Registered emotional support dog allowed?

[livndisney]

I haven't stopped writing Australia I doubt anyone could miss that piece of information. I even mentioned it in that same post

The Op asked if emotional animals were allowed in WDW. To my knowledge WDW is not in Australia. You were sharing your opinion on ESA. Since I doubt people actually looking for info on the subject are going to read the whole thread, I simply clarified.

Perhaps you should read what I bolded-it could quite easily be misunderstood.

 

[Magpie]

Is there any reason that one person could need two service dogs at once? Recently in Epcot, I saw one woman with two border collies and I couldn't for the life of me come up with a reason why someone would need two service dogs, for one person.

I understand the concept behind ESA etc, and find that service animals in general are a wonderful thing, however, I've noticed more and more "unruly" service dogs who seem to be ruining things for those who really need them.

Maybe she was in the park with a friend, who also has a service dog, and was looking after her friend's dog for a minute. Or maybe one of her dogs was in training.

We have a seeing eye dog school near us, so I often see people out with multiple dogs. They don't always wear vests, especially if they're still in their foster homes (where the foster family has a responsibility to expose them to as many different environments as possible, and complete some early basic training).

The most "unruly" service dog I ever met was a straight up official seeing eye dog. It wasn't the dog's fault. It was bad handling by the owner (I saw him drag the dog across a street against a red light, despite the poor animal trying his best to stop!). According to the local rumour mill the owner had already ruined another dog and had been told that the association wouldn't be providing him with any more.

After being dragged across the street, his dog snapped at my dog, who was sitting on my lap not behaving aggressively in any way. When I said something to the owner, he got cranky with me.

I'll take a well-behaved, "untrained", emotional support dog, over that official seeing eye dog and his idiot owner any day!

 

[livndisney]

You have to have laws it seems, due to the negative opinions of some others. That is very evident in this thread.

Perhaps it is more "we have to have laws due to the abuse/misuse of some people". My understanding is the recent law change came due to abuse. The lines were too gray and need to be clarified for everyone.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

The Op asked if emotional animals were allowed in WDW. To my knowledge WDW is not in Australia. You were sharing your opinion on ESA. Since I doubt people actually looking for info on the subject are going to read the whole thread, I simply clarified.

Perhaps you should read what I bolded-it could quite easily be misunderstood.

No I understood. Not an issue with clarification, I just wasn't sure how people could miss my mention of Australia in the post. All good

 

[bedogged]

Perhaps it is more "we have to have laws due to the abuse/misuse of some people". My understanding is the recent law change came due to abuse. The lines were too gray and need to be clarified for everyone.

What "recent law change" are you referring to?

 

[livndisney]

What "recent law change" are you referring to?

Sorry-the clarification as to what is considered a service animal.

quick link-http://servicedogcentral.org/content/changes
from the link-

Key changes include the following:
1. Only dogs will be recognized as service animals.
2. Service animals are required to be leashed or harnessed except when performing work or tasks where such tethering would interfere with the dog's ability to perform.
3. Service animals are exempt from breed bans as well as size and weight limitations.
4. Though not considered service animals, businesses are generally required to accommodate the use of miniature horses under specific conditions.

Until the effective date, existing service animals of all species will continue to be covered under the ADA regulations.

Existing policies that were clarified or formalized include the following:
1. Dogs whose sole function is “the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship” are not considered service dogs under the ADA.
2. The use of service dogs for psychiatric and neurological disabilities is explicitly protected under the ADA.
3. “The crime deterrent effects of an animal's presence” do not qualify that animal as a service animal and “an animal individually trained to provide aggressive protection, such as an attack dog, is not appropriately considered a service animal.”

 

[JanaDee]

You have to have laws it seems, due to the negative opinions of some others. That is very evident in this thread.

In this specific instance, we have to have laws so people don't think they have the right to bring their pet anywhere they want to.

Legitimate service animals are allowed pretty much everywhere. Pets aren't, for good reason.

 

[kamik86]

Maybe she was in the park with a friend, who also has a service dog, and was looking after her friend's dog for a minute. Or maybe one of her dogs was in training.

We have a seeing eye dog school near us, so I often see people out with multiple dogs. They don't always wear vests, especially if they're still in their foster homes (where the foster family has a responsibility to expose them to as many different environments as possible, and complete some early basic training).

The most "unruly" service dog I ever met was a straight up official seeing eye dog. It wasn't the dog's fault. It was bad handling by the owner (I saw him drag the dog across a street against a red light, despite the poor animal trying his best to stop!). According to the local rumour mill the owner had already ruined another dog and had been told that the association wouldn't be providing him with any more.

After being dragged across the street, his dog snapped at my dog, who was sitting on my lap not behaving aggressively in any way. When I said something to the owner, he got cranky with me.

I'll take a well-behaved, "untrained", emotional support dog, over that official seeing eye dog and his idiot owner any day!

I remember seeing a seeing eye dog (or some other support dog not sure) in training once. He hadn't quite gotten the hang of not going up to check you others that got near him yet... so hard not to pet him (he was the cutest little lab puppy)! He had a vest though so everyone knew he was in training.

The only problem I have with how emontional support dogs work is that it seems there needs to be more oversight in some way. Very similar to the GAC being removed becasue of abuse I could see similar issues with the dogs becasue it does seem many are abusing it or in some other way "ruining" the dogs like your story above.

I'm just trying to think about what would happen if say an emotional support dog (really one or someone that lied) bit a child in a store. I would assume the owner is still responsible for their dog like any other dog but would the store also be liable?

 

[bedogged]

Sorry-the clarification as to what is considered a service animal.

quick link-http://servicedogcentral.org/content/changes
from the link-

Key changes include the following:
1. Only dogs will be recognized as service animals.
2. Service animals are required to be leashed or harnessed except when performing work or tasks where such tethering would interfere with the dog's ability to perform.
3. Service animals are exempt from breed bans as well as size and weight limitations.
4. Though not considered service animals, businesses are generally required to accommodate the use of miniature horses under specific conditions.

Until the effective date, existing service animals of all species will continue to be covered under the ADA regulations.

Existing policies that were clarified or formalized include the following:
1. Dogs whose sole function is “the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship” are not considered service dogs under the ADA.
2. The use of service dogs for psychiatric and neurological disabilities is explicitly protected under the ADA.
3. “The crime deterrent effects of an animal's presence” do not qualify that animal as a service animal and “an animal individually trained to provide aggressive protection, such as an attack dog, is not appropriately considered a service animal.”

I am still not following you. Which law change do you feel is " due to abuse?"

 

[bedogged]

I remember seeing a seeing eye dog (or some other support dog not sure) in training once. He hadn't quite gotten the hang of not going up to check you others that got near him yet... so hard not to pet him (he was the cutest little lab puppy)! He had a vest though so everyone knew he was in training.

The only problem I have with how emontional support dogs work is that it seems there needs to be more oversight in some way. Very similar to the GAC being removed becasue of abuse I could see similar issues with the dogs becasue it does seem many are abusing it or in some other way "ruining" the dogs like your story above.

I'm just trying to think about what would happen if say an emotional support dog (really one or someone that lied) bit a child in a store. I would assume the owner is still responsible for their dog like any other dog but would the store also be liable?

The GAC was only a program/policy that Disney implemented to assist the disabled. We are discussing FEDERAL LAW in regard to Service Dogs and ESAs. I hope you can see the difference. Disney cannot require more documentation than what the law requires.

 

[Cyrano]

Folks time to count to ten and relax.
Your support is require before the thread needs to be locked.

 

[kamik86]

The GAC was only a program/policy that Disney implemented to assist the disabled. We are discussing FEDERAL LAW in regard to Service Dogs and ESAs. I hope you can see the difference. Disney cannot require more documentation than what the law requires.

No I see the difference.. but how many times have laws been changed because a large group (companies or individuals) felt there was too much abuse or too many loopholes.

If stores start to have issues with support or service dogs driving out customers knocking over displays or damaging product, making messes etc because untrained pets are being brought it by people claiming they are support dogs I could see a law changing that would have a huge impact on those that really need these animals.

 

[Magpie]

I am still not following you. Which law change do you feel is " due to abuse?"

Well, I'd guess some folks were arguing that their big attack dogs were service animals, in that they provided a "crime deterrence" service.

Also, some folks without any diagnosed disabilities were probably claiming they required their dogs for emotional support, and insisting they be treated like service dogs.

I'm glad to see that "2. The use of service dogs for psychiatric and neurological disabilities is explicitly protected under the ADA."

I suspect a lot of what people are referring to as Emotional Support Dogs are actually service dogs, under this definition. Since you have to get a doctor's "prescription" to have an Emotional Support Dog anyway, and as such, you already have a documented disability.

So, problem solved. If the dog in the original post is registered and the owner is under a doctor's care, then it's likely a service dog, even if it provides emotional support. And as such, can be allowed in the parks.

Not that Disney requires any proof of disability, and nor should they, because that would open a whole other can o'worms.

 

[Vidia2]

No I see the difference.. but how many times have laws been changed because a large group (companies or individuals) felt there was too much abuse or too many loopholes. If stores start to have issues with support or service dogs driving out customers knocking over displays or damaging product, making messes etc because untrained pets are being brought it by people claiming they are support dogs I could see a law changing that would have a huge impact on those that really need these animals.

The ADA is designed to protect the rights of those with disabilities. It is not designed to protect the public from unruly dogs or anything else.

 

[KimmiP]

Ok to be honest in the many times I have been I haven't seen any (maybe one or two???) dogs in the park. There maybe more now since we moved up north and don't go the 3-4 times per year we used to.

However after reading this thread I do have two odd questions....

1. Is there a dedicated location for service/support animal to "take care of business"? They can't possibly be in the park for hours without food, water or relief. And on that note, if the number of dogs are increasing wouldn't that then provide issues in that department?

2. How do support dogs who may not been as stringently trained as service dogs deal with extremely crowded parks? I would be irritated myself so I can't even imagine the anxiety of an animal who doesn't understand why all these people are in close proximity and its not like the dog or throngs of people can avoid each other.

Lol, just a glimpse to the way my mind works lol.

 

[bedogged]

Sorry-the clarification as to what is considered a service animal.

quick link-http://servicedogcentral.org/content/changes
from the link-

Key changes include the following:
1. Only dogs will be recognized as service animals.
2. Service animals are required to be leashed or harnessed except when performing work or tasks where such tethering would interfere with the dog's ability to perform.
3. Service animals are exempt from breed bans as well as size and weight limitations.
4. Though not considered service animals, businesses are generally required to accommodate the use of miniature horses under specific conditions.

Until the effective date, existing service animals of all species will continue to be covered under the ADA regulations.

Existing policies that were clarified or formalized include the following:
1. Dogs whose sole function is “the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship” are not considered service dogs under the ADA.
2. The use of service dogs for psychiatric and neurological disabilities is explicitly protected under the ADA.
3. “The crime deterrent effects of an animal's presence” do not qualify that animal as a service animal and “an animal individually trained to provide aggressive protection, such as an attack dog, is not appropriately considered a service animal.”

A few years ago, here in Denver, we had a ban on Pitbulls. A lot of people said that their dogs were service dogs. There was some controversy regarding whether a Pitbull could be a service dog. I find it interesting that number three addresses that issue. To me, the changes seem more liberal than restrictive.

 

[bedogged]

Ok to be honest in the many times I have been I haven't seen any (maybe one or two???) dogs in the park. There maybe more now since we moved up north and don't go the 3-4 times per year we used to.

However after reading this thread I do have two odd questions....

1. Is there a dedicated location for service/support animal to "take care of business"? They can't possibly be in the park for hours without food, water or relief. And on that note, if the number of dogs are increasing wouldn't that then provide issues in that department?

2. How do support dogs who may not been as stringently trained as service dogs deal with extremely crowded parks? I would be irritated myself so I can't even imagine the anxiety of an animal who doesn't understand why all these people are in close proximity and its not like the dog or throngs of people can avoid each other.

Lol, just a glimpse to the way my mind works lol.

Yes, there are dedicated locations.

Most support dogs have been taken a lot of different places with large numbers of people. Of course, it would vary with each individual dog, but I think that most ESAs are very well socialized.

 

[bedogged]

Someone with more expertise please correct me if I get this wrong. I thought that because the cost of a service dog could be so prohibitive that there is a provision within the law that allows a disabled person to train their own dog? If this is the case, it could account for the difference in training levels people report seeing?

 

[Laketravis]

Folks time to count to ten and relax.
Your support is require before the thread needs to be locked.

Cyrano, just curious but would the DisAbilities Community Forum be a more appropriate location for this thread?

 

[Magpie]

2. How do support dogs who may not been as stringently trained as service dogs deal with extremely crowded parks? I would be irritated myself so I can't even imagine the anxiety of an animal who doesn't understand why all these people are in close proximity and its not like the dog or throngs of people can avoid each other.

Lol, just a glimpse to the way my mind works lol.

Since someone else mentioned already that there are break areas for dogs, I'll just address the anxiety issue.

My dog is not a service dog of any description. I will never take her anywhere dogs aren't allowed (and Disney is right out!). But I have brought her to crowded events and street festivals where dogs are allowed.

Every dog is different, and one would hope a responsible owner would not put their dog in a situation that would make it anxious. Or where it might behave badly.

In my dog's case, when it gets very loud and crowded, she simply sticks close to my ankles and pants a bit. If I'm standing still, she'll position herself between my feet. If I think there's a danger of her getting stepped on, I will pick her up. But she's about 20lbs, so I prefer not to have to carry her unless it's absolutely necessary. She does not bark, and she does not "make messes", except when directed to do so on grass or snow.

She's generally very friendly with people who speak to her, licking them and rubbing her body on their ankles. She ignores people who ignore her. In the rare event someone is trying to pet her and she's not interested, she'll look away and turn her back on them. She's never, in her entire life, snapped at a person. Not even when provoked. I once saw a toddler pull her ear, hurting her, and my dog gave a high pitched yelp, then turned and licked the child's hand (yes, the parent and I were both watching closely - the child was simply fast and unpredictable).

All of which is to say, IF my dog was an Emotional Support Dog, and IF I brought her to Disney World, I'm sure she would have no difficulty with the crowds and I expect she would behave just as well she always does.