"Red Shirt" Vent

[crisi]

Rec league is NOT that way here. You have to try out for rec league, and there is no guantee you will ever play. It is extremely competitve. Those leagues are based on age. Our school sports are supposed to be where everyone gets some playing time and learning experience, and they are organized by grade level. We don't play sports, so it really doesn't matter to us. Our dance classes are organized by ability rather than age. I was just saying that I couls see how a parent in that situation would be upset.

But a parent with a kid who isn't athletic is going to be upset, if there aren't non-competitive options. Or the ones that are smaller. It isn't simply an age thing. There are ALWAYS going to be upset parents (and kids) in competitive sports. And if that's too hard for parents or the kids, do something non-competitive - something where you advance based on ability, not age, or something that you just do for fun.

 

[dogluva]

those are the kids I would define as redshirted. They are tuning 7 before Christmas in K, and driving by christmas of their freshman year.

My son was eligible to get his drivers licence the summer before he went into his SENIOR year. He was 16.5. However, there is a student in middle school where I work who will be able to drive himself to school with his permit when he is an eighth grader. He will have his licence, if he wants it and can get it, by freshman year. Weird. He was held back for K and then stayed back sometime in elementary school.

 

[Marionnette]

My son was eligible to get his drivers licence the summer before he went into his SENIOR year. He was 16.5. However, there is a student in middle school where I work who will be able to drive himself to school with his permit when he is an eighth grader. He will have his licence, if he wants it and can get it, by freshman year. Weird. He was held back for K and then stayed back sometime in elementary school.

On the other side of the coin you have my neice. She started K at the age of 4. Her September birthday was a week before the school district's cutoff date. She began college at the age of 17 and was unable to sign for her own student loans because she was not legally an adult yet. She started her senior year at the age of 16 and was never able to drive to school. She will be the last of her classmates to turn 21 and has had to sit out when all of them planned casino trips to celebrate that milestone birthday. She was ready to start K both academically and emotionally so I don't think that my sister even considered holding her back for a year. But being "young" has always been a sore spot for her.

 

[Leajess99]

Not in our, highly competive, district. A parent must approve the recommendation to hold a child back in K, but the school will recommend it. In 1-4, they must have an average of 70 in ALL subjects to go on to the next grade AND be at a certain reading level. If a parent doesn't approve, they have to go through a long and lengthy appeals process that can take all summer and 80% of the time, the parents don't win.

I know one kid in DS9 class who has a 96 in reading, 98 in social studies, 97 in science, and 65 in math. His reading level is off the charts, but he might need to repeat only because of math (teacher from last year was bad). His mother, who I know very well and confides in me, is terrified for him. She knows she can put him in tutoring over the summer to catch him up (he is in tutoring now too, and his grades are climbing, but he will still be behind), but getting through the schools appeal process is going to be slim to none. Luckily, she can prove it was the teacher from last year's fault and with his improvements and math teacher from this year support, she stands a good chance.

That is so bogus. Here the kids do not even get letter grades until 3rd or 4th grade. Before that they work on mastering the skills. I know kids who struggle with Math and some have parents who will not do anything outside of school for them but others will do whatever is necessary to help their kids. The school districts are afforded the opportunity of grants to help implement help in the major areas so some of our schools have new Math programs.

My son's first grade teacher retired half way through the year because of medical and the replacement they had for the second half of the year were the reading specialists so they concentrated on reading and basically blew off Math. He was ahead in Math already but other kids in that class were behind in Math already so imagine how many kids would have been held back if my son's school had that same idea. I know there are some kids that really do need held back but unless they are struggling in all areas I do not think it is right to hold them back for struggling in one area. My son was behind the district that we moved to half way through 2nd grade but catching up for him was not an issue. For some kids it very well could have been.

 

[Leajess99]

I don't have a problem with parents waiting on sending their children if their birthdays are very close to the cut off. Especially boys, that makes sense. However, I do have a problem with parents keeping home their kids when their birthdays fall at the beginning of the year. My son made the cut off-at the time it was Dec. 31 and has since been changed to Aug. 31. He made it by a month and I sent him. He was ready and did fine. What I didn't like was that he was in the same grade as kids over a year, sometimes a year and a half older than him. Parents held their kids back and some of them were born in May the year before. By the time he got to high school, he was 13 turning 14 as a freshman and in the same class as kids who were pushing 16. One boy was held back and then repeated. This is too old and if he was a girl, it would have been worse, in my opinion.

This was like the kid on my daughter's basketball team last year. He turned 8 in 1st grade and was in the 1st - 2nd grade league and was the biggest kid on the team already. His birthday was not close to the cutoff (October 1st here) as it was in like feb or maybe March. He has no disability per his own mom but she wanted him to wait because the oldest child started on time and whatnot. The oldest was not struggling but she was mad because the school district he was in did not treat him right (ie a snowflake) so she was not doing that to her baby. The whole story just had me biting my tongue because it was ridiculous.

Now we do have one child close by who is a whole year older than her classmates due to them moving from here to Florida where the cutoff was Sept 1s and her birthday is like Sept 6th. She hates it because she should be in the 7th grade here now and her friends are all pretty much younger than her.

 

[GinnyEmma]

I do not think that sports concern should ever even factor into the concern. Are children in school to be educated or to play games?

 

[princessmom29]

I do not think that sports concern should ever even factor into the concern. Are children in school to be educated or to play games?

that's why I think sports should be organized by age rather than grade.

 

[mjkacmom]

that's why I think sports should be organized by age rather than grade.

Actually, many sports are. Little league is based on age, not grade, as is club soccer. Ds12 has a friend with a late birthday (but made the school cut-off), and he was never able to play with his classmates.

 

[bellebud]

Actually, many sports are. Little league is based on age, not grade, as is club soccer. Ds12 has a friend with a late birthday (but made the school cut-off), and he was never able to play with his classmates.

ya know, this is true, and I actually hated it for my dd. She has a mid-Oct bday, our school cut-off is Dec 1, so she started K at 4yo. But when she started softball, the cut-off was different than the school cut-off, so her classmates would have moved up before she did, and she would have had to play w/ the younger grade kids. So that's totally not fair either. (she doesn't play anymore anyway, but I was upset everyone but her would have moved to the next level - and she was as good as everyone else, and these were her "peers" according to gov't rules and regulations, which are what put her in their grade in the first place... knim? The local leagues should be consistant w/ how the local districts have their cut-offs... one way or the other.

I really hate late cut-offs in schools... Dec 1 is just silly - you could technically have an entire K class of 4yo's. Then they take the state tests, but they're being compared to 5-6yo's in different districts. Something's very wrong there.

 

[princessmom29]

Actually, many sports are. Little league is based on age, not grade, as is club soccer. Ds12 has a friend with a late birthday (but made the school cut-off), and he was never able to play with his classmates.

for rec sports, but anything associated with the schools is grade based. I wish schools would go by age, then there would be no redshirting for sports.

 

[design_mom]

My son is technically a "red shirt," I guess. His birthday falls 2 days before the cut off. For a variety of reasons, we decided to wait. However, I'm sure you'd never pick him out in a basketball clinic. Although he's one of the older kids in class, he's still one of the smallest. Every kid is different and most people is just trying to be the best parent they can be.

 

[mjkacmom]

for rec sports, but anything associated with the schools is grade based. I wish schools would go by age, then there would be no redshirting for sports.

And I feel they should stick to the grades, since very, very few here redshirt for sports - kids want to play with their friends, who are usually in their grade. I guess there is no way to make everyone happy. I don't even know if our school district would allow a child to be held back if his birthday wasn't close to the cutoff - I don't know of any child that has been more than a couple of months from the cutoff, and held back. Most are within weeks of the October 1st cutoff date.

 

[princessmom29]

And I feel they should stick to the grades, since very, very few here redshirt for sports - kids want to play with their friends, who are usually in their grade. I guess there is no way to make everyone happy. I don't even know if our school district would allow a child to be held back if his birthday wasn't close to the cutoff - I don't know of any child that has been more than a couple of months from the cutoff, and held back. Most are within weeks of the October 1st cutoff date.

In most places, school is not cumplsory until age 6, so if a child is 5 or younger on the first day of school, you are not required to send them. I know it is that way here, so children can and do turn 7 within days of starting K. I think the number redshirted for sports vary by area, but it is definitely more than a very few in this area, and it is at least part of the reason for many more.

 

[indimom]

Since a good part of this discussion revolves around sports and the size of the kids, I thought I'd include this photo taken this Christmas at my house. These boys are my son and three of my nephews. (Sorry for the creepy faces, but since three are not mine I didn't want to show them.)

They are:
An 11yrs 3mo. sixth grader.
A 10yrs 10mo. fifth grader.
A 9yrs 3mo. 3rd grader.
A 7yrs 4mo. 1st grader.

All went to K on time based on our local cutoff of July 1.
Care to guess which is which?
It's pretty hard.

I just really don't see any way to make sports participation perfectly fair. You can do it by age, by grade, whatever. There will always be someone who is at the far end of the spectrum. Who has an advantage based on size or maturity. That's just life.

 

[Colleen27]

My kids play "everyone has a chance" sports. Park and rec baseball - everyone bats, and coaches need to play everyone - its in the rules. Now, not everyone will get to play second base, but everyone will get to play. Park and rec soccer. Non competitive gymnastics. Again, everyone has a chance. Non-competitive tennis. Golf. Skateboarding. Skiing. If you want "everyone has a chance" sports, register your kids in "everyone has a chance" programs.

That's just about all we've got around here at the elementary school level. There are no school/grade based sports until middle school, and there aren't really competitive programs unless you choose to seek them out (travel baseball/softball instead of local little league, for example). Any kid who wants to try any sport at the elementary level can do so in an "everyone has a chance" setting where they're guaranteed playing time.

Maybe that's why we don't see redshirting for sports here - because grade doesn't come into play until middle or high school depending on the sport.

 

[princessmom29]

That's just about all we've got around here at the elementary school level. There are no school/grade based sports until middle school, and there aren't really competitive programs unless you choose to seek them out (travel baseball/softball instead of local little league, for example). Any kid who wants to try any sport at the elementary level can do so in an "everyone has a chance" setting where they're guaranteed playing time.

Maybe that's why we don't see redshirting for sports here - because grade doesn't come into play until middle or high school depending on the sport.

that probably has something to do with it. Here, CYO sports start at first or second grade depending on the sport, and they play by grade all the way up to 6th grade, them it is a middle school, and ahigh school team.

 

[dawnmommy]

"redshirting" isn't common around here. and certainly not for sports. If my town values anything, it is education, not sports. My dh lived in Texas for a while, and said school sports were huge there, I think it varies a lot by area.

We technically "redshirted" our son. his birthday was right before the cut off. we were in the middle of his kidney diagnosis and getting medicine straightened out for that. we also knew he'd be out for 3 weeks for surgery during the school year. he already had some fine motor delays, and we thought he'd fall too far behind.

so we "held him back" and sent him to a private "advanced pre-k" program. Best thing we ever kid. they worked with us after the surgery and he even went back part time 1 week later, with restrictions we couldn't have managed at the big public school.

it was the right choice for my kid. sports were the last thing on my mind. He is thriving and I'm darn proud that we did the right thing for our child. Because he has a summer birthday, he'll never turn 7 in kindergarten, but he is in fact 6. He would have been the youngest, now he's one of the oldest, and in a better place medically too.

 

[pacrosby]

I guess my 3rd child most definately qualifies for the 'red-shirt' title since our cut-off is 5 yrs old by Sept 1st, his birthday is January 1st, and he didn't start K until he was 6.5. "Could" he have managed if he had gone when he was 5.5? I'm sure he could have 'managed' but it would have been a struggle. And not behaviorally....he would have had no problem sitting and listening and following directions. Academically though, yes. He simply, developmentally, was not ready. Why would I knowingly set him up for for failure like that?

Nevermind the fact that he's also the size of his little brother who is 2.5 yrs younger than him LOL

He's in the first grade now and will turn 8 next week. He loves that he is the oldest in the class (and laughs because no one, given his size, ever believes him). He has more than a few friends who are within 6 months of him so he's not "that" much older than "everyone else". Like others have said, school isn't like it used to be. The expectations, academically, set for these early elementary school-aged kids are much greater; the pressures; the responsibilities. No, I'm not setting any of my kids up for failure. I have no doubt that we made the right decision. He is happy, well-adjusted, and thriving where he is at. I thought that was the ultimate goal.

 

[dawnmommy]

I also think Kindergarten varies a TON.

there are places where Kindergarten is still half day. to me, it is just an extension of preschool. cut offs are such that 4 year olds start, whereas we have a late august cut off.

Our kindergartens go from 9am - 3:50pm each day. They walk down the hall to music, gym, library, art, computer class just like the older kids. they eat in the cafeteria. Our son is reading and brings home homework.

our district changed to this model a number of years ago and we are a very highly rated school district. kids are in preschool for the most part anyway around here.

if our kindergarten was 3-3.5 hours only, and half the kids were 4 year olds, maybe we would have sent our son even with his planned surgery. I'm not sure.

but that isn't how our schools work. I do think that is part of why you see all of the different responses.

Kindergarten varies from 3 hours with some 4 & 5 year olds (half of the kids being 4, when there is still a December cut off) versus 7-8 hours with a full schedule, lunch, etc.

 

[RF536]

I guess my younger son qualifies as being "red-shirted", as he as a mid-Nov. birthday and here we have Dec. 1st cut off. We made this decision based on what was best for him academically. The year before, he cried everyday when we left him at pre-school and had a hard time in general seperating from us. The extra year made a big difference, and he entered kindergarten confident and happy. He is right in line academically with the rest of his class and has lots of friends.

In our district K is all day 5 days a week. The kids walk down the halls to their special classes and eat lunch in the cafeteria.