally seem to live to trounce on any person that might not follow some odd dogma about buying as cheaply as possible, and only buying resale, or buying most of your points resale, with maybe a few direct, (!but! only at a couple of approved SAP resorts)

Otherwise, according to these people, you’re doing it wrong, harming all DVC owners, the product, and possibly someone’s future unborn child.

I am excited to have bought. I waited and researched while waiting for over a decade. I am educated and understand what I bought and what risk it carries. I'll buy resale if and when I think it makes sense for *me*, the person spending the money for the product. However, when I was naively honest (always a poor choice on the internet) as to my personal reasons for RIV and how I finally hit *MY* decision that it was time for DVC over cash "win scenario", why *I* bought direct, and why RIV, my journey to that decision was taken out of context by a few posters and used to belittle *my* choice. I'm all for difference in opinion but that was just being an ***hole.

Newsflash, not everyone buys for the same reasons.

And I’m somehow expecting resale buyers to pay abhorrent prices for our RIV contracts??

Nobody is expecting resale buyers to do anything. We can't force you to do anything either. Only Disney can do that. And they are doing it, so people are pissed because Disney **can** do it.

It's also not Disney's problem. Rather, it will be my problem if/when I sell, and I bought knowing that. Apparently this is causing a gnashing of teeth that I did this with eyes wide open, but whatever.

RIV will sell out eventually, just like SSR eventually did (and yes, I was around when that first went up for sale and they spent years begging people to buy it, partially due to the recession, with all sorts of incentives). The Mouse will make their money, one way or another and the MFs will pay to keep the resort up, regardless of who owns those points.

Here is the thing IMHO: Disney also didn't change the product people bought WHEN they bought. All of you still have the L14, your resale savings, your access for your direct points or grandfathered resale. BUT what they did do, is wreck the system of people waiting for resale contracts to come up cheap, robust third party buy/rent/flip model and the ongoing scenarios of contract flippers selling off contracts, then using that money to upgrade by buying direct to a longer # of years for the contract, after using it for vacations, getting their initial investment plus $$ out at times ( so very cheap vacations), plus still buying cheap resale SAPs to use and get rid of at will.

That I get is the bad taste if you had that system worked out.

So yep, I get different points of view, but if a person says they understand what they bought, what the cost is, and what the risk is, then they really just might.

End of the day, DVC will keep the restrictions or lift them. Bonus to me if they do, if they don't, then that is what it is.

As far as the Hunger Games scenario DVC is developing with the restrictions, if down the line it hits 20% resale owners, I agree. But it’s not far off from the studio situation at any resort past 11 months. Or the value rooms at AKV. I can see it being insane to get time during F&W. But this whole mess is what pushed me to the guaranteed week purchase, plus direct points can still be used elsewhere.

We need a RIV owner thread in resorts so we can enjoy the wait.

If you’d like to challenge my views and assertions please do me the curtesy of speaking directly to me. I in no way am assigning blame or mystical powers (I do not deal in hyperbole). Do like I do as an SSR owner when I come across threads discussing the following:

- SSR owners are all resalers gaming the system
- SSR owners never stay at their home resort
- SSR owners flood the 7 mo window with cheap points

I either choose to engage rationally, attempting to avoid gross exaggeration or hit the ignore button. You can make the *choice* to use it.

I don’t care what you choose to buy. I care that DVD seems hell bent on destroying a system I paid a lot of money to be a part of, and that DVCMC is a puppet allowing it. By criticizing the new restrictions I am NOT criticizing you personally. It’s a timeshare, not your first born.

 

[Soap_1984]

There has been no fabrication from anyone buying RIV if you read why they bought. Why they feel the need to defend the purchase is because a few people are upset they can't buy it and make a profit someday after using it for several years. Resale only hurts those selling based on what they are pushing but that's yet to be seen and in 10 years we will see the bigger picture.

As far as leaving to my kids YES! My kids love it and I know my future grandkids will too and my kids have very good paying jobs in secure industries so paying maintenance fees isn't going to hurt them. If they sell they sell that's their choice they will have to make that choice in the future. Also, if I leave something to someone for free and they sell at less than what I paid how does that hurt them? Do they not make a profit because I think they would.

It isn't about making a profit it is about losing less money than you otherwise would had you bought any other contract. I don't care what anyone does with their money, believe me I have wasted my fair share. But you can't guarantee your kids will always have good paying jobs or will never get divorced etc. They may be getting something for free, but the thing that is free is going to cost thousands of dollars a year to maintain so it isn't really free. It would be like of GM made a car and you bought it and they said "if you sell this car it can only be driven on this one road". If your kids don't need a car or already have their own, if you had bought a different car you'd be leaving them something they could sell for more. I won't get into if you saved the $80/pt buy buying the same points at a cheaper resort and invested it how much more they would have in 20+ years. The point is it isn't for your future kids benefit it is to enjoy now with your kids and when you are older.

All this bickering shouldn't even be taking place and that is what is annoying, disney did this and it does affect everyone and future purchasers.

What you are saying is the equivalent of me asking whether you would want your contract to be worth what you paid for it in ten years and you resoond "no I want it to be worth less, I am never going to sell it in my lifetime and my life will never change". It does come off as disingenuous a bit.

 

[Spark65]

It isn't about making a profit it is about losing less money than you otherwise would had you bought any other contract. I don't care what anyone does with their money, believe me I have wasted my fair share. But you can't guarantee your kids will always have good paying jobs or will never get divorced etc. They may be getting something for free, but the thing that is free is going to cost thousands of dollars a year to maintain so it isn't really free. It would be like of GM made a car and you bought it and they said "if you sell this car it can only be driven on this one road". If your kids don't need a car or already have their own, if you had bought a different car you'd be leaving them something they could sell for more. I won't get into if you saved the $80/pt buy buying the same points at a cheaper resort and invested it how much more they would have in 20+ years. The point is it isn't for your future kids benefit it is to enjoy now with your kids and when you are older.

All this bickering shouldn't even be taking place and that is what is annoying, disney did this and it does affect everyone and future purchasers.

What you are saying is the equivalent of me asking whether you would want your contract to be worth what you paid for it in ten years and you resoond "no I want it to be worth less, I am never going to sell it in my lifetime and my life will never change". It does come off as disingenuous a bit.

See it truly is the money for you and you have just reinforced that with the above statement. Those who are bickering aren't the buyers it's those who only care about reselling in the future. The complaints are not about the room sizes or how many studios just they wouldn't be able to sell in the future for a profit and nothing says you won't be able to resell so it's only about the profit/money. Nothing really to bicker about if you don't like the resort rules don't buy it why keep banging on about the same thing.

As far as the future is concerned I will continue to use my DVC till I can't and I may not even be here in 20 years. I have never lived my life expecting everyone to give me things I worked hard and earned my place, my things and my friends. I wasn't put on this earth to leave things to others and I don't expect people to leave things to me but should I leave you something it will be more as a remembrance.

disingenuous my .......

 

[Madame]

See it truly is the money for you and you have just reinforced that with the above statement. Those who are bickering aren't the buyers it's those who only care about reselling in the future. The complaints are not about the room sizes or how many studios just they wouldn't be able to sell in the future for a profit and nothing says you won't be able to resell so it's only about the profit/money. Nothing really to bicker about if you don't like the resort rules don't buy it why keep banging on about the same thing.

As far as the future is concerned I will continue to use my DVC till I can't and I may not even be here in 20 years. I have never lived my life expecting everyone to give me things I worked hard and earned my place, my things and my friends. I wasn't put on this earth to leave things to others and I don't expect people to leave things to me but should I leave you something it will be more as a remembrance.

disingenuous my .......

Some of the complaints ARE about the resort though. Perhaps you’ve not seen them:

Point chart too high (this is directly related to the lock off premium-they tried to jack up the BCV & BWV studio & 1 bd point requirements in order to make the comparison to RIV point chart more favourable & therefore easier to sell. This one ticked me off, I admit, & continues to influence how I view RIV, warranted or not)

MF - Jury still out here, but I no longer trust DCV to not have RIV buyers paying more than their share in order to subsidize CBR, AoA, Pop skyliner usage. This is not pie-in-the-sky. They like to attach DVC resorts to existing resorts so members absorb operating costs for shared amenities of the cash side.... Ingenious.

RIV Skyliner station - Again, still speculation, but why is it the ONLY one to not have an ECV/wheelchair loop? Well, they cannot charge members for the construction like they can the maintenance.... And then they built a walking path for CBR guests to use the RIV station.....

& honestly, I wanted to buy there, maybe even direct (gasp). I love the room set ups as a family of 5. I love, love, love CBR. It is a family fav. But all of the points above and more I’m probably forgetting, mean no WAY my other half signs off.

 

[Brianstl]

Riviera looks nice but the division in this thread is exactly why what disney has done with the restrictions should not have happened. The same rules apply to everyone except riviera, which does create some kind of a class system.

Anyone who lauds the resale restrictions or says they don't matter is just deluding themselves into thinking they made a good purchase. No one ever buys with the expectation to sell, but in 20 years (this contract lasts forever) you may be sick of riviera or sick of disney; if you spent way less money and bought akl you would be selling for more. That does not make sense and the hope that the resort does bad is just so they will change the restrictions, which would help out the owners!

I am not saying it was a bad purchase if you bought, but there is no way to justify the additional costs buying direct at riviera over another resort such as animal kingdom where you save 70+ a point. The idea of leaving your kids with "the magic of disney" in the form of a riviera contract is also a bit of a stretch. you have no idea what your kids will want and the thing lasts until 2070. If your child is not well off or doesn't want to go to Disney every year, you are just leaving them something that is worth a lot less than you paid for it. One thing kids will use is money or something liquid which riviera is not unless they lift the resale restrictions. Also they may not want the obligation to pay the highest dues on property, and leaving it to multiple kids creates it's own issues; to get those blue cards every kid needs to be on the deed; that isn't the best situation for several reasons.

Everyone can approach buying differently, but some of the rationalization has been fabricated post-purchase to explain why the restrictions don't matter.

If it really doesn't bother you then ignore people who are hoping for it to fail. I don't want people to lose money but if the majority of riviera owners sentiment is they would prefer the restrictions lifted (and any owner who doesn't want this needs their head examined) then why not jump on the bandwagon with us and root for poor sales? That is the only way they may change it. I don't even care about the resale value of riviera as I don't really want to stay there, I just don't want disney to continue down this path of screwing all owners to try and make a few extra dollars. $80 a point means nothing to disneys bottom line and could mean a lot to someone who lost their job and needs to sell three years into their contract.

Nobody has any clue what the value of a AKL resale will be in 20 years compared to RIV. How attractive will AKL be when Boulder Ridge, Beach Club, Boarwalk, Vero and Hilton Head won't be 7 month booking options?

Like I said earlier, I wouldn't buy at Riv. It is just that nobody should be buying anywhere for what they think they can get resale in ten to twenty years. There is a market bubble on resale right now because in the end DVC is just another time share. When compared to other timeshares it's resale price made no sense recently even before the restrictions. Should DVC resale sell higher than other timeshares? Sure and probably much higher because it has things working for it that the others don't, but the selling at the multiple it does compared to others make no sense.