Reducing the Disney "Experience"

The Disney "Experience," the quality that separates it from all other theme parks around the world, is slowly eroding.

Alas, in order to save some bucks, Off Kilter and Mo' Rockin are gone from Epcot. Add to that roster of fine talent, the Spirit of America, which provided visitors from other nations a taste of American exceptionalism. Gone also from Epcot is Myuki, the incredibly talented "candy lady." And Push, the "talking garbage can," which provided so many magical moments to guests of all ages in Tomorrowland, is gone, too.

I don't think all these decisions are based on money.
Allegedly the Candy Lady left of her own free will, particularly as she was told she couldn't give finished candy to guests due to "hygiene reasons".
Off Kilter had been performing for 17 years, its time to switch things up! They have opened a new show.
I really didn't like Mo'Rockin', so again change might be good, maybe I will like the replacement more.

I think these acts at Epcot should change every 3-5 years to give variety to repeat visitors, for some to have not been changed in a very long time I think was the bad thing, it shows a lack of willingness to change and offer new experiances.
 
I'm waiting for the Beauty & the Beast bubble to burst and a new show to come to DHS ;-)

Beauty and the Beast is my favorite and I don't find the movie Frozen to be anywhere near it in quality BUT I'll concede that a new show there would be nice. I have seen it twice and that was enough, at least for me.

ETA: I also didn't see BATB taking over all of the parks, either. You have the crazy A&E meet and greet at MK, the new thing replacing Maelstrom, the big to-do they had at HS. I'm waiting for a reindeer exhibit in DAK to be announced, next.

Edited again to add: I realized after I typed this that I'm ignoring the huge BATB expansion that went in over at the MK. I still stand by my waiting for a reindeer exhibit, though. :)
 
I don't think all these decisions are based on money.
Allegedly the Candy Lady left of her own free will, particularly as she was told she couldn't give finished candy to guests due to "hygiene reasons".
Off Kilter had been performing for 17 years, its time to switch things up! They have opened a new show.
I really didn't like Mo'Rockin', so again change might be good, maybe I will like the replacement more.

I think these acts at Epcot should change every 3-5 years to give variety to repeat visitors, for some to have not been changed in a very long time I think was the bad thing, it shows a lack of willingness to change and offer new experiances.

I actually agree with a lot of what your saying here...but I'd like to see the shows change even more often...the lumberjack noise is a big mistake and I'd like to see that change soon...
I'm also going to miss the belly dancer..I think she was part of the Mo'Rockin' show...but I suspect the restaurant will find a way to have her attract customer to the restaurant
 

I still love WDW...truly I do. But, some of the changes that I'm seeing over the past few years is disheartening to say the least. Yes, things have to change. But, they don't see to be changing for the better.
I think that Disney is relying on first time visitors. They have proven they don't much care about those of us that return often. So, we either have to deal with it or just not go. Those that are going for the first time won't notice any differences. Who knows? They may even be fine with a lumberjack show. I have a trip in 2 weeks, then nothing planned. And that's unusual. I usually have a trip being planned at all times. I'm heading to San Diego right after Thanksgiving and driving up to DL for two days with another couple. Never been there, so eager to see the 'mother land'! After that? Who knows. Lots of places to visit...probably won't be returning to WDW multiple times a year anymore.

It's posts like this that Disney should be scared of.

If Disney loses the Brazilian money (their economy is teetering) then who is Disney relying on to pick up the slack since they are losing their most loyal customers like goofy4tink?
 
Disney does not offer official attendance anymore and they stopped breaking down revenue by location and it's just reported as "Disney Parks & Resorts". My guess is that the attendance estimates are extrapolated from tax revenue collected by the local jurisdictions.

TEA is as good a source as we're going to get without Disney's true numbers. I think some of what TEA presents does come from their members (Disney is one), but you're right, much of it is interpolated, in some way.

But one important number, beyond straight attendance, is market share.

Disney lost 3% last year - going from 74% to 71%, if I remember correctly. They watch it very closely.

It's a very important metric. Entertainment options are only increasing in the Orlando area, beyond what Uni is doing, with the huge Ferris wheel, the vertical coaster, etc.

Basically, the visitor pie got bigger but Disney's slice of it was smaller

So, if overall Orlando visitation increases 7% but Disney attendance only increases 5%, that's not what they want.

Even though it may look like a very solid increase when not taken in context.
 
TEA is as good a source as we're going to get without Disney's true numbers. I think some of what TEA presents does come from their members (Disney is one), but you're right, much of it is interpolated, in some way.

But one important number, beyond straight attendance, is market share.

Disney lost 3% last year - going from 74% to 71%, if I remember correctly. They watch it very closely.

It's a very important metric. Entertainment options are only increasing in the Orlando area, beyond what Uni is doing, with the huge Ferris wheel, the vertical coaster, etc.

Basically, the visitor pie got bigger but Disney's slice of it was smaller

So, if overall Orlando visitation increases 7% but Disney attendance only increases 5%, that's not what they want.

Even though it may look like a very solid increase when not taken in context.

Just curious: do you know what Universal's market share was for the same period?
 
/
Disney shoots themselves in the foot. They announce closures (recently many MANY closures or removals) with no corresponding announcement of what we can expect to see replacing it and WHEN.

If they would just be forthright with us, it would go a long way to shutting up those of us who are critical or suspicious of the closures.
According to Jim Hill the cutoff date for all new builds is 2021, the 50th anniversary. So really other than a few more add-ons they are just about done with what they are going to build for the next 6 years. You'll have:

At Animal Kingdom you'll have Avatarland and Rivers of Light (don't remember the name totally)

At Epcot you'll have the Frozen ride and meet and greet. Not sure you can bank on anything else since the park is making so much money. Maybe something new in E.O.

At MK there is nothing going on, they did the New Fantasyland and that was enough.

At DHS you'll have the new Pixar area being built and I really think they will do Star Wars by 2021. However, that park is going to be dismal mess for the next few years.

So that's a look at what the 50th year celebration will bring. Pretty lackluster if you ask me other than Avatar and Star Wars. That said, Disney will be making money like crazy leading up to the 50th anniversary by keeping expenses low and margins high.
 
According to Jim Hill the cutoff date for all new builds is 2021, the 50th anniversary. So really other than a few more add-ons they are just about done with what they are going to build for the next 6 years. You'll have:

At Animal Kingdom you'll have Avatarland and Rivers of Light (don't remember the name totally)

At Epcot you'll have the Frozen ride and meet and greet. Not sure you can bank on anything else since the park is making so much money. Maybe something new in E.O.

At MK there is nothing going on, they did the New Fantasyland and that was enough.

At DHS you'll have the new Pixar area being built and I really think they will do Star Wars by 2021. However, that park is going to be dismal mess for the next few years.
So that's a look at what the 50th year celebration will bring. Pretty lackluster if you ask me other than Avatar and Star Wars. That said, Disney will be making money like crazy leading up to the 50th anniversary by keeping expenses low and margins high.

Has disney announced these projects? I haven't seen anything.
 
I've been to WDW 3 times in the past 4 years, roughly once ever 2 years (spring 2010, fall 2012, fall 2014), I don't think I'll be going again until all of the construction is finished at the earliest.

From a value standpoint, I've found it to be eroding year after year and was especially surprised with the ticket price increases. In 2012 a 6 day hopper was $326.95 and in 2014 it was $383.35 - a 17.5% increase. Inflation was 3.7% over this time. (For full disclosure, we did go to Universal as well, and ticket prices were up 11.4% for a single day park to park - everything purchased through Undercover Tourist. But Uni got the new HP world too...)

Food & Wine prices are going up up up for less less less. I'm OK with them serving smaller beers (and charging less) but they aren't charging THAT much less for just a 4oz pour. Most food looks & tastes like it was defrosted. I'm not expecting the to make it at the cart, but I'd swear the pierogies were Mrs. T's right from the grocery store. Some of the stuff was good (I really liked the baklava) but most of the stuff we went back for wasn't at the food carts, rather the permanent pavilions (pumpkin macarons in France are amazing, so was the cronut at refreshment port!)

At EPCOT other than Soarin', TT and Sum of All Thrills there was basically nothing to do. I can see why they had to put in tiers...but getting FP for Imagination, SE, Nemo, M:E Green or Crush was basically just a waste.

The lumberjack show was alright, we aren't going to watch it again. The chainsaws were super loud, but I don't really get what that really has to do with Canada as opposed to other countries where they harvest lumber?

DHS is badly in need of an update, especially Indiana Jones which is almost the same as it was when my parents took me as a child in 95 or 96. Same with Flights of Wonder at DAK. Don't get me wrong, they are great shows, but they could change them up a LITTLE...even the jokes are the same!

So overall, we had a great time this trip, we went with good friends and it was my DWs first trip so she got to experience things for the first time but our eventual next trip will be much less time in the parks and more time at our resort/pool/restaurants.
 
lugnut33 said:
According to Jim Hill the cutoff date for all new builds is 2021, the 50th anniversary. So really other than a few more add-ons they are just about done with what they are going to build for the next 6 years. You'll have:

At Animal Kingdom you'll have Avatarland and Rivers of Light (don't remember the name totally)

At Epcot you'll have the Frozen ride and meet and greet. Not sure you can bank on anything else since the park is making so much money. Maybe something new in E.O.

At MK there is nothing going on, they did the New Fantasyland and that was enough.

At DHS you'll have the new Pixar area being built and I really think they will do Star Wars by 2021. However, that park is going to be dismal mess for the next few years.

So that's a look at what the 50th year celebration will bring. Pretty lackluster if you ask me other than Avatar and Star Wars. That said, Disney will be making money like crazy leading up to the 50th anniversary by keeping expenses low and margins high.

Jim hill means nothing to me. When Disney announces an opening date and actual details of what they are opening other than pie in the sky artist conception sketches...then let me know.
 
Beauty and the Beast is my favorite and I don't find the movie Frozen to be anywhere near it in quality BUT I'll concede that a new show there would be nice. I have seen it twice and that was enough, at least for me.

ETA: I also didn't see BATB taking over all of the parks, either. You have the crazy A&E meet and greet at MK, the new thing replacing Maelstrom, the big to-do they had at HS. I'm waiting for a reindeer exhibit in DAK to be announced, next.

Edited again to add: I realized after I typed this that I'm ignoring the huge BATB expansion that went in over at the MK. I still stand by my waiting for a reindeer exhibit, though. :)

You do realize in this case, Disney is simply trying to meet customer demand? The Frozen mania is there- Disney is just cashing in on it....nothing wrong with that imo.

People who have been here a very long time and made 5 times an many posts as me are seeing issues with what is going on.

And there are people like you describe that don't see the dire consequences in the future as well. I say read them all, then make up your own mind.

I have many issues with WDW, I just don't see the gloom and doom forecast others do. Just because one goes to WDW a lot and is a long time poster on an internet chat forum doesn't mean one has great insight into the future success or failure of WDW. They, like the newest of newbies, have a opinion. And you know what they say about opinions....;)
 
Just curious: do you know what Universal's market share was for the same period?

Honestly, haven't checked. That 18% increase in gate for 3Q was pretty impressive.

Especially since the "slow rolled" the DA opening.
 
I have many issues with WDW, I just don't see the gloom and doom forecast others do. Just because one goes to WDW a lot and is a long time poster on an internet chat forum doesn't mean one has great insight into the future success or failure of WDW. They, like the newest of newbies, have a opinion. And you know what they say about opinions....;)

Agreed on the value of opinion and agreed that what is on a website is only a microcosm of reality..but IMO it is a good sample size and this site has turned more negative than ever.

But even if only 20% of the hardcore walk away..that's a big number in $$...these are people that buy all the Disney stuff...not the kiddie stuff....but plates for walls and statues and lithographic and all that other stuff that I am amazed that Disney can sell..but they do and people can;t wait to buy it.

Is the Disney stock doing well now...yes it is..is that due to the parks or due to acquisitions of great properties created by others...but now they have to prove they can do something with these great properties...the stock market is very unforgiving and if the future start to not look so bright the stock will drop as quickly as it rose...the stock market is all about speculation and where the stock will go tomorrow....if I was someone who shorted stock I'd be shorting Disney...but I don't like to play that side of the market...

It's all just my speculation based on my experience and it is my opinion..and you know what they say about opinions....;)
 
You do realize in this case, Disney is simply trying to meet customer demand? The Frozen mania is there- Disney is just cashing in on it....nothing wrong with that imo.



And there are people like you describe that don't see the dire consequences in the future as well. I say read them all, then make up your own mind.

I have many issues with WDW, I just don't see the gloom and doom forecast others do. Just because one goes to WDW a lot and is a long time poster on an internet chat forum doesn't mean one has great insight into the future success or failure of WDW. They, like the newest of newbies, have a opinion. And you know what they say about opinions....;)

I'm trying to decide whether or not to respond to your response with sarcasm since I'm reading your tone as sarcastic. Do I realize they're catering to a demand with Frozen? Absolutely. I have a 9yo granddaughter. And a fair amount of experience with marketing. :)

I still say it's overrated and will go "poof" because I don't think it has the lasting quality that BATB has or The Little Mermaid, etc. It's my opinion and you know what they say about opinions...;)

I don't know how long you've been "doing Disney" but my experience goes back to the summer after WDW opened. Therefore, I can see the decline. As to "future insight" as to the success or failure of WDW, that's a stickier question and depends on one's definition of success.

My friend's sister went last January for a 10+ day trip. Flew from Alaska as a family of 5. Stayed onsite. They will not be returning because of FP+. The question is, does Disney consider that a success? If they were looking at marketing their product for a once in a lifetime trip and milking all they could out of that one group of guests, they got it. If they were looking for a family that will repeat this trip, and their children will grow up one day and repeat this trip with their children, they missed the mark by a long shot.
 
Because this is truly a 'discussion' board, we get to discuss things. Things we like, things we don't like. We get to ask questions and get to help others out. BUT...it just seems that when some post questions, they get snarky answers, like 'have you tried the search function?' or 'again? we get this question every week!'. Not so helpful.
Or, if someone says they hate some aspect of Disney, they get piles on, saying they have no idea what they're talking about. Or, the flip side of the coin, those that say they love everything Disney is doing, and they get piled on!

Here's the thing. I've been going to WDW for 15 years. That first trip was supposed to be the big, one and only trip. Yeah, well...how did that work out? I tend to go down at least twice a year, and some years have spent a total of 4 weeks there, if not more! So, yes, I've seen changes. Some good, some not so good. Do I still love Disney and WDW? Yes. Will I be going as often down the road? No. Why? Because Disney has changed too much for my particular liking. Others here may have no issues and will say that these are only small changes. Changes that shouldn't negatively impact anyone's trip. BUT....they do, in fact, negatively impact my trips. I have no issue with change, I truly don't. But please, give me something to like. Pleasure Island used to be a wonderful place to spend an evening or two. The Adventurer's Club was incredible. All gone now. Why? So we could have more retail and restaurants. Sorry Disney, but that just doesn't get it done for me. It was nice to have something 'adult' to do. Now, I have to go to Jellyrolls for adult entertainment. Don't get me wrong, I love JRs. I own at BWVs so I can go to JRs every evening if I choose. But I don't. It gets old quickly. It was nice to have a choice.
Every year has seen the dwindling of Christmas decor around the parks. Used to be that everywhere you looked, no matter which park, you could see beautiful decorations. Not so much anymore. Those that have been going for the past 5 years or so have no idea as to how it used to be. But, yes, things change. Can anyone here tell me that the lumberjack show is at least equal in entertainment value to Off Kilter? Naturally, neither may be your cup of tea. But, I have yet to hear anyone here saying that the lumberjack show is all that and a bag of chips! Most find it to be less than acceptable!

It's the little things that make up the magic of WDW for many of us...especially those of us that have been there over and over. But, when those little things are taken away, and not replaced, it does, in fact, make our trips a bit less magical. That may not be the case for others, but it most certainly is the case for a lot of us here. Please try to understand how we feel. I'm thrilled for those going now, that have no idea as to how it 'used to be'...they are never going to know what they have missed...and that's a good thing. They can be happy and enjoy what they are getting. Like I said, I'm thrilled for you all. But for others of us, we are feeling the difference between present day WDW and WDW of over 5 years ago.

Great post and you've pretty much summed up my thoughts and experiences over the last few years.
 
Not discounting anyone's opinion on either side of the argument. I do think at least part of a person's perception of a place is based on their own level of expectation.
 
I'm trying to decide whether or not to respond to your response with sarcasm since I'm reading your tone as sarcastic. Do I realize they're catering to a demand with Frozen? Absolutely. I have a 9yo granddaughter. And a fair amount of experience with marketing. :)

I still say it's overrated and will go "poof" because I don't think it has the lasting quality that BATB has or The Little Mermaid, etc. It's my opinion and you know what they say about opinions...;)

I don't know how long you've been "doing Disney" but my experience goes back to the summer after WDW opened. Therefore, I can see the decline. As to "future insight" as to the success or failure of WDW, that's a stickier question and depends on one's definition of success.

My friend's sister went last January for a 10+ day trip. Flew from Alaska as a family of 5. Stayed onsite. They will not be returning because of FP+. The question is, does Disney consider that a success? If they were looking at marketing their product for a once in a lifetime trip and milking all they could out of that one group of guests, they got it. If they were looking for a family that will repeat this trip, and their children will grow up one day and repeat this trip with their children, they missed the mark by a long shot.

No sarcasm intended at all.

I've been going to WDW since 1987- a relative newbie in comparison, but probably long enough to notice changes both good and bad. I've posted many of my concerns and quite often on this forum. I see a lot that needs improvement, I'm just don't see wrong in every move they make.

For that single family, of course it's not a success. But I read anecdotal posts on this forum from first time return guests as well as repeat that have a wonderful and love fp+. There's simply no way to know, long term, how successful WDW will be.
 
But what if they don't "replace" your favorite thing? I mean, your parade was replaced. Even though it was something you didn't care for, they offered something different.

What about all the things that are gone with no replacement that mattered to others? Like I said, they took away my Hunchback show but at least they put something else in there even if I didn't like it. Same with Maelstrom being replaced by Frozen. (Although, I'm waiting for the Frozen bubble to burst and wondering what they'll do then. Putting a Frozen ride in there throws the whole theme of WS off, at least to me.)

You mention the loss of your favorite parade (which at least had a replacement) and turn around and sneer at those who liked the parade in DAK (which was replaced with nothing)?

That's fair. They haven't replaced a few things they've removed (See Epcot) but my point was more that when SpectroMagic was replaced with something I didn't like, I sought out other things I might like instead of settling for the new offering. Now instead of sitting through the MSEP, I'll use the lesser crowds on the rides to ride BTMRR, Astro or even Dumbo at night, something I hadn't done before and I now find to all have a taste of Disney magic. While nothing will ever equal SpectroMagic for me, I have adapted and found other things I enjoy. When I can't find an adequate substitute for something I love being replaced, that is when I cease going to WDW.
 

PixFuture Display Ad Tag












Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE














DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Back
Top