Response from DVC legal about renting/transfers!!! READ THIS

[Anjelica]

The difference is the commercial renter who owns 5,000 points at BCV, for example, has every right to use those 5,000 points to make ressies at their home resort within the 11-month booking window.

The person who owns 100 points at BCV, transfers in 4,900 from other resorts (which magically morph into BCV points once transferred) is not using their legitimate rights. They are making ressies with points they do not own at that resort (and often with points they don't own at all!) -- and if you are losing a ressie to that person, you've been cheated.

If you get beat out by a commercial renter who lives on the phone, they are just doing what they have a right to do -- book with their points at their real home resort.

***
Incidentally, I don't rent points, and don't really care whether people rent or not, as long as they are not depriving other members of things to which they are entitled..

I thought, though, that commercial renting (regardless of where the points come from) is not allowed or is that incorrect?

 

[JimMIA]

I thought, though, that commercial renting (regardless of where the points come from) is not allowed or is that incorrect?

I'll let Dean and Doc argue that one!

As I understand it, the POS says that renting is allowed...AND that DVC is not designed as a commercial enterprise...AND that DVC reserves the right to cancel ressies if they perceive a "pattern of commercial rental behavior." What that means to me is they consider renting okay, as long as it's done within the rules, but they reserve the right to step in and stop commercial use they consider inappropriate.

Keep in mind that the POS says something to the effect of "...in DVC's sole discretion," meaning ugly is entirely in the eye of the beholder, and they don't have to take enforcement in every case, or even in every identical case.

 

[Disneyrsh]

.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Well, that would be MY ressie you're talking about.

And it harms nobody.

It is not selfish to let somebody who has never tried DVC before go to Disney during Christmas for about half of what Disney would charge them.

They save money, I don't lose money on my points, and everyone is happy.

In fact, this was how we found the Disboards, rented from a DVC owner, and became owners ourselves.

It's all GOOD.

Good for the Disboards, who get increased traffic, good for the owners, who can rent out their unused points, and good for the people who check out the disboards and save money on Disney.

Nobody gets "ripped off." Your argument is illogical and fueled by some sort of resentment about owners who maximize their use of their DVC's....The only people that I'm "hurting" are those too stupid to know how to book at their home resort in the 11 month window. If you want to go to VWL for Christmas, either buy my ressie or become an owner there....

No, it's not all good. It's not good for the other member who did call at 11 months out and could not get their vacation because YOU and others who book the prime times and rent them to non-owners got there a bit before them. It's not like some members are waiting until 3 months out to get their vacation. Some weren't getting them at 10 months out because of members renting out to non-members. It's a lot different if you choose to rent your points and make a reservation for a non-member based on what they need, not what you think they might need.

And... have you even sold your reservation yet? Last time I looked it was still there on eBay waiting for a buyer.

 

[Disneyrsh]

 

[RobDoc]

I thought, though, that commercial renting (regardless of where the points come from) is not allowed or is that incorrect?

I'll let Dean and Doc argue that one!

I suspect that Dean and I agree 100% with the part of the reported comments from DVC legal about members being able to rent out their own points without concern. Renting is one of the basic tenets of the DVC program and I think we both agree that is the case.

The report today (if true) reinforces (for me at least) the belief that DVC does have the ability, the right and the responsibility to act against owners who are liberally exceeding the ability to rent to others by using not only their own points, but also points gained from other owners. I'll let Dean make comment about where he may agree or disagree with today's comments, but I'm fine with the comments and feel they would appear to be supported by the POS and FL statutes. Whether they actually came from DVC legal counsel is another issue.

 

[Anjelica]

I've got it right....

Is there a limit on how many points one can own at a particular DVC?

 

[dianeschlicht]

I've got it right....

Is there a limit on how many points one can own at a particular DVC?

There is supposed to be. I thought it was 2000 points per resort and 5000 total, but I can't seem to locate that in the documents just yet.

 

[spiceycat]

There is supposed to be. I thought it was 2000 points per resort and 5000 total, but I can't seem to locate that in the documents just yet.

that was I got told too. that would be in your name.

but I got told that any children or spouse could also own....

so if you have the money.....

this person went through resales. Since DVC is only checking on ROFR and not how many points this person already has - I would think this might change too.

 

[RobDoc]

The limit is 2000 at any one resort and 5000 aggregate points. However, this can easily (and apparently legally) be exceeded depending on how the ownerships are titled. ie: a husband owns 5000 points in his name only, his wife owns 5000 points in her name only, they own 5000 points jointly and another 5000 are owned by their corporation.

 

[Muushka]

Well, that would be MY ressie you're talking about.

And it harms nobody.

It is not selfish to let somebody who has never tried DVC before go to Disney during Christmas for about half of what Disney would charge them.

They save money, I don't lose money on my points, and everyone is happy.

In fact, this was how we found the Disboards, rented from a DVC owner, and became owners ourselves.

It's all GOOD.

Good for the Disboards, who get increased traffic, good for the owners, who can rent out their unused points, and good for the people who check out the disboards and save money on Disney.

Nobody gets "ripped off." Your argument is illogical and fueled by some sort of resentment about owners who maximize their use of their DVC's.

Disney knows it's going to get their money back, sooner or later. We now have a 350 point DVC, annual passes, and visit 3-5 times a year. Literally about a 1/3 of our disposable income last year went to Disney .

The only people that I'm "hurting" are those too stupid to know how to book at their home resort in the 11 month window. If you want to go to VWL for Christmas, either buy my ressie or become an owner there.

I'm not mad that I can't get into a standard studio at BWV, because I don't own there!

And I really want to thank Dumbo71 for having the cojones to call DVC and get the straight poop on just what's going on over there.

Like I said in my post, this does not affect me one bit. I can book my VWL reservation at 11 months. So continue on maximizing your investment.

 

[LisaS]

He stated that there are renters out there that have hit the 100,000 point total in a given use year.

That's a lot of transfers! They must have been calling MS every day to transfer points. Thanks dumbo71 for getting the real scoop!

 

[Disneyaholic]

It is not selfish to let somebody who has never tried DVC before go to Disney during Christmas for about half of what Disney would charge them.

They save money, I don't lose money on my points, and everyone is happy.
.
.
.

It's all GOOD.
.
.
.

The only people that I'm "hurting" are those too stupid to know how to book at their home resort in the 11 month window. If you want to go to VWL for Christmas, either buy my ressie or become an owner there.

There's the "letter of the law" and there's the "spirit of the law". It's possible to keep one, but break the other...

There's also the "Disney spirit" which many of us here on the DIS adhere to, even though you won't find it in writing anywhere.

We all do what we feel we can do -- to me it all comes down to whether or not you can look yourself in the mirror and truly believe you've done nothing wrong.




JMHO.....

 

[diznyfanatic]

Well, that would be MY ressie you're talking about.

And it harms nobody.

It is not selfish to let somebody who has never tried DVC before go to Disney during Christmas for about half of what Disney would charge them.

They save money, I don't lose money on my points, and everyone is happy.

In fact, this was how we found the Disboards, rented from a DVC owner, and became owners ourselves.

It's all GOOD.

Good for the Disboards, who get increased traffic, good for the owners, who can rent out their unused points, and good for the people who check out the disboards and save money on Disney.

Nobody gets "ripped off." Your argument is illogical and fueled by some sort of resentment about owners who maximize their use of their DVC's.

Disney knows it's going to get their money back, sooner or later. We now have a 350 point DVC, annual passes, and visit 3-5 times a year. Literally about a 1/3 of our disposable income last year went to Disney .

The only people that I'm "hurting" are those too stupid to know how to book at their home resort in the 11 month window. If you want to go to VWL for Christmas, either buy my ressie or become an owner there.

I'm not mad that I can't get into a standard studio at BWV, because I don't own there!

And I really want to thank Dumbo71 for having the cojones to call DVC and get the straight poop on just what's going on over there.

It's not that I'm "too stupid" to book my VWL home resort for our upcoming December trip at the 11 month window, it's that I became a new member and couldn't book our December trip until June when we were entered into the DVC system.

Bet lots of others would say they aren't "too stupid" either, but due to life's circumstances fell just short of being able to make their reservations in time.

You might want to put away that broad brush you're using to paint everyone with.

 

[Disneyrsh]

Um.

 

[JandD Mom]

The only people that I'm "hurting" are those too stupid to know how to book at their home resort in the 11 month window. If you want to go to VWL for Christmas, either buy my ressie or become an owner there.

I'm not mad that I can't get into a standard studio at BWV, because I don't own there!

Well you actually have a good point even though you could have made it in a kinder way. In most timeshare systems, you need to book when your window opens if you want to be guaranteed your week. If you look at the TUG boards, Marriott owners have been debating forever how they can't get through to their MS when the window opens and they can't get their weeks. One of the reasons we bought DVC is that there were less complaints about that.

And that has been our experience. I happen to be one of the people who books at 11 month because I know my children's schedule and I know which weeks we need. I have gotten the "elusive" standard view 2 br at the BW with no problem during F&W during Nov Jersey week, as well as a standard Studio at BW in Oct during F&W. I have even gotten 9 days in a standard view 1 br at BW with 2 months' notice. I have never tried Christmas, Thanksgiving or Easter.

I think I am in luck because BW is one of the larger properties. Maybe it is harder for the BC and VWL people to get what they want because they have fewer rooms.

I also agree that some renting is good. I rented twice before I bought DVC. I research too much so I am not sure we would have purchased without a couple of stays. My real problem is with the Morphing, which I didn't know even existed until a couple of days ago. And it burns me up.

Thanks for all the help and advice. But please let's keep the discussion civil.

 

[RobDoc]

It appears that some are insisting on taking this thread far off-topic with personal insults. It would be wise to consider using PM or email for the personal comments to each other.

 

[WOW]

Thank you so much for the information. We have been members for 12 years and have never rented points. But, one never knows what the future will bring.........if for some reason you are unable to use your points, I feel that you should certainly be able to rent them out.

 

[drakethib]

Nice job OP.

Thanks for making the effort !!!

 

[simzac]

Guess I get to play the devils advocate and go on record saying I'm not so thrilled with what the OP posted. First, what proof do we have he actually spoke to DVC legal, just his word; maybe the OP is just telling everyone what they been wanting to hear. 2nd, if he did actually speak to the legal dept, their unwillingness to do anything about point morphing is very dissapointing to say the least. I feel this is where the real problems lie with the DVC system. 3rd, the statement that members can continue to rent points as long as they are only renting their own points also dissapoints me. I always believed that DVC was set up so families and individuals could secure deluxe accomodations for years to come at Disney resorts. I never dreamed it was set up so anyone could buy all the points they wanted up to the limit, only use a small portion of those, then rent out the remainder to pay for their investment. Boy was I wrong, and with this statement from legal, it will continue to be ok to do so. I don't agree with transfers or renting, but that is just me, and I am obviously in the minority when it comes to doing so. Thanks for your time, just wanted to get this off my mind.