republicans vote down minimum wage again

[MrsPete]

So I just don't see what the big deal is. It's $160 more for 10 employess for 8 hour shifts. I don't think raising the price of a hamburger 10 cents to support that would hurt me.

Okay, so the extra .10 on a hamburger doesn't bother you -- it'll probably be more than .10 actually, but let's go with that.

Remember that your grocery store clerk is also going to get a "raise" if minimum wage goes up. So every item in your cart will now cost .10 (or more) than it did last week. Plus, gas for your car will go even higher. Your mortgage /rent will increase, as will your utilities. You'll pay higher fees at the bank. Your restaurant meal will cost more.

EVERYTHING will cost more. No one benefits, everyone loses.

 

[MrsPete]

There is ALWAYS a way. You go to school at night and work during the day. Maybe you can't go to college right away, so you learn a trade. Join a union and work while you learn. Find a non-union company like DH's where you work and go to school (for free) on the weekends. Go to hairdresser school. Go to medical assisting school. Go to real estate school. I've done that. It's $399. and is at night. The summer I graduated from college, I worked as a temporary floater secretary at a law firm. All you have to know is how to type and not drool on yourself. I made $17./hour. Go to a secretarial school. There are tons of options, but - and here is the trick - you actually have to stop feeling sorry for yourself that you weren't born into the Trump family and find your options. Call the school. Attend the classes. Most of them have job placement offices. Maybe you do have to take out a loan for a few thousand dollars. No risk. No reward.

I agree -- there's always a way. This is more true now than it ever has been: high schools offer quite a few vocational training programs that lead to skilled jobs after graduation, community colleges are quite a bargain, and many jobs offer on-the-job training that leads to skilled work. Then there's always the military.

The thing is, one must be willing to take advantage of these programs, and that often means starting at the bottom, doing without things at first, etc. But an able-bodied person with an average brain can do something to make something of himself.

 

[MrsPete]

Your politicians should be ashamed of themselves! How can they honestly think that a person working at a minimum wage job for 10 years doesn't deserve a raise? That is outrageous!

If a person STAYS in a minimum wage job for 10 years, something's wrong. Why doesn't that person have the gumption to do something to better himself?

 

[MrsPete]

Does a ride on the subway only cost a quarter? I bet that if you paid 30 cents then subway workers could get a raise.

Seriously, some people just can't do better for various reasons. They're not cut out for schooling and they simply can't advance. That doesn't mean that they don't work hard and don't do good jobs. Should they never get a raise?

Okay, see, this is the problem: You're looking at what the PERSON is worth. That's not how our economy is set up. Oh, it used to be that way: A white man (especially if he had a family) earned a larger wage than a black man or a woman doing the same job. That's in the past.

Today we pay people -- supposedly -- for the JOB they do or the SERVICE they provide, not for who they, themselves, are. So, to use your example, if society has said that the value of a subway ride is .25, then that's what people will pay. It's not a reflection on the people who work there -- it's a matter of what their service is worth.

 

[BuckNaked]

If a person STAYS in a minimum wage job for 10 years, something's wrong. Why doesn't that person have the gumption to do something to better himself?

My point exactly when I said that anyone that stayed in the same minimum wage job for 10 years didn't deserve a raise.

 

[cardaway]

EVERYTHING will cost more. No one benefits, everyone loses.

Like the saying about lunch... there is no such thing as a free raise.

 

[DISUNC]

I don't see why everyone can't "get" what you're saying. The economy is kind of like a balloon -- you push on it in one place, everything else is affected. If minimum wage goes up, McDonald's won't simply accept lower profits; they'll pass the cost on to the consumer (and that means you, me, and the minimum wage guy).

We're just seen this principle at work in America: Gas has increased significantly. As a result, food prices have increased, SUV sales are down, etc. You can't change one part of the economy without changing everything -- or at least many things.

Then how come MANY companies seem fit to raise the CEO & executives salaries by MILLIONS & MILLIONS of dollars (more often to get rid of them) on a DAILY basis? Yet the redderick is that this somehow NEVER affects the companies own pricing structure. This seems to be applauded by Republicans as FREE ENTERPRISE!!!

However if they give POOR Harry from McDonalds a 50cent a Hour wage...IT WILL THROW THE ECONOMY OUT OF BALANCE...WE WILL ALL BE DOOMED!

All you need to know is how to add 2+2, and it is so easy to figure out that the Repubs are full of it!

Please enough with the 'throw the economy off" BS. We now have a president very aptly doing that. Have you people check out the deficit lately????

As I said before & will say again It's Republicans way of keeping FINANCIAL SLAVERY in tact!!!!

 

[Planogirl]

I still believe that more spending money means more buying which is actually good for the economy or so I've heard. I don't believe that these teeny raises will have as much effect as many of you seem to.

10 cents here and 10 cents there? Have any of you checked out the high cost of many goods nowadays? Where is all of that money going? 10 cents is a drop in the bucket.

 

[DISUNC]

If a person STAYS in a minimum wage job for 10 years, something's wrong. Why doesn't that person have the gumption to do something to better himself?

Usually because that person has some type of handicap. Most likely mentally challenged. Thanks to the current adminisration, Companies that hire handicap employees, get more $ a year in Tax cuts for each individual handicap person they hire....then the company actually gives the handicapped person themselves!

Sweet aint it?

The question should be HOW MUCH MORE CAN AMERICAN COMPANIES exploit the mentally challenged AT THE TAX PAYERS EXPENSE???????

Nobody CHOOSES to work at a minimum wage job.

And as far as this silly 'skillset' issue goes...Thats a bunch of crock nowadays! The 'American Dream' is dead!

Ask anybody who taken a new job in the past 5 years, and most likely they will tell you (if truthful) that it was "WHO THEY KNEW" not "WHAT THEY KNEW"...that landed them a position!

 

[LuvDuke]

Ok then!! Why not raise it to something more realistic like $10/hour if it didn't affect anything.

Of course raising the minimum wage affects something. It affects the pocketbook of the one receiving the raise. What it doesn't affect are job losses, inflation, etc. Sorry, but the facts are the facts.

So now what's the opposition to a raise in the minimum wage? If it doesn't do all the horrible things opponents claim it does, what excuse is left except you have no problem with possible exploitation?

 

[katerkat]

Nobody CHOOSES to work at a minimum wage job.

Excuse me? I know plenty of people who CHOSE a minimum wage job, myself included. There's nothing wrong with me - I could have easily gotten a job in the field that I got my college degree. I CHOSE not to, and to work in retail. My coworkers CHOSE to be there, for whatever reason.

Oh, and by the way - I landed four jobs in the last five years (husband's military, what can I say?) Only one was based on "who I knew" (secretary for the Episcopal church in town) - the rest, two newspaper jobs and one retail job, were based on my skills as a writer and a people person. If I couldn't write, why would a newspaper hire me just for knowing the right person?

 

[Free4Life11]

Does someone actually have some hard facts, not just statements or theory, about what happened to prices in 1997? I see lots of "all the prices will rise," but little proof that when the minimum wage has been raised in the past, that has happened.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Nobody CHOOSES to work at a minimum wage job.

And as far as this silly 'skillset' issue goes...Thats a bunch of crock nowadays! The 'American Dream' is dead!

Ask anybody who taken a new job in the past 5 years, and most likely they will tell you (if truthful) that it was "WHO THEY KNEW" not "WHAT THEY KNEW"...that landed them a position!

You're kidding right?

NOBODY chooses. So EVERYONE who is in a minimum wage job is taken there by force.


I *thought* when I worked my minimum wage jobs that I was there by choice. I had no idea that I didn't actually choose--that I was forced to work there. I am amazed. I had no idea. Can I sue for being forced to work against my will?

 

[richiebaseball]

Nobody CHOOSES to work at a minimum wage job.

Bull. With very few exceptions those who make minimum wage do indeed make that choice. People are faced with choices every day that will affect the rest of their lives and a lot of people just make the wrong choices. Oh sure, some people have it easier than others but it's easy to do nothing to try to change your life. But doing nothing is a choice. Not a single person is born with a minimum wage stamp on their forehead.

And as far as this silly 'skillset' issue goes...Thats a bunch of crock nowadays! The 'American Dream' is dead!

Talk about a crock, that's one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

Ask anybody who taken a new job in the past 5 years, and most likely they will tell you (if truthful) that it was "WHO THEY KNEW" not "WHAT THEY KNEW"...that landed them a position!

It all comes back to choice. One person networks, meets different people, makes sure people know who they are and what they do, takes the time to get out and get known. One doesn't. Then when the big job or promotion comes along it's pretty obvious which one gets it. Of course the one that chose to do nothing will whine and cry that old line, "It ain't what you know, it's who you know."

It ain't just what you know and it ain't just who you know. It's do you know what to do with what you've got?

It's your choice.

 

[georgia4now]

Then how come MANY companies seem fit to raise the CEO & executives salaries by MILLIONS & MILLIONS of dollars (more often to get rid of them) on a DAILY basis?

Even if a CEO makes 2 million per year, he or she is likely running a Fortune 300 company. Based on published figures (and the payroll at my company), that's probably 0.001% of gross, and around 0.01% of net. It's *nothing*. But raise the minimum wage from $6.35 to $8.00 and you have yourself a 26% increase. Wages are the single largest controllable expense in any company or department. Bump the bottom line payables by 26% and watch how many people loose their jobs. A staff of 10 will be a staff of 7 by the end of fiscal.

And that bit about financial slavery was was just stupid.

When you factor in pass-thru manufacturing costs, minor inflation, transportation costs, and a boat load of entry-level positions going away to China, you could have yourself a real mess. Plus like another poster said on this topic: Raise minimum wage to $15 per hour, and the LIVING wage will instantly become $16 per hour. There will always be abottom 5% of society. Mathematically, there has to be.

Your posts are proof positive that liberalism is based on all feeling and no brain power. Anyone who has sat through Economics 101 and managed a department with a few direct reports can tell you that any ripple - regardless of how small - will turn into a tidal wave. That's why it's such a big deal when the Feds raise interest rates one half of one percent - they could shut down the economy!

Bashing big business is stupid - we all work for big business, or start small business ourselves.

My advice to you: read a book.

 

[LuvDuke]

Does someone actually have some hard facts, not just statements or theory, about what happened to prices in 1997? I see lots of "all the prices will rise," but little proof that when the minimum wage has been raised in the past, that has happened.

This is just one of many studies that are out there:

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwagefaq

This one will be ignored, just as all the others are ignored, because they torpedo people's cherished belief in logical fallacies and political ideology.

It's the same with healthcare. They rail against "socialized medicine", claim it will destroy the "best healthcare system in the world", and the reality is those countries with universal healthcare live longer, loss fewer babies at birth, and it costs less. Doesn't matter.

Anyway, FWIW, I linked to one study.

*Edited to correct a non-working link*

 

[georgia4now]

It's the same with healthcare. They rail against "socialized medicine", claim it will destroy the "best healthcare system in the world", and the reality is those countries with universal healthcare live longer, loss fewer babies at birth, and it costs less. Doesn't matter.

You forgot to add they pay 40%+ income taxes, people from Canada are flooding in to Michigan and New York for healthcare because the waiting list is so long, and many people in the EU don't own homes. I work 25% in Belgium and 25% in the U.K., and I don't want any part of the mess they have going on over there. Great people, lovely countries, but a weak economy.

Liberals are always using the "bleeding heart" smoke screen to deter from the fact that their ideas, though admirable and likely rooted in good-faith, can not be supported in a capitalistic system. Who's going to pay for all this stuff? Raise minimum wage, pay for healthcare, double education funding, double medical research funding, send poor kids to college, feed the rest of the world, give illegal immigrants welfare, education, and helthcare, defend our interests BUT never go to war, the list goes on and on.

Again, the only way we can pay for all of this is Marxism "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Sound familiar?

"New York Times: In addition, the amount of time a Canadian patient must wait before receiving medical care is notorious. "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years," said Dr. Brian Day in a recent New York Times article on Canada's health care crisis." http://www.reason.com/rb/rb030306.shtml[/URL

 

[eclectics]

You forgot to add they pay 40%+ income taxes, people from Canada are flooding in to Michigan and New York for healthcare because the waiting list is so long, and many people in the EU don't own homes. I work 25% in Belgium and 25% in the U.K., and I don't want any part of the mess they have going on over there. Great people, lovely countries, but a weak economy.

Liberals are always using the "bleeding heart" smoke screen to deter from the fact that their ideas, though admirable and likely rooted in good-faith, can not be supported in a capitalistic system. Who's going to pay for all this stuff? Raise minimum wage, pay for healthcare, double education funding, double medical research funding, send poor kids to college, feed the rest of the world, give illegal immigrants welfare, education, and helthcare, defend our interests BUT never go to war, the list goes on and on.

Again, the only way we can pay for all of this is Marxism "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Sound familiar?

"New York Times: In addition, the amount of time a Canadian patient must wait before receiving medical care is notorious. "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years," said Dr. Brian Day in a recent New York Times article on Canada's health care crisis." http://www.reason.com/rb/rb030306.shtml[/URL

You say you work part time in some of these countries, but you aren't a citizen of them, are you? We have a lot of Canadians and UK'ers on these boards. I would like to hear their own opinions on the state of their healthcare systems and wether or not they consider it as dismal a failure as you claim it to be.

 

[georgia4now]

You say you work part time in some of these countries, but you aren't a citizen of them, are you? We have a lot of Canadians and UK'ers on these boards. I would like to hear their own opinions on the state of their healthcare systems and wether or not they consider it as dismal a failure as you claim it to be.

The dismal failure comes not from the quality of healthcare, but the accessability to it and the unbelieveable cost. Do a google search for goodness sake! Ignore the right-wing rhetoric and the left-wing socialist tripe, and take a look at statistics.

Again, I can't seem to get ANYONE to answer the simple question: WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THIS?

This is the problem with our two-party system: Republicans want to control your activities, Democrats want to control your checkbook.

As far as me not being a citizen of those countries, that's fair enough. I spend 1 week per month just north of Brussels, Belgium and about 2 weeks per quarter in Coventry, England so I cannot presume to speak for everyone (plus my French is pretty bad, and my Flemish is laughable) But I can tell you this topic is often debated by locals. People on both sides seem to be very passionate about it over there just as we are here.

In my opinion, (over here or over there) it does not seem to be a debate about does one idea work or not, the question seems to be "is it worth the price".

I would love to get some posters from Europe or Canada to weigh in on the subject...

 

[cteddiesgirl]

Lots of clerical workers make a LOT more than minimum wage.

Oh yeah? Then why do I make less than $3 ph above min wage? And that's with all my years and experience working in offices. Not to mention that I did go to college.



And by the way, for the OP and the Republican bashers:

The vote for the bill ended with 45 yea's from all republicans.
The nay's were 10 republicans and 43 Democrats.

I'd say before anyone makes assumptions over who is at fault for the bill not passing, they need to look to see who voted for and against it.
Also, people need to realize that almost all bills have attachments that may be the cause of the bill's downfall.

For the record, I don't align myself with either party. I am a Libra and I'm all about balance. And the government at all levels should be balanced to serve the masses in the best possible way.