RFID turnstiles at EPCOT

[DisFanJen]

Covering the picture should do nothing to change the AP.

I don't think that the OP in that sub thread thought it would cause issues (though saying that another poster has raised a concern about it jamming in FP machines and I think it's valid), they just didn't want the sticker on there.

That's just my interpretation though, I could be wrong.

 

[larryz]

Wow... the geek in me really wants to schedule a trip now...

Thanks for posting

 

[larryz]

YOu don't want the RFID machine activating two tickets you have in your possession. Say you have a KTTW (room key) with your meal plan and also a 2 day pass on it you don't want to use up and also an annual pass which you intend to use. You don't want the 2 day pass to get spoiled as you walk through the turnstile.

http://www.amazon.com/Travelon-Rfid-Blocking-Card-Sleeve/dp/B005CEI0PQ
(not intended as an endorsement, but merely as an illustration)
They were giving out RFID-protective sleeves at BlackHat Las Vegas this year...

 

[atp]

Very cool. We already use something very similar on buses here, except there's a turnstile. It seems to work pretty well. I never had it not work for me and it almost always works on the first try.

I'm guessing they don't have a turnstile right now because it's only being tested? I think it would be very difficult to make sure no one without a ticket got in without a turnstile.

As for the bracelet thing, I'm sure you will have the option of using a card if you prefer. I'm sure Disney will like that too, since it's probably cheaper.

 

[mrtoffee]

Looks really cool, should be a lot easier and quicker for young kids and thosse with wheel chairs or strollers

 

[ptted]

I don't think that the OP in that sub thread thought it would cause issues (though saying that another poster has raised a concern about it jamming in FP machines and I think it's valid), they just didn't want the sticker on there.

That's just my interpretation though, I could be wrong.

That's the same read I got from the OP. Seemed like they just didn't want to mess up the appearance of their ticket.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I wonder how long it will take for Disney to realize this is a huge liability for them - any guesses?

This is what disclaimers and fine print are for. No way they'd get into testing if they were worried about this. And they have people employed ONLY to worry about things like this.

 

[nytimez]

Would still have to get the card out each time you want to use it, unless you want to leave it in your pocket where it can fall out, get damaged, etc. Putting something next to a reader is about a second faster than putting it through a reader.

I would prefer not having sensitive info on a card any savvy scammer could read and rip off.

I wonder how long it will take for Disney to realize this is a huge liability for them - any guesses?

The savvy scammer in this case wouldn't be able to get too far. He won't have access to the specific info on the Disney card -- just the card itself. In other words, after going through the trouble of replicating it, he'd only be able to use it at Disney -- he won't have access to the credit card info linked to your card, because that's not actually on the card itself.

The savvy scammer would ultimately be able to create a card that's only usable at Disney, only for the time you're there -- which is unknown to the thief -- and only for a limited amount of money, since there are limits to KTTW charging privileges (which is also unknown to the thief).

Put it all together, and I don't see why a scammer would waste his time and effort for a payoff that could be quite small. Also, with all the cameras at WDW (especially in the stores), once someone alerts security to the scam, he's bound to be caught or at least identified.

And finally, in most cases the customer isn't liable for fraudulent charges. I haven't seen the specifics of this case, but I can't imagine it would be otherwise. You should always keep an eye on your bill anyway...

 

[cruisingkat]

I did this today and thought it did speed up the process. It was much quicker than waiting for the existing machines to read the tickets. Now if only people remembered to use the same finger every time or not push their finger down so hard it won't read it would really be speedy.

I have a problem with my pass and finger scan about half the time I use it - and I do use the same finger all the time and don't push down hard. I know it is the finger scan that is causing the problem because I have the same problem with the finger scan login on my laptop. I can't get in half the time using my finger print and end up having to use a password.

 

[disnut8]

It is currently in a testing phase and only at Epcot. When/If it is implemented, they will be likely to have both the RFID system and the current system in place until the transition is complete.

Thank you. Our first park, and only for a few hours, will be Epcot so we'll see how it goes. It will be late afternoon so we will have time to deal with things.

 

[notnothin]

I have a problem with my pass and finger scan about half the time I use it - and I do use the same finger all the time and don't push down hard. I know it is the finger scan that is causing the problem because I have the same problem with the finger scan login on my laptop. I can't get in half the time using my finger print and end up having to use a password.

Ask the CM to reset your biometrics on your ticket, that should resolve the problem.

 

[doconeill]

The RFID system should reduce a number, but not all, of the problems that crop up at the entrances. magstripe scanners require a fair amount of maintenance - the heads need to be cleaned regularly, etc. I've had my fair share of issues getting the pass to read, but only in some readers.

RFID shouldn't have any sort of degradation issues. There should be less reasons to physically replace a ticket.

So, even if in the "best case" it doesn't speed up an individual guest, it will speed up some of the worst cases.

Would still have to get the card out each time you want to use it, unless you want to leave it in your pocket where it can fall out, get damaged, etc. Putting something next to a reader is about a second faster than putting it through a reader.

I would prefer not having sensitive info on a card any savvy scammer could read and rip off.

I wonder how long it will take for Disney to realize this is a huge liability for them - any guesses?

If they did it right, there is no liability.

The savvy scammer in this case wouldn't be able to get too far. He won't have access to the specific info on the Disney card -- just the card itself. In other words, after going through the trouble of replicating it, he'd only be able to use it at Disney -- he won't have access to the credit card info linked to your card, because that's not actually on the card itself.

Correct. The magstripes don't contain any more information than is on the barcode - essentially just the ticket ID. The RFIDs should contain no more than that either. It gets linked to the central computer, and THAT is where the personal info is stored.

The savvy scammer would ultimately be able to create a card that's only usable at Disney, only for the time you're there -- which is unknown to the thief -- and only for a limited amount of money, since there are limits to KTTW charging privileges (which is also unknown to the thief).

Even then, there are other protections they can put on a card if they are going to allow RFID purchases. Even if the scammer could get the correct card stock and make it LOOK like a KTTW card, and have the correct name (which an RFID grabber wouldn't have access to), a printed verification code like on credit cards that must be entered by the cashier would take care of that.

About the only thing a scammer might be able to do is get into a park. And that won't work if the biometrics are working.

 

[cruisingkat]

Ask the CM to reset your biometrics on your ticket, that should resolve the problem.

They did reset it once - still have a problem where the scan doesn't work half the time.

 

[NotUrsula]

The utility of the system for other purposes depends on the range of the tag. I didn't see the specs, but a really small tag tends to have a range of no more than 6 inches; a tag that is as large as a CC might go up to about 12. REALLY long-range scanning presently requires a pretty large tag with a power source in it; the sort that is used for tollbooths.

Using them for entry works nicely, but the real value in load management lies in getting location scans throughout the parks and the complex. Such as system would, for instance, tell them exactly how many people head right for TSM at rope drop, and on which day of their visit they did so. In concert with the other demographic info that WDW collects on specific guests, it opens up all kinds of possibilities for personalized marketing opportunities. Want to know how the average AP holder spends time at the parks, or what sort of preferences in touring apply to retirees vs. young parents? This will do it if they can get us to have that tag scanned on a frequent basis as we tour.

 

[nytimez]

The utility of the system for other purposes depends on the range of the tag. I didn't see the specs, but a really small tag tends to have a range of no more than 6 inches; a tag that is as large as a CC might go up to about 12. REALLY long-range scanning presently requires a pretty large tag with a power source in it; the sort that is used for tollbooths.

Using them for entry works nicely, but the real value in load management lies in getting location scans throughout the parks and the complex. Such as system would, for instance, tell them exactly how many people head right for TSM at rope drop, and on which day of their visit they did so. In concert with the other demographic info that WDW collects on specific guests, it opens up all kinds of possibilities for personalized marketing opportunities. Want to know how the average AP holder spends time at the parks, or what sort of preferences in touring apply to retirees vs. young parents? This will do it if they can get us to have that tag scanned on a frequent basis as we tour.

And to think, Disney already has years of experience tagging and banding animals at AK. I always knew there was something else going on there.

 

[hollydolly08]

So... If I wanted to get FPs for my group of 5 for TSM I would have to collect all of their wristbands to do it?!?

 

[doconeill]

So... If I wanted to get FPs for my group of 5 for TSM I would have to collect all of their wristbands to do it?!?

Well, until we know how FP is going to be dealt with, we can't answer - but if they go to wristbands for park tickets, yes.

 

[hollydolly08]

Thanks for your reply

 

[Schmeck]

The savvy scammer in this case wouldn't be able to get too far. He won't have access to the specific info on the Disney card -- just the card itself. In other words, after going through the trouble of replicating it, he'd only be able to use it at Disney -- he won't have access to the credit card info linked to your card, because that's not actually on the card itself.

The savvy scammer would ultimately be able to create a card that's only usable at Disney, only for the time you're there -- which is unknown to the thief -- and only for a limited amount of money, since there are limits to KTTW charging privileges (which is also unknown to the thief).

Put it all together, and I don't see why a scammer would waste his time and effort for a payoff that could be quite small. Also, with all the cameras at WDW (especially in the stores), once someone alerts security to the scam, he's bound to be caught or at least identified.

And finally, in most cases the customer isn't liable for fraudulent charges. I haven't seen the specifics of this case, but I can't imagine it would be otherwise. You should always keep an eye on your bill anyway...

This makes sense if it is true, that Disney would only put ticket info onto the ticket and keep the credit card info off of it, only accessible through WDW's computer system. Your first statement doesn't make sense though - isn't the specific info on the card, the info on the card? What else would someone have access to? What exactly do you mean by 'the card itself'?

I do keep an eye on my credit card statements, and on my phone bills, etc, because I have been incorrectly charged a few times by scammers. The problem with having to deal with the issue after it occurs is that it takes my time and effort to correct the problem, and while it is not resolved I have limited credit options. I would prefer not having sensitive info on an item that is easily read, so that credit/identity theft doesn't occur in the first place.

 

[KBoopaloo]

Very cool. We already use something very similar on buses here, except there's a turnstile. It seems to work pretty well. I never had it not work for me and it almost always works on the first try.

I'm guessing they don't have a turnstile right now because it's only being tested? I think it would be very difficult to make sure no one without a ticket got in without a turnstile.

As for the bracelet thing, I'm sure you will have the option of using a card if you prefer. I'm sure Disney will like that too, since it's probably cheaper.

I was wondering about the no turnstile aspect of it as well. A lot of the photos I saw had one CM manning 3 or 4 scanners. It seems like at a very busy time like rope drop, it would be much easier for someone to just walk right past the scanners unnoticed than it would be to get past the turnstiles.