Return To Neverland

[MickeyMoose15]

The official site is up and running with a trailer on disney.com. Check it out!

http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/neverland/index2.html

 

[JustBob]

We saw the preview when we went to Max Keeble. The animation looks fair, but the story looks very predictable (ooh, Wendy's daughter is involved...big surprise.) I was EXTREMELY disappointed with the fact that at one point the "Lovin' Spoonful"'s "Do You Believe In Magic" is used. I don't know if that was just for the preview or is used in the movie, but when, oh when will they stop retreading oldies for use in movies today? Unless "Neverland" has a late 60's sequence I don't want to hear source music from that time.

Walt himself made a point of NOT wanting "current" sounding music for Snow White. He wanted it to be timeless, not tied in with a particular decade.

This leads me to a topic I've broached a few times on these boards, but gotten really no nibbles. Is there anyone out there that is sick and tired of Disney using pop stars to write the songs for their musicals? Elton John, Phil Collins, Sting - I guess these guys are great in the realm of pop music, but they're hacks in the music theater department.

The songs that have really lasted over the last decade and a half from Disney are not "Trashin' the camp", "Be Prepared", some fluff from "Emperor's New Groove". No, the songs that last are "God Help the Outcasts", "Beauty and the Beast", even "Colors of the Wind"! I get chills when I hear the opening sequence from "Hunchback", and the beginning to "Beauty and the Beast could have been plucked from the very best of Broadway musicals.


I suppose it's more cost cutting measures, but I have to say that if the songs and music were decent on such recent sequels as "Lady and the Tramp 2", "Little Mermaid 2", any of the other "2's" out there, the overall quality of the movies would be almost up to thater release standards. The one HUGE exception to all of this is the fantastic work that Randy Newman does on everything he is attached with. Jessie's song in Toy Story 2 was one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.


By the way, Mr. Moderator, if you think this would play better on the debate board, please move it.

Thanks.

End of rant.

 

[Another Voice]

Animated features produced before ‘Lion King’ were made with the idea that they would be released into theaters ever seven years. The company had been following that practice since ‘Snow White’ and had made a bundle of money. So there was a lot of incentive to keep the films “timeless” for future generations.

Then along came the video cassette player and “modern” ways of marketing films. Instead of creating a movie that would last decades (seven years at a time), the films were produced to hit big at the box office and then hit big on home video – a life cycle of eighteen months. Instead of letting a film develop by word of mouth, Hollywood now bombards the country with marketing in a very short period of time to get as many people as possible will see the movie in that short year and a half time period. Just like you get “Top 40” instant music, we’re now getting “Top 10” instant movies.

The “pop tunes” in Disney movies are just another marketing vehicle. It’s thought that a hit song will drive both soundtrack and home video sales. To guarantee airplay, Disney must use commercial artists – although Elton John and Sting are about as “big name” as they’re willing to spend. What’s a bigger problem, in my opinion, is that the classics, ‘Mermaid’, ‘Beauty’, and ‘Aladdin’ were written as theatrical musicals where the songs drove the plot. Songwriters have scored the films since then and the songs themselves are just kind of tossed into the movie. That’s a much, much weaker story structure and those films have suffered for it.

We’ll have to see what happens in the future. ‘Treasure Planet’ (if it’s ever completed) does not have any songs in the movie, but will probably have an MTV-friendly track for it’s closing credits. ‘Lilo and Stitch’ is based around old Elvis Pressley tunes and the fragments that I’ve seen work very well. The scores for all the other animated sequels are a mixture of “original” and instantly forgettable songs and covers of existing pop-songs. I don’t know if ‘Magic’ is in the finished ‘Peter Pan 2’ or if it was just used for the trailer. The trailer on Disney’s website was put together very quickly after the first one was pulled.

And a note to parents: The story for ‘Peter Pan 2’ takes place during the blitz in World War II. The original edit of the film had several scenes of the bombing of London and a sequence where Wendy’s daughter and Captain Hook’s ship were chased by Nazi fighter planes. I’ve heard rumors that the film has been edited a bit, but considering the images we’ve been seeing on our televisions parents should be aware of their children’s reaction.

 

[JustBob]

I agree, the best Disney musicals had lyricists contributing heavily to the story development. Anymore, it's just "Oh that's a catchy tune, and it mentions one of the characters (or could be forced into the plot at some point.)"
What a shame.
You know, as good as Lion King was, it was Hans Zimmer's African flavoring that lifted it above the mundane, musically. (Not to mention that African fellow whose name eludes me at this time, sorry.) Elton and Tim's songs were really rather blah.

 

[hellokitty]

i enjoyed all the music in the lion king!!
I myself prefere music from todays times , I can relate to movie better if I know the song and/or it has a modern tune
I thought elton john's song was great in LIon kIng
some people love how they do the music in disney movies!!

 

[YoHo]

It could simply be a Shrek Reaction.

Now I'm not Shrek's biggest fan, I used to be a Fan Of Smash mouth, but that whole opening sequence music made me gag.

And I'm a believer at the end.

Talk about NOT timeless.

 

[wdwendyd]

Everytime I listen to the finale from Pocahontas, tears start rolling down my face. The orchestration is so beautiful! Then I have to quick hit the stop button before the Vanessa William's version of "Colors of the Wind" comes on.

 

[All Aboard]

wdwendyd,

precisely, or worse - when Bette Midler sings "God Help the Outcasts" or Christina Aguillera sings "Reflection".

 

[d-r]

you know what? The monters, inc. commercial has the doors "break on through to the other side" playing in the background. Although I don't know, I don't think that they actually used that music in the movie, is is just in the promo. Similarly, I believe that "do you believe in magic" is only being used in the promo, not the film itself. Again, I could be wrong.

FWIW, "someday my prince will come" sounds like it is from a different era than "colors of the wind" to me - actually, I always thought that the music in snow white seemed really period. I guess my only knowledge of what pop music sounded like in 1937 is based on movies and such, but I had the impression that the music in snow white was pretty typical. And I'm pretty sure they were "pop tunes" at least by the 60's and the "bear necessities" and "everybody wants to be a cat" - heck, I'm sure before that. Maybe I'm just feeling grumpy, but does "I wanna be like you," "Beauty and the Beast," "Once upon a dream," "when I see an elephant fly" and "whistle while you work" sound like the are from the same timeless era? To me they all seem pretty period. Maybe I don't have a very well trained ear. I think that most of the songs from the "2nd golden age" movies (little mermaid, batb, alladan, lion king) sound like modern musical shows actually.

Of course, the baha men's rendition of "who woke snow white up" is a different issue entirely.

DR

 

[YoHo]

Everybody Wants to be a Cat, I wanna be like you and many others are very Jazz like, I wouldn't say its period music. More genre based. Usually in the past Disney has used Jazz for offbeat characters that may not fit with a traditional classical type music.

Most of the music is somewhat related to period as Orchestral music changes over time. BUT, I find orchestrated Scores to be far more timeless.

 

[meeko_33785]

I have seen the preview for Peter Pan 2, and I cannot tell much about the film. Therefore, I'm not going to make any judgements on the film before seeing it. The animation looks OK for a direct-to-video movie, but should not be expected to be the original Peter Pan.
On the subjet of using "Do You Believ in Magic" in the title, I really doubt it will be used in the movie. It's just a currnt trend, it seems, in adverising in animation and in general to use familiar music in previews and commercials (Remember "Wooly Bullie" for "Groove", "Wipe Out" for "Atlantis" and others?). There will probably be original songs in the movie, but don't expect them to be beter than Lady and the Tramp 2 or, at the most, Lion King 2.

 

[MickeyMoose15]

It looks pretty good for a film which was originally planned for direct to video release.

 

[JeffJewell]

It looks pretty good for a film which was originally planned for direct to video release

...that's a fair assessment of what "Disney Quality" has come to mean over the past few years.

Jeff

 

[JustBob]

Everytime I listen to the finale from Pocahontas, tears start rolling down my face. The orchestration is so beautiful! Then I have to quick hit the stop button before the Vanessa William's version of "Colors of the Wind" comes on.
Now, that's funny!inkbounc
Seriously, I guess my problem with most of the pop artist's scores is that in my ears they all sound the same! Menken and Schwartz can weave out beautiful melody after melody, Schwartz especially can come up with the most poignant and clever lyrics. Everything Elton et al come up with has the same pop blandness. i suppose an opposing viewpoint might claim that the stuff I like has the same broadway musical blandness, but I just don't think so.
Oh well, it's fun to hear others' opinions!

 

[MickeyMoose15]

Well, Disney needs to get some money somewhere in the animation industry. Their past couple of animated releases (DINOSAUR, The Emperor's New Groove, Atlantis: The Lost Empire, and Fantasia 2000) were disappointments in the box office. The real source of revue in animation for them has been PIXAR but they don't always come out with a film each year, so they need to find something....no matter how cheap it really is.

 

[meeko_33785]

Originally posted by wdwendyd
Everytime I listen to the finale from Pocahontas, tears start rolling down my face. The orchestration is so beautiful! Then I have to quick hit the stop button before the Vanessa William's version of "Colors of the Wind" comes on.

I've got to say, all of Disney's instrumentals are wonderful, but some of the ones in Pocahontas are the best. Unfortunatly the same can't be said for the end title version of "Colors of the Wind". It's just not as good as the rest of the music (If you can believe this, I talked to someone who swore that Vanessa Williams wrote all the songs for the film). What I'm saying is, for sequals like Peter Pan, don't expect anything like the scores from Pocahontas. Probably expect more of something on the line of a pop renditions (I'm sure they'll do a new verion of "You Can Fly" over the end credits or soemthing like they did for Bella Note.

 

[MickeyMoose15]

Considering that the movie made $54 million dollars and cost $120-$150 million makes it a disappoinment.

 

[YoHo]

I don't think they ever really expected to recoup their losses on it. It was put out at Roy Disney's Insistance.