Rivera Price that would make you say hmmm

[Ruttangel]

If a 1 bedroom contract at RVA works out at about $800 per week more than AKL for example then I've got to be seriously in love with the property and location to buy it.
Some people are and that's fine. For me, it would need to be, say $500 cheaper, which would mean a contract value of MINUS $120per point
https://www.disboards.com/threads/e...s-total-cost-per-week-year-remaining.3803924/

 

[Eric Smith]

We all hate the resale restrictions on Rivera, but is there a resale price point that would make you buy? Let's put a floor price at the cheapest prices currently available via resale at any DVC resort.

I assume you're talking about buying resale. I haven't seen the resort in person yet (thanks COVID), so here are my reasons.

1) The points chart is high. The points costs for rooms (excluding the tower studios) is higher per night than what I would consider to be the most comparable resorts in Beach Club and Boardwalk.
2) The inability to use the points at any other resort.
3) The dues are the highest on WDW property and they're nearly the highest of any DVC resort. They're almost a dollar higher per point than AKL which has a zoo included in the resort.

I wouldn't really consider it at any price unless the resort totally knocked my socks off.

 

[linzjane88]

When we went for dinner at Toppolino's I loved the skyliner ride over and the pretty mosaics but beyond that it felt really 'meh'. Maybe I would think otherwise if I was actually in the room but I didn't get the 'wow' factor from the resort itself. I feel towards Riviera the same way I do about BLT. The close proximity to parks is nice but it feels like a big Marriott or something. The huge lobbies of AKL, AKV, Aul, GCH, GFV, POLY, WL are just so stunning and you feel like your really somewhere cool. Combined with the crazy point chart and it just doesn't make much sense to me.

I might be tempted in the 50's-60's though.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

Especially in 25 years. When the 2042s disappear and the resale population continues to grow. There will be more people who have restrictions (demand) and less resorts for them to book (supply). The resale buyers at PVB and CCV (raises hand) will be in for a huge fight as time goes along and more disappear. We think bungalow and cabin points are a problem now...what will they be when it’s our only resort option?

People might be looking back at Riviera differently then. And we might be having some people going - I bought my Riviera at $150/pt. Don’t love it, but I use it as sleeparound points. Who knows..

I look at it this way. Its pretty cheap direct if you want to use as sleep around points. And it is good until 2070 when I'm 80 lol. We don't plan to ever sell ours. Can always hand down to kids also. Plus who knows maybe the MFs will drop to 8.0 or 7.7, maybe they overstated transportation fees on the skyliner.

 

[CastAStone]

I look at it this way. Its pretty cheap direct if you want to use as sleep around points. And it is good until 2070 when I'm 80 lol. We don't plan to ever sell ours. Can always hand down to kids also. Plus who knows maybe the MFs will drop to 8.0 or 7.7, maybe they overstated transportation fees on the skyliner.

If you are happy with your purchase, who is to say you are wrong. I could have bought a end of model year gold Nissan Altima for my first car - it would have saved me thousands vs the otherwise identically equipped Ford I actually bought. I have never regretted that decision even though objective observers could note that from their perspective I “wasted” thousands of dollars on a vanity decision.

 

[Yinn]

That’s a very good way to look at it. But the drop in Mf might be a pipe dream..

 

[Yinn]

I look at it this way. Its pretty cheap direct if you want to use as sleep around points. And it is good until 2070 when I'm 80 lol. We don't plan to ever sell ours. Can always hand down to kids also. Plus who knows maybe the MFs will drop to 8.0 or 7.7, maybe they overstated transportation fees on the skyliner.

That’s a very good way to look at it. But the drop in Mf might be a pipe dream..

 

[bk2019]

Has there been a drop in MF at any resort in the past?

 

[ChipNdale8887]

Has there been a drop in MF at any resort in the past?

It's rare. I think Copper Creek had this happen because property taxes were estimated higher than anticipated. My thought was maybe they estimated the Skyliner Operating costs higher and a cushion built in if they had to use buses also in addition. I've also heard that Riviera's admin and staff have some minimum wage increases already built in that other resorts do not have yet. So I'm hoping that MF's at Riviera don't increase for a few years and at that point they will be on par with other DVC resorts like SSR, AKV, and CCV.

 

[CastAStone]

Has there been a drop in MF at any resort in the past?

Twice at OKW, Twice at BWV, once at VB, once at HHI, and once at VGF. In all cases except OKW it was shortly after opening.

Poly has had MF increases under the rate of inflation every year, other then the year everyone got huge increases due to minimum wage increases. So if dues are too high it can be dealt with that way too.

 

[Dismom18]

After hearing everyone’s view I’m really confused my intention was to buy a direct contract in order to get the blue card. I was considering purchasing 100pts SSR due to the low cost and maintenance fees, but I don’t love the resort, and would probably try to book other resorts at the 7 month mark. The new RIV incentives had me rethinking my decision, as the price per point is attractive and i prefer it over SSR. However, the price points and MF are definitely high and after reading this thread, I’m nervous that not only would it be a bad financial decision, but I may not be even be able to give my contract away should I need to. I’m unfamiliar with how frequently Disney raises their MF but would RIV fees increase to a level that it would no longer be worth keeping the contract?

 

[Eric Smith]

After hearing everyone’s view I’m really confused my intention was to buy a direct contract in order to get the blue card. I was considering purchasing 100pts SSR due to the low cost and maintenance fees, but I don’t love the resort, and would probably try to book other resorts at the 7 month mark. The new RIV incentives had me rethinking my decision, as the price per point is attractive and i prefer it over SSR. However, the price points and MF are definitely high and after reading this thread, I’m nervous that not only would it be a bad financial decision, but I may not be even be able to give my contract away should I need to. I’m unfamiliar with how frequently Disney raises their MF but would RIV fees increase to a level that it would no longer be worth keeping the contract?

Without considering points or cost, what are the three DVC resorts that appeal the most to you? This should be your starting point.

The MF can only increase to cover costs. It’s unlikely that the MF will suddenly jump all of the sudden one year and I believe there’s a limit on how much they can increase year over year.

 

[Royal Consort]

After hearing everyone’s view I’m really confused my intention was to buy a direct contract in order to get the blue card. I was considering purchasing 100pts SSR due to the low cost and maintenance fees, but I don’t love the resort, and would probably try to book other resorts at the 7 month mark. The new RIV incentives had me rethinking my decision, as the price per point is attractive and i prefer it over SSR. However, the price points and MF are definitely high and after reading this thread, I’m nervous that not only would it be a bad financial decision, but I may not be even be able to give my contract away should I need to. I’m unfamiliar with how frequently Disney raises their MF but would RIV fees increase to a level that it would no longer be worth keeping the contract?

A timeshare isn't, and never should be, an investment acquisition. Buy where you want to stay because there are increasing chances you may be limited only to your home resort in the future dependent on your type of accommodation. Too many have claimed doom and gloom about Riviera but this is partly groupthink related to these types of internet forums. Lets take Aulani: its nowhere near WDW and yet it has resale value. I highly ever doubt any DVC contract would need to be given away. If you like Riviera, its got a great price right now, if you don't like it: buy another resort.

As for MF: they are high right now but that's not a guarantee they always will be the most expensive. This is unknown at this stage. Some resorts have reduced MF in their early years or risen at a slower rate.

 

[Eric Smith]

A timeshare isn't, and never should be, an investment acquisition. Buy where you want to stay because there are increasing chances you may be limited only to your home resort in the future dependent on your type of accommodation. Too many have claimed doom and gloom about Riviera but this is partly groupthink related to these types of internet forums. Lets take Aulani: its nowhere near WDW and yet it has resale value. I highly ever doubt any DVC contract would need to be given away. If you like Riviera, its got a great price right now, if you don't like it: buy another resort.

As for MF: they are high right now but that's not a guarantee they always will be the most expensive. This is unknown at this stage. Some resorts have reduced MF in their early years or risen at a slower rate.

Aulani has one of the lowest resale values of any DVC resort and doesn’t have to deal with the resale restrictions that Riviera does.

 

[CastAStone]

After hearing everyone’s view I’m really confused my intention was to buy a direct contract in order to get the blue card. I was considering purchasing 100pts SSR due to the low cost and maintenance fees, but I don’t love the resort, and would probably try to book other resorts at the 7 month mark. The new RIV incentives had me rethinking my decision, as the price per point is attractive and i prefer it over SSR. However, the price points and MF are definitely high and after reading this thread, I’m nervous that not only would it be a bad financial decision, but I may not be even be able to give my contract away should I need to. I’m unfamiliar with how frequently Disney raises their MF but would RIV fees increase to a level that it would no longer be worth keeping the contract?

It’s too much money to spend to buy a resort you don’t really want to stay at. Animal Kingdom Villas and Old Key West are both less than Riviera as well, do you have any interest in those?

 

[Dismom18]

A timeshare isn't, and never should be, an investment acquisition. Buy where you want to stay because there are increasing chances you may be limited only to your home resort in the future dependent on your type of accommodation. Too many have claimed doom and gloom about Riviera but this is partly groupthink related to these types of internet forums. Lets take Aulani: its nowhere near WDW and yet it has resale value. I highly ever doubt any DVC contract would need to be given away. If you like Riviera, its got a great price right now, if you don't like it: buy another resort.

As for MF: they are high right now but that's not a guarantee they always will be the most expensive. This is unknown at this stage. Some resorts have reduced MF in their early years or risen at a slower rate.

Thank you for the advice

 

[Dismom18]

It’s too much money to spend to buy a resort you don’t really want to stay at. Animal Kingdom Villas and Old Key West are both less than Riviera as well, do you have any interest in those?

Ideally I’d like to buy a monorail resort but the price per point direct is so much higher than resale. I was thinking of buying 200 RIV to get the direct benefits and eventually add on a monorail resale.

 

[sethschroeder]

Even if we were to sell in, say, 10 years, at that point 40 year RIV contracts with restrictions are competing with a huge crop of contracts with 10 or 11 years left on them. At that point 2042 resorts will be all but worthless and I doubt the restrictions will be looking that bad in comparison.

I think you're right that the 2042 resorts will come waaayyyy down in the next decade.

You need to do the math and I have a few times. In 10 years you will still have 11 years left at the resort.

Lets take 1 week in a BW View at Boardwalk in the fall (102/107/114 for the week). I will focus on the 114 point requirement as its the worst "value".

Now lets look at rack rate in October at Boardwalk in a standard room: $583-$640 (in 2020)
Lets give that rack rate a crazy 40% discount (this is if you get luck for a discount): $350-$384/night
Lets give an extra 30% discount for the inconvenience of DVC vs Hotel: $245-$268/night

If we average out that week of 114 points that is 16.2 points per night to stay
Lets take that night cost divided by the points and we are at $15.12-$16.54 per point
We will need to take out the MFs (remember we are working in todays numbers): $7.76-$9.18/point
Over the course of 10 years that puts you at $77-$91/point

This is not even accounting for the fact that Disney hotels are going to outpace MFs. Why do I say that? Companies do not look to make the same in 2020 as 2030 or 2040 in profit. As their costs go up they pass that along (MFs) but then also take on additional profit as well. Yes we are in a downturn right now but that was also the case 10 years ago and that look how that turned out.

So will prices likely come down? Yes but most value of DVC is viewed by the buyer in the immediate future likely looking out no more than 10 years. In addition you will have to recognize the new Disneyland resort likely will start at $200/point in the next 4-5 years time.

 

[sethschroeder]

I look at it this way. Its pretty cheap direct if you want to use as sleep around points. And it is good until 2070 when I'm 80 lol. We don't plan to ever sell ours. Can always hand down to kids also. Plus who knows maybe the MFs will drop to 8.0 or 7.7, maybe they overstated transportation fees on the skyliner.

Riviera is at $1.13 while BCV/BWV are around $0.35-$0.55 for transportation and its very doubtful RIV would get that low since it has stand alone busing, needs standby/temp buses for Epcot/HS.

You also have to account for RIV being a stand alone resort so they are taking on additional costs. You likely have come across the math on other posts that I have done.

Disney is really just too smart to be that far off. Its also doubtful Disney over estimates Dues except year 1 (they are in year 2 now) and the reason for that is you will drive off potential buyers based on them doing the math. At the same time you don't want dues incorrectly low as you open yourself up to lawsuits and a bad reputation.

 

[sethschroeder]

I am not sure what the actual number is. My big issue is resale, MFs, and points charts. If it was the same point charts as BWV then I likely could look past the other two and possibly buy there.

If it was $100/point for blue card I would likely buy in. Even with higher MFs it wouldn't matter since its so much cheaper than blue cards anywhere else for the most part.