republicans vote down minimum wage again

[georgia4now]

Why would anyone go to Cuba, France or Canada to see a doctor when they're not covered by the national health insurance there? That comment doesn't make sense.

Healthcare is lacking in the US and it's a problem that needs to be resolved at some point. What does it have to do with minimum wage though? I've lost the train of thought here.

I was referring to the comment about "Americans going to foreign countries for healthcare". That's what I didnt understand...for the same reanon you are saying.

 

[LuvDuke]

I have no problem with seeing an increase in minimum wage.

I have a problem with making it livable which none of your links can provide evidence for the impact of that. Today to make it livable would require a significant raise. More than 50 cents or a dollar.

From one of your links (emphasis mine):



People who make only $20K as single parents struggle--and that is $6K more per year than minimum.

It was set up to prevent exploitation but where is the evidence that it was set up to be a liveable wage and keep up with cost of living increases?

I've done some research and I think it's high time the opponents to a raise in the minimum wage, and even the minimum wage itself, do some also.

The facts are out there for anyone who wants to see them.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I've done some research and I think it's high time the opponents to a raise in the minimum wage, and even the minimum wage itself, do some also.

The facts are out there for anyone who wants to see them.

Curious why you ignored the quote from your very own link.


I am not really an opponent to an increase in minimum wage. I just think a livable wage is not a possibility. Your link verifies that.

The OP started off with $5.15 is not livable. Hence the corrolation that if minimum wage were increased--it would all of a sudden be livable with no impact.


http://www.springfield.k12.vt.us/schools/shs/guidance/wage.html

Despite this information...vermont minimum wage is only $7.40 while New Hampshire is only $5.15.

Interesting that VT makes over $2 more than minimum but yet it really isn't considered a livable wage.


So now please provide the link that shows raising the minimum wage by $1 or $2 suddenly makes minimal livable.

They may be out of poverty--but they still aren't making a livable wage.

 

[Charade]

I don't owe anybody an apology. To think so is a little weird. But ok. And yes, since you're all for some capitalism and since some might have to lose jobs so that the poorest of the poor can have a little bit of extra money, I think you should eventually be on the receiving end of a bad situation.

Nice.

Why don't you voluntarily give up $2 an hour from your pay and give it to the lowest person on your companies pay scale? Or doesn't anybody where you work make minimum wage?

 

[Charade]

I've done some research and I think it's high time the opponents to a raise in the minimum wage, and even the minimum wage itself, do some also.

The facts are out there for anyone who wants to see them.

Then explain why the Dems voted it down this time.

 

[Charade]

See post #136

Actually, I don't even know what post #136 is -- I just thought this was some sort of new game

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Then explain why the Dems voted it down this time.

Okay but you may not like that it wasn't their fault that they had to say no.


(just kidding)

 

[LuvDuke]

Curious why you ignored the quote from your very own link.


I am not really an opponent to an increase in minimum wage. I just think a livable wage is not a possibility. Your link verifies that.

The OP started off with $5.15 is not livable. Hence the corrolation that if minimum wage were increased--it would all of a sudden be livable with no impact.


http://www.springfield.k12.vt.us/schools/shs/guidance/wage.html

Despite this information...vermont minimum wage is only $7.40 while New Hampshire is only $5.15.

Interesting that VT makes over $2 more than minimum but yet it really isn't considered a livable wage.


So now please provide the link that shows raising the minimum wage by $1 or $2 suddenly makes minimal livable.

They may be out of poverty--but they still aren't making a livable wage.

I'm not arguing for a living wage as defined by where someone lives. My arguments are for a raise in the minimum wage to prevent exploitation. However, keeping the minimum wage deliberately at a $5.15 subsistance level is, IMO, exploitation. That is my opinion.

The reason why I threw those studies out there is because there is nothing backing up the assertions of all the evils that will happen by raising the minimum wage. To take a futher turn into LaLa Land, then the argument morphs into "why not make it $100 per hour" or some such nonsense.

Sticking just with the OP of raising the minimum wage, those who make an argument should be able to back it up. Or else it is nothing more than an opinion, and again, just like back passages, we all have one.

 

[LuvDuke]

Then explain why the Dems voted it down this time.

When have I ever said Democrats never make a mistake?

I don't care who voted it down and for what reasons, it was wrong to do so ......... IMO.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

17 states are above (some way above) the Federal minimum. Why are we waiting until the Federal goverment does something when 34% of the states have already upped their minimums (some a few times) since the last time it was raised?

Since you are just stuck on $5.15 I am proud to say that OUR state doesn't exploit minimum wage workers per your definition.

You have no studies to prove what happens when you raise minimum wage $4 and more per hour. That type of increase has never happen.

So you are hypothesizing and making an educated guess on what will happen. But there is not proof that if all businesses were required to make this increase--that it would have only the impact of making workers happier and no financial implications in the marketplace.

 

[DISUNC]

The top 5% of wage earners pay 53.25% of all taxes in this country, and the top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of all taxes (2003 calendar year). You're barking up the wrong tree here.

Why don't you and your Lib friends start an organization where you pay a voluntary 10% tax above and beyond so you can help the "victims" of capitalism? Oh wait, because you want ME to have to pay more! No thanks. Put your money where your mouth is or shut up!

Oh yeah, and when's the last time you bumped into someone on his way to Cuba, France, or Canada to see a doctor?

 

[BuckNaked]

Just because someone has a spouse in the Military does not AUTOMATICALLY make them a traveling Nomad!

True. However, she posted her husband's military status as the reason for having so many jobs. Guess you missed that part...

 

[Charade]

Nice rebuttal.

 

[LuvDuke]

17 states are above (some way above) the Federal minimum. Why are we waiting until the Federal goverment does something when 34% of the states have already upped their minimums (some a few times) since the last time it was raised?

Since you are just stuck on $5.15 I am proud to say that OUR state doesn't exploit minimum wage workers per your definition.

You have no studies to prove what happens when you raise minimum wage $4 and more per hour. That type of increase has never happen.

So you are hypothesizing and making an educated guess on what will happen. But there is not proof that if all businesses were required to make this increase--that it would have only the impact of making workers happier and no financial implications in the marketplace.

The only point I'm making is that the minimum wage sets a floor that no employer can go below because of the potential for exploitation. States are more than welcome to set their minimum wage higher based on their citizens needs. That's where local control plays its part.

You correctly stated that no one can predict what will happen if you raise the minimum wage by $4.00 because it has never happened. I never claimed I knew, nor did I hypothesize about it. We can, however, make an educated guess as to what will happen based on what happened in the past when the minimum wage was raised and I provided some studies.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but of all the hot air that's blown around here about raising the minimum wage, I do believe I'm the only who backed my assertions up with facts and studies and I invite others to do the same.

Honestly, LlP, you're argueing with someone who basically agrees with you.

 

[Aidensmom]

The only thing I have been talking about is the actual, real proposal for raising the minimum wage, not for raising it to be whatever is determined as a "livable" wage, not raising it to some ridiculous amount like $1000/hr, and I still am not sure how healthcare got thrown into all of this. Is anyone on this thread debating about the same thing?

 

[shrubber]

Only about two percent of workers over 25 years of age earn minimum wages.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Honestly, LlP, you're argueing with someone who basically agrees with you.

Oh boy--do I feel silly! I hate it when I do that!

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Great Post!

There will always be people who will find reasons why they can't succeed just as they will always be others that simply do what it takes so they do succeed.

I'll second that!

 

[bsmcneil]

Nice.

Why don't you voluntarily give up $2 an hour from your pay and give it to the lowest person on your companies pay scale? Or doesn't anybody where you work make minimum wage?

No one where I work (I don't work for companies [sic]) makes minimum wage and I am the lowest paid person. That said, if paying more in taxes would help a family down the street or across the state have an easier time paying the light bill, buying pencils and paper for school or simply not having to work 60 hours a week so they can take the time to enjoy their kids - I'd sign up in a heartbeat. Some of us DO work to better the world. Some of us DO take pay cuts so that others can have money. I could make a lot more doing any other job I wanted - but I choose to help people because I've experienced absolute poverty and know that there's a way out.

 

[Saxsoon]

I must ask, if the Dems indeed vote down this one, then why does thread say republicans. The Dems are fighting for the raise and the Rebs are fighting for none? Did I miss something?