republicans vote down minimum wage again

[Chicago526]

An increased minimum wage would not guarantee that they would have had it easier.

That is the point we we are trying to make.

Where did I say that raising the minimum wage would guarantee anything?

Sure, a raise in MW doesn't guarantee a life full of roses, but maybe it's the differance between a single mom working 2 jobs instead of three, or even just being able to take the bus in the winter instead of walking to work. When you live off of minimum wage, every penny you make counts, and even a small increase can (not WILL, but CAN) make a huge impact.

 

[eclectics]

I'm not convinced about the dire warnings that all these small businesses will go under if the wage went up a bit. I think a lot of it is overhyped. The larger corporations such as McDonalds and Wal Mart etc. can certainly swallow the loss to their bottom line. If raising the wage can enable a college kid to save a little bit more so he or she can start to pay off their student loan or if a single mom can get a few more bucks that might make the difference between having to go on assistance or not, I'm all for it. The majority of Americans make way over the minimum wage and the few that raising it will help, do really need it, especially today when prices for just about everything is skyrocketing.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Where did I say that raising the minimum wage would guarantee anything?

Sure, a raise in MW doesn't guarantee a life full of roses, but maybe it's the differance between a single mom working 2 jobs instead of three, or even just being able to take the bus in the winter instead of walking to work. When you live off of minimum wage, every penny you make counts, and even a small increase can (not WILL, but CAN) make a huge impact.

Well you asked this question:

Here's a question for you. What if, at the time, minimum wage had been higher so you only would have had to work TWO jobs instead of three? Wouldn't that have been easier for you. Not easy, just easier?

It seems you are implying that an increased minimum wage makes things easier. B/c they wouldn't have to work as much. You are implying that higher minimums = work less.

Sure every penny counts. But when expenses go up as a reflection of the increased minimum wage--kind of cancels each other out.

 

[Free4Life11]

The alternative is a congress/senate full of millionaires.

And you're saying it's not already full of millionaries?

(sorry if this was already stated)

Now isn't that interesting. All the 'yea's were "R"s

But a closer look reveals that it was attached to a defense spending bill. Apparently the Dems (all of them) didn't like the defense spending bill.

My bad. The previous link was for another amendment that would increase the minimum wage to:
`(A) $5.70 an hour, beginning 6 months after the date of enactment of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007; and

``(B) $6.25 an hour, beginning 18 months after such date of enactment;''.

(b) Effective Date.--The amendment made by subsection (a) shall take effect 6 months after the date of enactment of this Act.


The $7.25 bill (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00179) would lead to the following increase:
``(A) $5.85 an hour, beginning on the 60th day after the date of enactment of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007;
``(B) $6.55 an hour, beginning 12 months after that 60th day; and
``(C) $7.25 an hour, beginning 24 months after that 60th day;''.

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Another point: for states that DO have higher minimum wages, are prices higher? And for what goods, necessity goods (housing, utilities, food, clothing) or luxury goods (movies, cable TV, internet access, Disney trips, etc.)?

 

[Bob Slydell]

I'm not convinced about the dire warnings that all these small businesses will go under if the wage went up a bit. I think a lot of it is overhyped. The larger corporations such as McDonalds and Wal Mart etc. can certainly swallow the loss to their bottom line. If raising the wage can enable a college kid to save a little bit more so he or she can start to pay off their student loan or if a single mom can get a few more bucks that might make the difference between having to go on assistance or not, I'm all for it. The majority of Americans make way over the minimum wage and the few that raising it will help, do really need it, especially today when prices for just about everything is skyrocketing.

Except that the WalMarts and McDonalds of the world aren't going to just swallow the loss and eat the extra cost. Rather, they'll raise prices to offset the extra expense and keep their margins relatively steady.

 

[mrsltg]

Here's a question for you. What if, at the time, minimum wage had been higher so you only would have had to work TWO jobs instead of three? Wouldn't that have been easier for you. Not easy, just easier? Or you still work three jobs and are able to pay back student loans faster, or help a younger sibling pay for college, or give money to an ailing parent who needs more than a Social Security check to get by? Your drive and work ethic are still the same, but life is just a tiny bit easier for you, thanks to a paycheck that's a little bit higher.

An increase helps those that ARE working multiple jobs to get by, or get ahead. It doesn't just help "the lazy ones", a rising tide lifts ALL boats.

It wouldn't have mattered. I was not working for minimum wage. Further, it's not the job of the federal government to make life easier for anyone. It's not. Plain and simple. It is your job to make your life easier. It's your job to increase your market value.

As far as a large company swallowing the losses- I'm stumped. People work there. People are share holders. If the bottom line sinks, so does the economy. Raising the minimum wage does not happen in a bubble. It effects everything. McDonald's will raise the price of a burger if minimum wage goes up. Housing and transportation costs will increase if minimum wage goes up. The poverty line will also rise with a minimum wage increase. Poor people will still be poor. There will still be a mean, median, and average of salaries. If you are at the bottom now, you will be at the bottom then. Then we can say, "Well, the last $2 increase didn't work. Let's make it a $4 increase this time." And the same thing will happen. This is a free market (or at least, it's supposed to be). Someone will always be at the bottom. Unless, dare I say it, are we going to become a socialist society? Maybe the Feds can dictate the prices of consumer goods...

 

[Free4Life11]

Except that the WalMarts and McDonalds of the world aren't going to just swallow the loss and eat the extra cost. Rather, they'll raise prices to offset the extra expense and keep their margins relatively steady.

Or in Wal-Marts case force their suppliers to make things cheaper!

But really, what places REALLY pay minimum wage? Not even McDonalds or Wal-Mart in my area pay that low! Wal-Mart employees around here start out at about $7 an hour and I know someone who was making good money at McDonalds and has a lot of opportunities for advancement.

Now that goes two ways: if they are already paying that much, why raise minimum wage OR if they are already paying that much, why do they care if minimum wage is raised.

 

[azgal81]

The only time I ever worked a minimum wage job is when I was in high school working part time. Even in college I was making well over minimum wage. I don't think minimum wage jobs are expected to be a full time job you are at for the rest of your life. I dont understand why anyone stays at a minimum wage job making just that minimum wage if they have a family to support.

 

[Bob Slydell]

But really, what places REALLY pay minimum wage? Not even McDonalds or Wal-Mart in my area pay that low! Wal-Mart employees around here start out at about $7 an hour and I know someone who was making good money at McDonalds and has a lot of opportunities for advancement.

I don't know offhand what places are paying around here, but it all depends on the market. I would imagine there are areas that still pay minimum wages -- those are the areas where unemployment is high and there's not a shortage of people applying for those jobs. In areas where workforce is more scarce, companies need to pay a wage that's competitive with other area companies or else they will lose their employees to those other companies.

Basic supply and demand, without any involvement from the government.

 

[Free4Life11]

Yeah and without the government we'd probably still have slave labor and separate drinking fountains for blacks.

 

[Bob Slydell]

Yeah and without the government we'd probably still have slave labor and separate drinking fountains for blacks.

Your point is?? In the context of the minimum wage discussion, that is??

 

[Free4Life11]

Your point is?? In the context of the minimum wage discussion, that is??

My point is government involvement isn't always a bad thing. Without a government mandated minimum wage (and a ban on slavery) yes I believe some businesses would be practicing slave labor in this country or basically be paying what amounts to slave labor.

Someone just solve this: How much does a ****ing McChicken cost in Rhode Island? I know the minimum wage is higher there, so according to theory, a McChicken in Rhode Island should not be on the $1 value menu like it is in most place.

 

[Decoy]

First, I want to say I have worked minimum wage jobs, sometimes more than one, and I was working these jobs over a period of time when our state had several minimum wage increases.

It was my personal experience that I never stayed at minimum wage for long, however, I at least twice was returned to it when it came up to what I was making. It was very frustrating to work at a company for a year, receive two raises, and then have a brand new unproven employee come in at the same wage I had earned through raises, just because the minimum went up.

Second, I do agree that there must be some minimum wage, and that there should be some level of increases, at a regular interval. I think the level and increases should be set by the states. It has already noted through-out this thread that many states already have higher than federal minimums, and it certainly varies from state to state, what a reasonable wage would be. That said I do not believe that these increases should be large, as it would undeniably cause a certain amount of inflation in and of itself.

Lastly, as mention several times in this thread, it is a MINIMUM wage, not a LIVING wage. It is a wage meant to provide SOME income to an individual.

It is true that in the "real world" many of these jobs are held by those with families, and that is a sad situation. It does not matter whether they are in those jobs because they lack the skills, are lazy or are in an area where no better jobs are to be found, they are there because there are jobs that need little to no skill and more people to fill the position if they leave.

Just a side note: Many of the people I have known to have the best work ethic are people who started working young, as a Newspaper Delivery Person, or in a "work permit" position washing dishes or sweeping floors. These jobs are getting harder to find, as at least here the newspaper routes are all given to adults and delivered by car, not bicycle. Even the "Traditional" teenage burger flipping positions are being filled by the over 30 crowd.

I for one am over 30. I graduated high school with a 2.0 GPA. I tried community college; it was not for me, at least not back then. I started ground level at minimum wage and learned a trade. For health reasons I needed to change professions, so I learned another and am on career path #2 of who knows how many. I make a living at one job, I would not be satisfied flipping burgers at this point in my life, I often wonder why they are, or what magic advantage I had that they do not.

 

[Decoy]

My point is government involvement isn't always a bad thing. Without a government mandated minimum wage (and a ban on slavery) yes I believe some businesses would be practicing slave labor in this country.

Someone just solve this: How much does a ****ing McChicken cost in Rhode Island? I know the minimum wage is higher there, so according to theory, a McChicken in Rhode Island should not be on the $1 value menu like it is in most place.

I have been to McDonald's with different pricing, though not usually on the value menu. However a company as large as McDonalds does not necessarily need to raise their local prices to reflect a local change. They would, and do, pass on increased expenses of any kind to the consumer and a national increase in minimum wage increase might make it the $1.25 Value Menu. (Provided of course that the national minimum actually exceeded the average state minimum, and that McDonalds does in fact pay minimum wage.)

 

[Bob Slydell]

My point is government involvement isn't always a bad thing. Without a government mandated minimum wage (and a ban on slavery) yes I believe some businesses would be practicing slave labor in this country or basically be paying what amounts to slave labor.

First of all, I'm certainly not against all government involvement. I even recognize the need for some level of a minimum wage. But you yourself mentioned that there's no companies around you that even start at minimum wage. Why is that? Is it because employers in Tennessee are so much more generous than ones in some other part of the country? Probably not. Rather, it's because they have to offer that level of wage or they wouldn't have anyone working for them.

 

[Chicago526]

It wouldn't have mattered. I was not working for minimum wage. Further, it's not the job of the federal government to make life easier for anyone. It's not. Plain and simple. It is your job to make your life easier. It's your job to increase your market value.

As far as a large company swallowing the losses- I'm stumped. People work there. People are share holders. If the bottom line sinks, so does the economy. Raising the minimum wage does not happen in a bubble. It effects everything. McDonald's will raise the price of a burger if minimum wage goes up. Housing and transportation costs will increase if minimum wage goes up. The poverty line will also rise with a minimum wage increase. Poor people will still be poor. There will still be a mean, median, and average of salaries. If you are at the bottom now, you will be at the bottom then. Then we can say, "Well, the last $2 increase didn't work. Let's make it a $4 increase this time." And the same thing will happen. This is a free market (or at least, it's supposed to be). Someone will always be at the bottom. Unless, dare I say it, are we going to become a socialist society? Maybe the Feds can dictate the prices of consumer goods...

We've had minimum wages in this country for over 50 years. We haven't turned socialist and our economy over the last 50 years has done pretty well, overall. If having or raising the minimum wage is so destructive, why haven't we seen the damage before this?

Look, at the end of the day, people ARE responsible for making their own lives better. You are 100% right on that point and I have always thought so and I am certainly not argueing against personal responsibilty. All I am saying is that we should help those making minimum wage help themselves, by ensuring that get paid a bit more.

 

[Chicago526]

The only time I ever worked a minimum wage job is when I was in high school working part time. Even in college I was making well over minimum wage. I don't think minimum wage jobs are expected to be a full time job you are at for the rest of your life. I dont understand why anyone stays at a minimum wage job making just that minimum wage if they have a family to support.

I don't know why, either, but they are...

According to Volunteers of America, 40% of homeless families have at least one working adult. According to the US Conference of Mayors, 22% of all homeless have a job, and 17 out of 25 cities surveyed listed “low wages” as the number one reason for homelessness.... according to the Bureau of the Census, 74% of minimum wage earners are adult, 50% work full time and 40% are the sole breadwinner in their family.

 

[dennis99ss]

Not bored enough to read the whole thread, so I will just jump in and see what kind of stir was here before, and see if I can't just jump right inot it

My two cents from some of the posts here. i.e. people should get an education and then they wouldn't be at minimum wage, kind of leaves out the fact that most people who rely on the minimum wage come from a lower econimic level than most of the people who have the means to have internet access and a computer. That being said, a majority of those people probably do not have great access to the educational system in the US anymore, past high school, as a result of the major cuts in the financial aid which is offered by higher educational facilities, especially since the education costs have gone up approximately 68% (or something l;ike that) in the recent years.

So, you tell people to go get an education to get off minimum wage, and then you don't give them the opportunity to do so. Kind of like, let them eat cake, in my book.

 

[Olaf]

And you're saying it's not already full of millionaries?

Yes, there's a lot of very wealthy people in Congress, but it would be even worse if we didn't pay them a decent wage. You were attempting to draw some kind of analogy between what we pay congressmen and the minimum wage, and there is absolutely no correlation. The idea that market forces should be brought to bear on members of congress is a specious argument, and would be counterproductive.

 

[Olaf]

I don't know why, either, but they are...

I could pull statistics out off the internet until the cows go home. The only ones I'm going to give much credence to are from the census bureau and the deparment of labor.

Here's a recent, well researched article on the subject.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/busines...s/stories/MYSA061706.1D.hendricks.ac2439.html

This says it all.

In 1980, the percentage of hourly workers earning the minimum wage was 15.1 percent. That does not consider the self-employed, contract workers, people exempt from hour-and-wage rules, and other wage earners. In 2004, the latest year for which a figure is available, the percentage of minimum-wage workers had fallen to 2.7, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.