Remodeling: Counter Tops?

[jonestavern]

Let's hear from all you remodeling survivors!

I have convinced DH to do an interim kitchen redo while we save money for an addition, which I am HOPING to be able to afford in 2010.

We have an undermount sink (cast iron). Trouble is I am trying to go cheapo on the counters & DH is not into Formica. Okay, how about tile?
That's fine with both of us, but an undermount sink will need a especially made ($$) rim.
Now we are going around & around.

This is his idea for installing an undermount sink & still being able to use tile without sending away for the fabricated collar:
1. Put down plywood counter base
2. lay down tile board
3. cut hole for sink and drop it in, from the top
4. butt the tile up to the sink
DH "sink rim & tile are within reason the same thickness"

So the undermount sink will actually not be undermounted

His 'within reason' is what's bothering me!

Anyone here have experience forming their own cement counters?
I am detail oriented and DH has passable handyman skills. It would be me doing the actual pouring and leveling, DH making the forms.

Yikes! Apparently today we are yelling at each other, again, over the kitchen

Jean

 

[Cindyluwho]

Exactly how thick are the tiles and how thick is the rim of the sink?

 

[JR6ooo4]

You can easily add spacers to raise the sink to the tile level. If you need to go down with the sink to the tile level then you can use a router to cut a notch all the way around the sink hole to lower the sink.

The question is how much flange overlap is needed or available to support a (assumed) very heavy cast iron sink? If the plywood flexes with the weight of the sink and the additional weight when the sink is filled with water then the tile or the grout joints might crack

Mikeeee

 

[The Mystery Machine]

If you are doing a redo, I would not go cheap on the counters.
Go expensive and do the job right. If you have to repair and do it over, you will be spending double.

 

[jonestavern]

Exactly how thick are the tiles and how thick is the rim of the sink?

We haven't bought tiles yet. We're heading down to the home improvement stores to buy one to check out if this will even work

You can easily add spacers to raise the sink to the tile level. If you need to go down with the sink to the tile level then you can use a router to cut a notch all the way around the sink hole to lower the sink.

The question is how much flange overlap is needed or available to support a (assumed) very heavy cast iron sink? If the plywood flexes with the weight of the sink and the additional weight when the sink is filled with water then the tile or the grout joints might crack

Mikeeee

I have seen on a TV show where they've reinforced the plywood from under the sink base cabinet. I think this may be wise any way we decide on because the cabinets are not exactly high end & seem to be fairly enemic

Wow! this is really good food for thought!
Thanks a bunch!

 

[rcraw45425]

We did tile on our counters because we have so much square footage that we would nave spent close to 10 K on granite alone (no backsplash). Our sink is an Elkay top mount so no problem there. We did come back and granite just the island (bought a scrap for < $500, wound up spending about $2K by the time it was cut, polished and installed so nothing is a bargain there). We actually laid the tile over the existing formica (yes we are redneck)

 

[jonestavern]

If you are doing a redo, I would not go cheap on the counters.
Go expensive and do the job right. If you have to repair and do it over, you will be spending double.

This is an interim redo as our kitchen had not been remodeled since 1942.
I was working in a kitchen without counterspace (I used an old table) and no cabinets at all.
Yes, that's right NO cabinets, NO counterspace.
And I love to cook.
All our dishes & foodstuffs are on three 6' tables in the formal dining room.

We live in a 225+ year old former tavern (Jones Tavern) so when the final kitchen is done it will be an addition so as not to harm the origianl colonial kitchen (Yes, it has a large cooking fireplace complete with beehive oven)
The final kitchen will be very nice indeed w/ honed soapstone counters, gas cook top, double ovens, glassed front fridge and pantry.

But I don't need to tell you how impossible it is to cook w/o counterspace, pulled up floorboards, one electrical outlet & running back and forth to the formal dining room to fetch.

It's easier to cook on the hearth! And that is no exaggeration!

Oh, central chimney repair central hearth fireplace (in these houses it also is a foundation support):$25,000.

but it is done and paid for

 

[NMiller07]

Hi, hope you don't mind one more opinion. My husband and I own a kitchen & bath company in the Atlanta area. We do cabinets as well as countertops. If you are going to do a complete remodel in 2010 and don't want to spend a ton of money I really would do laminate. Find a local top maker in your area. There are some colors that look very close to granite that are no where near as expensive(check out Formica Brand, butterum and jamocha granite are two beautiful colors) . Tile counters can be costly as well. Plus you have to maintain the seal on the counters so they don't become porous (in grout areas) usually once a year. Depending on where you live you can probably find a top maker that is reasonably priced. If the builder/ real estate market is anything like it is in the Atlanta market, these little companies are practically giving work away just to keep their employees busy and keep their heads above water.

 

[jonestavern]

Hi, hope you don't mind one more opinion. My husband and I own a kitchen & bath company in the Atlanta area. We do cabinets as well as countertops. If you are going to do a complete remodel in 2010 and don't want to spend a ton of money I really would do laminate. Find a local top maker in your area. There are some colors that look very close to granite that are no where near as expensive(check out Formica Brand, butterum and jamocha granite are two beautiful colors) . Tile counters can be costly as well. Plus you have to maintain the seal on the counters so they don't become porous (in grout areas) usually once a year. Depending on where you live you can probably find a top maker that is reasonably priced. If the builder/ real estate market is anything like it is in the Atlanta market, these little companies are practically giving work away just to keep their employees busy and keep their heads above water.

Thanks for replying!
The more heads together the better.
I'm gonna start calling now!

Things are, generally, much more expensive up here than in the south.
This is compounded by our living out in the sticks!
No delivery out here and many contractors will just not even consider coming out this way~
Well, I guess if we sweetened the pot~

I don't mind maintaining the grout. And both DH and I have done tiling before (a bathroom) and it came out very nice.

Odd fact:
I come from a family that loves to clean grout.
Really, my late Mom and now DSis can clean grout as well as do grouting very well.
I admit I do have the touch of doing grouting, too, but I am not into the Zen of it like DSis!

 

[Cindyluwho]

We now have 1/8" copper counters, laid right on top of the formica. We had them measured and then the sheet metal place made them so we could just lay them right on top of the old counter. It is an L shape, so it was two pieces, it goes over the countertops and then hangs over about 2 1/2". Total cost $1700 with tax. I think copper has doubled in the last 5 years but I don't know how much of the total cost was the actual copper. I love them, they're absolutely stunning, but shining them is a pain. I'm supposed to let them patina but I like them shiny, like a new penny!

 

[Disney Doll]

I would agree that if this is an interim redo, I'd tell DH to bite the bullet and go with formica for a couple of years, which can be worked much easier with an undermount sink. You're talking about a kitchen redo in 2010...that's 2 years away.

Truthfully, what you are proposing with the tile, spacers, possibilities of weight flexion because of cabinet strength etc. sounds like it is going to create more problems than it solves, and that is before you get to tile counter maintenance when there is grout to consider. I have known folks who had (HAD being the operative word there!) tile countertops. They are maintenance nightmares and I don't care how much you like to clean grout!

 

[Melrosgirl]

I do not recommend tile countertops for a remodel. If you ever go to sell, it's a pain for someone to rip them out (and tile countertops are out of style). I think a nice laminate would be better than tile.

 

[maelstrom]

We have an undermount sink and a Silestone countertop.