Reports are in: Bellman are pressuring guest for tips...

[cobbler]

We were at the Contemporary the same week as the person reporting on the resorts board and never had that problem. Our bellman was really nice, never pressured for a tip or anything.

Bell services was also holding something for us that arrived after our check-in and my hubby went to tip and she smiled and declined, said it was her pleasure and no tip needed.

One bad apple I guess.

 

[bicker]

I typically don't tip when the waiter takes my order (or when someone delivers the bread basket), when the bellman takes my bags for storage, or when the valet takes my car keys. I also don't tip housekeeping for the way the room was cleaned before I got there (which actually is the most important, isn't it?) I tip for the good service that was provided after it has been provided. As a former waitress and bartender, it is the possibility of a tip for excellent service that is the whole point of tipping, tipping at the front end of a service is counter-intuitive to me.

This is a good summary. The only thing I'd add to it is the one exception: If you arrive before check-in time, you need TWO services from bell services: (1) storage of your luggage, and (2) bringing luggage to your room. Because you've arrived so early, it is your need that requires the storage, so you should tip for that service separately. Out of practicality, you need to tip for that at the time the bags are taken from you, since you won't be there when the luggage is passed from storage to the staffer who brings them to your room.

 

[Deb & Bill]

About the only time that I was ever "pressured" was when I was in an elevator with a bellman and remembered that Valet parking was free for DVC members. He looked at me and said "not really". Other than that, I have never felt any pressure from any bellmen but maybe that is cause we tip.

Valet PARKING is free to DVC members at BC, WL and BW. You are not required to pay the Valet Parking Fee. No other location. But you should still tip for the service you received.

 

[Melrosgirl]

One more reason I like magical express, LOL. It magically appears in my room when I'm not there.

Seriously though, everytime we use a bellman to store our bags, etc., they give us the "you won't be seeing me again" talk. Yeah, guy, I get it.

 

[disney junky]

Seriously though, everytime we use a bellman to store our bags, etc., they give us the "you won't be seeing me again" talk. Yeah, guy, I get it.

Shoot...I always tell them good luck in their new position. I guess I just assumed they were moving on....here all this time they wanted tips....my bad.

 

[jdg345]

Question: Is there a rate for tipping Bell Services? Is it like $1.00 per bag or something?

 

[bicker]

$1-$2 per bag.

 

[patsal]

I've never felt pressured at VWL, but at BCV, wow ! The best thing I ever found was the self park lot!

 

[DisDaydreamer]

Does "free" mean "no tipping"? I thought "free" just meant there is no charge, which (I thought) is generally different and separate from tipping. Now I am confused...

You've really presented a $64K question. I truly enjoy tipping people with a good tip for special care or effort. I imagine tipping began as a reward for (or motivator to) providing special care or service. I think in the past, more so than today, this was effective in encouraging better service. Unfortunately, I think employers over the years have seen and taken an opportunity to lower their costs by lowering or (holding low) base wages and making tips be a part (and sometimes the greatest part) of an employee's wages. So now these employees often look at tips as YOUR part of their rightful wages.

Personally, I find it interesting that it is expected that we tip Bell or Valet services, when it is not expected that we tip the Activity CMs, Lifeguards, or Check-In CMs. I have a tendancy to watch and evaluate lifeguards and Activity CMs, and have on many occasions gone up to one and said "I have been watching you do your job and I want you to know I think you do your job especially well" and ask them for their name so I can pass my feelings on to management. I am sure if I offered them $5 for doing a good job I would get a "thanks, but no thanks". The same with Check-In CMs. Many times I have been greatly relieved at a problem being fixed because the CM made an extra effort to fix it. I think if I were to hold out $5 to one of these CMs I would probably get the look from one who has just been insulted.

I rarely ever use Bell or Valet services, but I personally would prefer to pay higher MFs to have all employees at DVCs say "no thanks... they take care of me here, I am part of the family". Unrealistic? Maybe so.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Pressuring me for a tip is a really good way to assure that you aren't going to get one. I stopped using a limo service up here because the drivers did that and I told the office why I was stopping.

 

[Mtnman44]

Very Well Said. It seems all too often that TIPS have ceased being effective for their original purpose and are now simply presumed and expected fees, kinda like sales tax.

To me, I see very little difference in just putting up a tip jar for the check in CMs, as you mentioned.

You've really presented a $64K question. I truly enjoy tipping people with a good tip for special care or effort. I imagine tipping began as a reward for (or motivator to) providing special care or service. I think in the past, more so than today, this was effective in encouraging better service. Unfortunately, I think employers over the years have seen and taken an opportunity to lower their costs by lowering or (holding low) base wages and making tips be a part (and sometimes the greatest part) of an employee's wages. So now these employees often look at tips as YOUR part of their rightful wages.

Personally, I find it interesting that it is expected that we tip Bell or Valet services, when it is not expected that we tip the Activity CMs, Lifeguards, or Check-In CMs. I have a tendancy to watch and evaluate lifeguards and Activity CMs, and have on many occasions gone up to one and said "I have been watching you do your job and I want you to know I think you do your job especially well" and ask them for their name so I can pass my feelings on to management. I am sure if I offered them $5 for doing a good job I would get a "thanks, but no thanks". The same with Check-In CMs. Many times I have been greatly relieved at a problem being fixed because the CM made an extra effort to fix it. I think if I were to hold out $5 to one of these CMs I would probably get the look from one who has just been insulted.

I rarely ever use Bell or Valet services, but I personally would prefer to pay higher MFs to have all employees at DVCs say "no thanks... they take care of me here, I am part of the family". Unrealistic? Maybe so.

 

[bicker]

You've really presented a $64K question. I truly enjoy tipping people with a good tip for special care or effort. I imagine tipping began as a reward for (or motivator to) providing special care or service.

This is a common error, often attributed to people mistakenly thinking that the word "tip" came from "to insure [sic] promptness". In reality, there are a couple of possibilities for the derivation of the word "tip", but that isn't either of them! One possible source of the word is from Old English, where it meant "to pass from one to another". Another possible source is more ancient, having to do with "tipping" the scales in favor of the customer -- having the customer able to determine precisely how much the service is worth surely does that.

And that's the real foundation for gratuities in today's society, in the Americas, the Middle East, and Africa. Service is provided with the expectation that customers will pay for a substantial portion of the cost of service through the gratuity. While the amount of the gratuity is up to the discretion of the customer (within reason), the obligation to provide the gratuity is not up to the customer's discretion.

Lots of people would like to change that, but for now, that's the way it is, in these three major portions of the world.

Very Well Said. It seems all too often that TIPS have ceased being effective for their original purpose and are now simply presumed and expected fees, kinda like sales tax.

Again, the "original purpose" of tips was indeed, "presumed and expected fees".

 

[DisDaydreamer]

EDIT: deleted.

 

[disney junky]

Some positions are tipped positions and some aren't. Wait staff are excluded from minimum wage laws. Around here the wage is $2.85 an hour for waiters and waitresses. Some nights they do well, and other nights they get stiffed. But they depend on your tips for their income. I suppose valet parking is a similar position.

I expect to tip if I use their services. I have the option not to use them. If I don't want the convenience of bell service or valet parking, I won't use it. These are people who are trying to make a living.

I do believe somewhere Disney has posted what positions are tipped and what aren't.

On a cruise, your tips are all the people get monetarily. They get room and board and then work their tails off for an entire week for the 3 dollars per person per day.

http://www.magictrips.com/plan/tipping.shtml

 

[DisneyKidds]

I'm not sure that your assumption is correct based on the experiences I have had. In addition, with respect to bag storage, the person who is perhaps most responsible for assuring that your bags are well-stored and secure is the person who picks them up or takes them from you. In my experience, many of the bell people in hotels do not rotate a lot of the duties, either. The larger the hotel, the more likely this is to be the case in my experience. They have specialists.

Perhaps, but my very specific WDW experiences don't necessarily bear this out to be true, either. Sure, time of day and circumstances vary and dictate what happens, but more often than not the guy who brings a cart to my car and unloads the bags just wheels the cart over behind the bell stand. There it sits until things slow, when someone else is just as likely to wheel it into the storage area than the first guy who touched the bags. I'm sure someone else is responsible for making sure that area is secured. So it isn't like that first person is the only person who handles my bags until somone is called upon to deliver them to my room. So what makes the first guy who touched my bags more worthy of a tip than the second, or the third?

I tip the bellman who brings my bags to the room. He has the most contact with them. He has to carry them the furthest and place them in my room. He spends the most time talking to us, asking us if we have any questions, and generally being helpful.

I agree, it would make sense that all bell services personnel get equal opportunity to greet cars and unload bags, often sans tip, and deliver bags and get the big bucks. If not, there is obviously a pecking order and we all have to work our way up, no?

All that said, if that first guy goes out of his way to be welcoming and helpful he'll get a few bucks.....and that's the point. Tip for service, not just because you are there.

 

[dumbo71]

Perhaps, but my very specific WDW experiences don't necessarily bear this out to be true, either. Sure, time of day and circumstances vary and dictate what happens, but more often than not the guy who brings a cart to my car and unloads the bags just wheels the cart over behind the bell stand. There it sits until things slow, when someone else is just as likely to wheel it into the storage area than the first guy who touched the bags. I'm sure someone else is responsible for making sure that area is secured. So it isn't like that first person is the only person who handles my bags until somone is called upon to deliver them to my room. So what makes the first guy who touched my bags more worthy of a tip than the second, or the third?

I tip the bellman who brings my bags to the room. He has the most contact with them. He has to carry them the furthest and place them in my room. He spends the most time talking to us, asking us if we have any questions, and generally being helpful.

I agree, it would make sense that all bell services personnel get equal opportunity to greet cars and unload bags, often sans tip, and deliver bags and get the big bucks. If not, there is obviously a pecking order and we all have to work our way up, no?

All that said, if that first guy goes out of his way to be welcoming and helpful he'll get a few bucks.....and that's the point. Tip for service, not just because you are there.

Disneykidds,

Please start posting more here on these boards. This is one great post.

Thank you for the read.

Also thank you to Bicker for the informative post.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

This is a common error, often attributed to people mistakenly thinking that the word "tip" came from "to insure [sic] promptness". In reality, there are a couple of possibilities for the derivation of the word "tip", but that isn't either of them! One possible source of the word is from Old English, where it meant "to pass from one to another". Another possible source is more ancient, having to do with "tipping" the scales in favor of the customer -- having the customer able to determine precisely how much the service is worth surely does that.

And that's the real foundation for gratuities in today's society, in the Americas, the Middle East, and Africa. Service is provided with the expectation that customers will pay for a substantial portion of the cost of service through the gratuity. While the amount of the gratuity is up to the discretion of the customer (within reason), the obligation to provide the gratuity is not up to the customer's discretion.

Me thinks you spend too much time researching on Wikipedia. The origin of the "tip" may have been originated 500 or 1000 years ago, but now, in current times the average person thinks they are rewarding excellent service. It doesn't matter the origin, but rather the current day reason. Most people want to think today they are rewarding special efforts. So... let's look at a different way to approach the whole service thing. With Disney... everything is hoped to be perfect. So I would like to see EVERYONE... all personnel, brought into the Disney family, not needing any supplements (or total support) from DVC members, having a sense of being in the family, and being taken care of like all the others. Then we would have no concerns about who is this person... do I have to pay for their well being... how much do I give them. As I said before I would prefere to pay greater MFs than to be served by people that rely on gratuities. People that rely solely on gratuities are needy and act as
such. I want all DVC personnel to be taken care of and not feel the need to pressure any DVC member for a tip (regardless of whatever tip ever meant). As Members, as owners, let's treat these people like lifeguards, activity CMs, or Check-In CMs.. let's make all DVC CMs a part of the family, and let's get rid of the pay by tip routine. Let's be different.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisDaydreamer
You've really presented a $64K question. I truly enjoy tipping people with a good tip for special care or effort. I imagine tipping began as a reward for (or motivator to) providing special care or service.

This is a common error, often attributed to people mistakenly thinking that the word "tip" came from "to insure [sic] promptness". In reality, there are a couple of possibilities for the derivation of the word "tip", but that isn't either of them! One possible source of the word is from Old English, where it meant "to pass from one to another". Another possible source is more ancient, having to do with "tipping" the scales in favor of the customer -- having the customer able to determine precisely how much the service is worth surely does that.

And that's the real foundation for gratuities in today's society, in the Americas, the Middle East, and Africa. Service is provided with the expectation that customers will pay for a substantial portion of the cost of service through the gratuity. While the amount of the gratuity is up to the discretion of the customer (within reason), the obligation to provide the gratuity is not up to the customer's discretion.

Lots of people would like to change that, but for now, that's the way it is, in these three major portions of the world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnman44
Very Well Said. It seems all too often that TIPS have ceased being effective for their original purpose and are now simply presumed and expected fees, kinda like sales tax.

Again, the "original purpose" of tips was indeed, "presumed and expected fees".
__________________




Isn't Wikipedia great! I think you missed my point though.

 

[bicker]

Some positions are tipped positions and some aren't.

Yes.

• Valet, bellstaff and restaurant servers are tipped personnel, and gratuities are expected. These folks generally are exempt from minimum wage laws, based on that expectation.

• Housekeepers, front-desk clerks, engineers, etc. (basically everyone else at the hotel), are all non-tipped personnel. These folks are compensated based on not getting gratuities.

 

[bicker]

I tip the bellman who brings my bags to the room. He has the most contact with them. He has to carry them the furthest and place them in my room. He spends the most time talking to us, asking us if we have any questions, and generally being helpful.

Absolutely, and that bell staff person is the one responsible for completing the service to you successfully. Everything that happens before is a product of hotel operations, and so the hotel is responsible for ensuring that operations are structured fairly for all its staff. The expectation for the patron to provide a gratuity is at the end of the service, whether it be a valet park-my-car situation (tip when you retrieve your car) or a bell staff get-my-bags-to-my-room situation (tip when you receive your luggage). Again, the only exception I can think of is when you arrive before check-in time, and you NEED an additional service: putting your luggage into safe storage.