Riviera restrictions - how is this ok?

[Alicia22]

Please help me understand why the resale restrictions on Riviera and all future dvc resorts are allowed. I am not a lawyer, so I am just asking for it to be explained. If direct buyers can use their points at all resorts but (since 2019) indirect buyers can only use their points at the 14 og’s, that is an imbalance of points available for classes of dvc purchasers - say 70 million available for some and 75 million available to others across all resorts. How is this discrepancy allowed under timeshare rules? Something doesn’t seem right about this. Thanks!

 

[The Jackal]

Well people who buy RIV on the resale market can only use the points at RIV. Resale anything else can at least have a shot at a bunch of other resorts. If buying RIV resale you better be ready for 48 years of RIV vacations.

 

[Sandisw]

RIV entered into the BVTC (the exchange company that handles the trades) with specific terms that allows only those points purchases prior to 2019 and those points purchased directly from DVD as eligible to be converted from home resort points to DVC vacation points to use at its resorts. In exchange for that, all RIV points bought on the resale market lose their ability to stay at the other resorts.

So, each set of resale points is restricted in some way, with only those direct points being purchased being equal in terms of trades. Currently, there are still 14 points that can't go into RIV resale, and only RIV resale that cant trade into the other ones...but at some point, that balance will shift when its no longer 14 resorts...in 2042...when it reduces to 9.

DVCMC is the one that takes care of home resort rules but BVTC can make their own rules for trading into the other resorts. For example, they could decide to make a different chart at VGF for non resort owners than they have for owners so that the exchange is not 1:1. They can charge a fee to trade into other resorts...it does not need to remain free. So, they have a lot of leeway in the rules. It doesn't even need to be the same for each DVC resort.

There is a clause in the BVTC document that states new resorts would be substantially similar...so some feel that RIV should not have been allowed to enter differently...however, with the grandfathering of everyone prior to that date, those who bought prior have the same trading rights as they did before. And, it is substantially similar for those with directly owned points. BVTC though has the right to amend the agreement as well, so that also gives them some leeway in the terms.

Now, there are some who don't agree that RIV should have been allowed....personally, I am not one of them...but, it has also never been challenged legally, so who knows how it would fair.

Trading, though, because resorts are not the same size, will never be equal. Prior to the new rooms, VGF has 2 million points and Poly had over 4 million, yet the trades were equal.

 

[Sandisw]

Well people who buy RIV on the resale market can only use the points at RIV. Resale anything else can at least have a shot at a bunch of other resorts. If buying RIV resale you better be ready for 48 years of RIV vacations.

Only if those are the only points you own! If you buy elsewhere, you get the best of all worlds!!!

 

[MickeyMice]

So, each set of resale points is restricted in some way, with only those direct points being purchased being equal in terms of trades. Currently, there are still 14 points that can't go into RIV resale, and only RIV resale that cant trade into the other ones...but at some point, that balance will shift when its no longer 14 resorts...in 2042...when it reduces to 9.

i don't really understand this - won't riviera resale points be restricted to only riviera? or you're saying they might be good at DLT, new poly tower if it's a new association, etc? because if not, i get that O14 resale owners will lose options in 2042, but i'd still rather have 9 resorts than 1.

 

[Sandisw]

i don't really understand this - won't riviera resale points be restricted to only riviera? or you're saying they might be good at DLT, new poly tower if it's a new association, etc? because if not, i get that O14 resale owners will lose options in 2042, but i'd still rather have 9 resorts than 1.

RIV resale is only good at RIV. Same with DLT and Poly tower if it is new and the keep restrictions. If they stick with this plan, then in 2042, when those resorts go offline, and new ones replace them, those too would not have trading rights. Eventually, most resale points for DVC would simply be good as home resort points. There would be no trading to others...unless you buy direct.

Because RIV (and assume) future resorts will enter BVTC with these new rules, resale could end up not being very attractive at all. I own resale RIV and bought them because I do love the resort and don't care if they can't be used elsewhere. I have plenty of other points that can. But, that is also why I will only buy direct from now own because I don't want to be shut out of any resorts in the future. Many do not care.

Many resale buyers right now don't mind being shut out because for them, the savings is worth it. Of course, there is always the chance that DVD decides to eliminate the restrictions, allow people to pay a fee to upgrade points to trade, etc. They gave themselves a lot of options. And, as I have mentioned, only points good only at RIV doesn't preclude you from buying other resort points that are good elsewhere. It doesn't have to be one or the other...it can be both.

No one really knows what could happen in the future.

 

[CarolynFH]

Please help me understand why the resale restrictions on Riviera and all future dvc resorts are allowed. I am not a lawyer, so I am just asking for it to be explained. If direct buyers can use their points at all resorts but (since 2019) indirect buyers can only use their points at the 14 og’s, that is an imbalance of points available for classes of dvc purchasers - say 70 million available for some and 75 million available to others across all resorts. How is this discrepancy allowed under timeshare rules? Something doesn’t seem right about this. Thanks!

Keep in mind that this only affects owners who want to reserve at a resort they don’t own. It does not affect an owners’ ability to use their ownership at the resort they do own. BVTC is like RCI or Interval International; it’s a company that facilitates exchanges between owners at different resorts. An exchange company can set any rules it wants regarding those exchanges.

 

[Alicia22]

Ok…so assuming new resorts continue to be restricted and disney builds (or converts) 9 more restricted resorts by 2042…then I am competing with twice as many (est) people for an og resort while I have no right to new resorts. I don’t care about my 9-resort limit. What bothers me is the inequity of points available in my 9 resorts vs points owned and spendable at my 9 resorts.

 

[zavandor]

This argument has been raised often. The best thread to read if you want more info is this one:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/w...t-to-revert-dvcs-resale-restrictions.3747861/

Conclusion on that thread is that there is a good chance that a legal challenge against the resale restrictions might succeed, but you have to find enough people motivated to start one. At the time, since everyone was grandfathered in, chances of gathering enough support were very slim. Things may change in the future as more people buy resale and new resorts are built with the restrictions. DVC might be sitting on a ticking bomb, but until someone is willing to poke the bomb, those are just opinions.

 

[drusba]

For my personal view on the issues, see my post (#125) in the thread provided by Zavandor : https://www.disboards.com/threads/w...ale-restrictions.3747861/page-7#post-63122711. You may want to review that entire thread which provides discussion of the issues involved with DVD's addition of Riviera as a DVC Resort with the resale restrictions adopted.

 

[Sandisw]

Ok…so assuming new resorts continue to be restricted and disney builds (or converts) 9 more restricted resorts by 2042…then I am competing with twice as many (est) people for an og resort while I have no right to new resorts. I don’t care about my 9-resort limit. What bothers me is the inequity of points available in my 9 resorts vs points owned and spendable at my 9 resorts.

And, if you are buying now, you understand that as an aspect of the program for trading out...no different than the rules that RCI/II had. Your rights to trade out are not governed by the same rules as booking home resort.

As the thread that others have shared above states, some do not think it should have been allowed...it is a good read for people to draw their own conclusions.

 

[wnielsen1]

Ok…so assuming new resorts continue to be restricted and disney builds (or converts) 9 more restricted resorts by 2042…then I am competing with twice as many (est) people for an og resort while I have no right to new resorts. I don’t care about my 9-resort limit. What bothers me is the inequity of points available in my 9 resorts vs points owned and spendable at my 9 resorts.

The answer is to buy direct, which is exactly what Disney intended when they started these restrictions.

 

[tjkraz]

What bothers me is the inequity of points available in my 9 resorts vs points owned and spendable at my 9 resorts.

My response to this is that you don't have 9 resorts, you have 1 resort. The 11 month Home resort priority is the only booking guarantee offered, regardless of where you own or how purchased.

At 7 months demand has never been equitably distributed and I agree it becomes even less equitable when the restrictions come into play. The number of owners (points) competing for each Home resort in that 11-7 month window is unchanged. Only buy if you would be satisfied with that outcome. Booking a non-home location inside of 7 months has always been a crapshoot. And yes, the restrictions could stand to make it even more challenging.

 

[Alicia22]

Thank you everyone for helping me better understand the rules that apply. Now I can use this argument to buy more points!

 

[Robbie Cottam]

This rule is a tool Disney is using to tighten up on the resale market. The mouse doesn't like others making money on his hard work.

This would be the third or fourth "restriction" placed on resale since 2011...

If you buy are you want to stay this is not a problem.

If you want to jump around, and it is kinda fun to do, then you either need to buy direct or but at one of the original 14.

Legally how can Disney do this. Simple, you will agree to it when you buy your points. The resale points you buy in RR will were originally sold by Disney (DVD). In that original contract there a clause that sends you to the condo rules. In there it states if you resell the buy can only use the point at RR. I haven't looked it up. But I promise it is there somewhere.

The original buyer agreed to that "restriction" being placed on their title. When (s)he sells to you it comes with that restriction.

hope this helps

 

[Alicia22]

And, if you are buying now, you understand that as an aspect of the program for trading out...no different than the rules that RCI/II had. Your rights to trade out are not governed by the same rules as booking home resort.

As the thread that others have shared above states, some do not think it should have been allowed...it is a good read for people to draw their own conclusions.

Thanks. I am a new owner, and the concept of trading out never occurred nor was explained to me, especially in the context of the wdw dvc resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

Thanks. I am a new owner, and the concept of trading out never occurred nor was explained to me, especially in the context of the wdw dvc resorts.

As long as your resort remains part of BVTC…and there are only specific ways for it to be removed..you will have trading rights to whichever ones you have..absent of this discussion…unless there are any future changes they make that removed current restrictions

 

[Turn the Page]

As a side note, DH and I were planning to buy DVC for a few years before we purchased RIV last year so we were watching the news and discussions on the resale restrictions quite closely to make sure we knew what we were getting ourselves into.

We did purchase direct because at the time there were good direct incentives and there wasn't a lot of inventory on the resale market yet. There was a lot of speculation when the restrictions were announced that that would severely hamper the value on the resale market. I know no one really knew what to expect as it was all new but I just checked a couple of broker websites and list prices seem to be ranging from about $145 on the low end to $165 on the higher end. I am really surprised they are that high. It seems to be holding value much better than anyone predicted.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

At the end of the Day it is still Disney, and If you want to be a the RR and not resort hop, the restriction doesn't really matter.

It really only effects people who want to buy at one resort and try them all...

It is still a great value to be on property with pretty direct access to Hollywood and Epcot

I have my first trip schedule for Nov and I can not wait.

 

[ScarSimone]

Well people who buy RIV on the resale market can only use the points at RIV. Resale anything else can at least have a shot at a bunch of other resorts. If buying RIV resale you better be ready for 48 years of RIV vacations.

And good luck if your points go into holding with those restrictions! Holding points only good at one resort, and a popular one at that.