Refuse to give Disney your Finger-print?

[WillCAD]

So we should all be rebels? Disney World has the right to protect their assets, its called abiding by the rules.

I never said break the rules. I never advocated breaking the rules or getting around them. I am, in point of fact, one of those people who is constantly posting my irritation at people who seem the think the rules don't apply to them. What I do advocate is questioning the rules, getting the information you need to think for yourself and make up your own mind. And if, in the end, you don't agree with the rules, then you use the legitimate ways in place in our society to change the rules; or in this case, you simply obey the rules by showing ID instead of giving a finger scan.

So Disney has no rights then? As consumers, we cant use the constitution or the "customer is always right" clause to get whatever we want. What if the OP was bypassing the scan to sell her tickets on eBay in direct violation of Disney, would you still have this attitude?

Where did I ever say or imply that? Disney has a perfect right as a corporation to protect its assets from fraud and theft, so long as they abide by the law. They have a perfect right to use the finger scan to that end; I have never stated or implied otherwise. But if You refer back to my post on page 6, you will see my legitimate concerns spelled out clearly as to why I dislike the finger scan. You will also read that, as much as I dislike the finger scan, I use it anyway.

And by the way, no, I will never defend anybody who sells tickets on eBay in clear violation of Disney policy. I am in favor of eBay actually banning such sales the way they ban other illegal items.

This isnt the 1970's, people are smarter and more computer savvy then ever. Disney is protecting themselves from scalping which happens to be illegal. People from overseas come to Disney all the time then sell their leftover tickets on the market, which is costing you and all of us more money because Disney is losing on ticket sales so they have to up the prices. Maybe you will realize why some people who have to save pennies to go to Disney will be angry when someone will not follow rules that cost people who do money.

I AM one of those people who saves pennies for my WDW trips - literally - every year, and the high cost of park passes hurts my trip budget, so I certainly do understand what Disney is doing and why. I dislike the specific manner in which they are protecting themselves from such fraud, but I agree with their right to do it.

Please tell me what someone can do with two curves of your finger? What you are saying is if I look at you then I can steal your identity?

Again, I spelled that all out very clearly in my post at the top of page 6. Read it and get back to me.

Then don't shop with your credit card, wear a bag over your face and lock your doors. Honestly, the conspiracy theroies have to stop. This is a measure that Disney has to take to protect themselves from people robbing them. Your elitist attitude is demonstrating that Disney has no rights because they are a big business.

That's a ridiculous exaggeration of my position. I am not naive enough to think that this issue is limited to "safe" or "not safe". Safety is entirely relative; I believe in taking reasonable, prudent precautions with my personal info to prevent identity theft and other crimes. One of those precautions is limiting the amount of such info that you share with the world. No, you cannot completely protect yourself, nor am I stupid enough to try, but freely handing over any and all personal info to any company, any time, is the other extreme, and I won't go there, either.

Where in all this did you ever get the impression that I think Disney has no rights? And where did you ever get the impression that I am in any way elitist? That's an unwarranted personal attack.

Bag checks are mandatory because of 9/11. Contrary to what CNN tells you, we are always in immediate danger and I applaud theme parks and sports venues for bag checks. I like to feel safe when im on vacation.

Really? I guess we better wear bags over our faces, stay home, and lock the doors.

We may be in constant danger in a theoretical sense, but we are certainly not "always in immediate danger." What makes you think that? Have you seen many terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11? I haven't.

Not trying to flame your post, but your suggesting everyone rebel against rules like we live in the mid 1970's. It's important for us to respect Disney's rules because A) their prices will inflate if more and more people transfer their tickets and B) because we chose to go to Disney. If I went to your house and didnt take off my shoes even if you asked because it impeded against my rights as an American, what would you do? Im sure you would ask me to leave. So why is it wrong if Disney does the same thing to you?

I most certainly am NOT suggesting that everyone rebel against the rules. I am suggesting that we stand up for our rights. I am suggesting that we think for ourselves and not blindly accept rules that infringe on our rights without first getting proof that those rules A) Work, and B) Are worth the rights we give up for them. If they are not, then we need to express concern to those who make the rules and try to get the rules changed.

How about if I asked you to change into a paper suit every time you visited my house to avoid spreading allergens? Would you think that an unreasonable over-reaction and refuse? If you did, I would have a perfect right to ask you to leave. And you would have a perfect right to not come to my house any more - just as Disney has a right to ask us to use the finger scan, and we have the right to refuse and go someplace else on vacation.

I'm not trying to flame you, either, but your suggestion that I am some sort of elitist or anarchist rebel is a gross exaggeration of every point I have made.

 

[disneybabii]

well i do respect your concern and i can see why you would want to refuse.
but, there really is no danger here.
there only is a slight risk of being arrested if you have had a criminal record.
but i doubt you have a criminal record.
but again,
why would disney need your fingerprint??
but just think, by now youve probably given them youre phone #, adress, credit card info, and everything else.

 

[captinhookedondisney]

I don't mind giving disney a digital picture to my fingerprints. I think it inshured they get that person and no one else. I feel it was a major step in security. So they know exactly is in the parks just in case of an emergency.

 

[marivaid]

So they know exactly is in the parks just in case of an emergency.

How ? You don't have to put your card in to get out so they don't know if you've left the park or not.

 

[fla4fun]

It's interesting that at the same time this debate has been going on, there are two threads about how to get around the ticket sharing rules, which of course is why the finger scans were implemented in the first place. In the one case, if the OP's brother had simply refused to do the finger scan, would there be a problem with her son using the remaining days on the ticket? No. Is it the right thing to do? No. Transferring tickets is not allowed (in fact, selling partially used tickets is against the law and could land you in jail!).

Does anyone have an idea of another way Disney could secure their tickets against tranferrence, and at the same time, not cause anyone to feel uncomfortable that their personal info may be compromised? It would need to be something quick and easy. I'm afraid I'm stumped!

 

[Se7en's Travels]

I personally dont think it even works in that way to discern one person from the other. I think its just a mental deterrent to keep people who are thinking about trading cards and passing on discounts from doing it. I think its like security cameras in a store just there to keep people on the straight and narrow. I mean if i thought there was a shot of me getting caught at the gate with someones ticket and being ejected in front of everybody. Like the guy getting kicked off of the island on survivor. I wouldnt dare out of fear of public shame. Just one mans opinion, i think the whole thing is for show.

 

[Lisa Hale]

How ? You don't have to put your card in to get out so they don't know if you've left the park or not.

SHHHH!!!!! That's all Disney World needs is another place to start a line! Could you just imagine...standing in line to leave, searching bags, it could take even longer to leave than to get in depending on whether or not you purchased extra stuff. YIKES!!!

BTW, good point.

 

[Lisa Hale]

Does anyone have an idea of another way Disney could secure their tickets against tranferrence, and at the same time, not cause anyone to feel uncomfortable that their personal info may be compromised? It would need to be something quick and easy. I'm afraid I'm stumped!

Sure, the old photo passes they used to use worked, but it would be more expensive for everyone. Hmmm...I guess if someone had a twin, they could fake it, but otherwise, it did work.

 

[marivaid]

SHHHH!!!!! That's all Disney World needs is another place to start a line! Could you just imagine...standing in line to leave, searching bags, it could take even longer to leave than to get in depending on whether or not you purchased extra stuff. YIKES!!!

 

[2Princes2Princesses]

Disney has my name, address, phone number, email, and since I bought DVC, my social security number, bank account info, and credit card numbers.

So I really don't give a rats patootie about giving them my fingerprint. The FBI already has mine since I was thinking about taking a government job a while ago, and they have DH's fingerprints and DNA since he was in the Army and works for the goverment now.

Maybe I should be all indignant about big brother or something. But since I don't do anything that big brother would care about, it really doesn't incense me all that much. And anyone who wants to steal my identity would find they were much better off with their own.

Plus, if I lose my AP, I will be happy knowing if a jerk finds it and tries to use it, they won't be able to!

 

[LilGMom]

http://www.allearsnet.com/pl/fingerscan.htm

That gives some great info on the biometric finger scan. Everything from how long it is kept on file (purged 30 days after ticket expires or once the computer determines the ticket is all used up) to how a group of tickets purchased together will allow people in that group to use other group member's tickets (it tags the tickets as a group) and to what happens should you use someone else's ticket (the pass will be confiscated).

I personally found the article interesting and feel it can put some minds to rest that think Disney is keeping the info in an eternal database. Doing the finger scan is a personal choice, as is taking a bag into the parks, and I have no issues with either. I just ask that if you aren't doing the finger scan, or have a bag, please be prepared to show your id or have your bag ready for inspection.

I'm just repeating myself here because I think it fell on deaf ears.

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

The FBI already has mine since I was thinking about taking a government job a while ago,

Same here, I had a job that required a clearance in the past. Though not active anymore I suspect my prints are still on file with the FBI. So I guess the least of what I would be worried about would be Disney (though I'm not worried).

 

[ougrad86]

It is not your fingerprint, it is simply biometrics, which could not be used in any way to steal your identity. I had no problem with it, but my DH could not get his fingers to lay properly, so they just waved him through. My DS was a child, and did not have to do it.
If you drive in, go to the ticket counter, lay down cash for your ticket, and go through the gate they cannot even attach a name to the biometric reading. The bar code on the ticket just needs to match the scan taken the first time to prove it is the same person using the ticket. And like I said, if you don't place your fingers just right, they just hit the button and wave you on through. If it was so important to get that just right, I don't think they would have that attitude. I would be more worried about showing my ID in this case.
We also had to use the same system to enter Busch Gardens here in Virginia. The measurement cannot be used for anything. My DH is super-paranoid because of his line of work and he hears all the ins and out of identity theft. He found out what they were measuring with his tech guys, and had no problem about doing so (still never worked for him).
I think they wave you on through because they figure that the chance of the one person having a used ticket is kind of low, so they don't stress about it. But your fingerprint is not being recorded. You could wear latex gloves, the measurement would still be the same.
You have the right to refuse, but the biometric measurement at the gate is nothing to worry about.

 

[love2teach]

I don't mind at all, since I have nothing to hide!

 

[DepCor0311]

My humble opinion is that if something makes you uncomfortable don't do it. As long as it doesn't compromise the safety of the park, whatever. On the other side of the coin, Disney has a right to protect their assets (the parks) as they see fit...they are a private company, after all.

What I do find interesting about the whole debate is how we Americans think about ourselves as individuals. Some won't give up their personal information on the risk of being singled out and having their information used against them in some way. As much as we hate to admit it, and think that we can take steps to avoid it, we all have roughly the same chance of being victimized (by identity theft for example). It is just a fact of modern life in the world today. But, to think we will be singled out amongst the tens of millions of visitors to Disney parks is a little on the paranoid side...You have as good of a chance of winning your State Lottery...It could happen...but what are the chances....and there is nothing you can do as an individual to sway the chances....as much as we hate to think that we are powerless.

 

[stalkingmickey]

I am so tired of everyone saying they have nothing to hide, or disney already has all your info so it doesn't matter, or government has my prints already. This is not and was not the issue. The issue is theives getting into the sytem and matching the info to what disney has on file. I know you are going to say it will never happen. How do you know. the technology to breach companies systems are getting better and better.

I see from reading all these post that a lot of people go through life and never question why they are being asked for something. As my original post said I have dealt with having my identity stolen and it is not fun. It has taken over 5 years to fix everything. I still had to write letters to the mortage company so my DH and I can buy our house.

The recent TJX theft was recently shown how they stole millions of peoples info. From a wireless antena that was in one of the stores. The theives figured out how to tapp into the signal and intercept all info coming through the cash registers. We have no idea if and how someone may get this info from disney and then be able to use this to open a door to more personal info on disneys system.

If you aren't going to read all the post, then maybe you should comment at all. It frustrates me when people respond and they have no idea what has actually been posted.

Again I hope all these people who would hand over there first born if told to do so without question never have there identity stolen or you will be singing a whole different tune to the Op.

By the way disneyclan MV is so peaceful and nice off season. Granted if you go in the later fall or winter most things are closed, but it is so pretty in the winter with the snow. You really get a different feel for the island withou the millions of people there. Although I would not give up any summer day at south beach!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheDisneyClan]

What it boils down to is entitlement. For some reason you feel above the rules and even though this isn't an attempt to catch you of committing fraud, you object to them making you do something that is below your status and dignity.

I'm glad that you feel that you are above the rules that apply to the rest of us. Putting the CM in a position of deciding that the rules don't apply to you, risking their job because they have also been told to "let it go" instead of confronting an unreasonable guest, then why not do it.


Sorry but the "just cause I don't wanna" reason is not a good one, in my opinion.

Your above comments make absolutley no sense. Disney's rules clearly allow a person to opt out of the finger scan. What you are insisting is that rules be enforced that do not exisit. Its voluntary. That means any person at any time can say..."I dont wanna.." and that is the end of it.

The only sense of entitlement we feel is that we are entitled to follow Disney's policy of opting out.

 

[TheDisneyClan]

Thanks TheDisneyClan and WillCad. You've really given me something to think about. I really hate how Disney compiles personal information -- they do so because all of that info (kid's names, spending patterns, frequency of visits, etc.) is valuable information. The thought of my finger scan (whether it be a print or other info) being tied to all the rest of the personal info Disney has about me and my family, doesn't thrill me.

We have plenty of precedent for companies agreeing to turn all this information over to the gov't when asked (why shouldn't they -- what's in it for a company to refuse, it's not their info!). And, we have precedent for the gov't using information in ways not permitted by law and/or losing it. I live in NYC and lived through 9/11 (my office was a block from the site), so I don't fall for the "I'd do anything the gov't wants post 9-11" argument.

I'm seriously considering refusing the finger scan on our next visit. However, I have an annual pass and have done the finger scanner numerous times over several years, so it's probably an empty gesture at this point.

Well its never too late to assert your rights or stop doing something if you are completely comfortable. Disney says the finger scans are urged after 30-60 days. So if that is true and you stop now, there is no worry of some hacker accessing or stealing that information later. Just a thought.

 

[finnster77]

If you aren't going to read all the post, then maybe you should comment at all. It frustrates me when people respond and they have no idea what has actually been posted.

..........and it frustrates me when people impose their own anal posting rules on others. If a person wants to read the original post, then give their opinion, who are you to say they shouldn't?

 

[TheDisneyClan]

I think most people are bothered by the last statement that the OP gets into the Park ahead of the rest of use who are blindly following the WDW rules. Nobody like someone who isn't following the same rules as the rest of us to get ahead. I agree with your right to refuse the finger scan. It would seem that the fact that they still let you into the Park that it is not a security measure. I'm wondering if you refused the bag search if they would allow you in the Park? My bet is on no. I'm an AP holder so I've always followed this procedure hoping it would protect me from someone stealing my very expensive ticket. Perhaps I'm also more willing to let them take my fingerprint because as a nursing student I'm required to have a criminal records check done every year. I also had to have one done for my summer job working in a nursing home this year.

The bag searches are in fact voluntary. Your can opt out of the bag searches by simply not carrying anything with you into the park. So I have no problem with this. However, I do feel the bag searches are for show only. If you wanted to bring something harmful into park would you put in your bag which you know will be searched, or would you stuff in your pants, pockects, under your baggy clothes, etc.... Since they search bags without considering what guns, knives, small explosives people have stuffed in their shorts, they are essentially worthless.

Thats said, since you can opt out by simply coming to the parks bagless, have no objection. They do the searches simply to give the impression we are all safer. When I do carry a bag or backpack into the park I have no issue with it being searched since I made the conscience decision to bring the bag with me knowing full well it will be searched.