Recorded deeds October- December 2023 BLT/POLY/RIV/CCV

[BeachClub2014]

I tend to agree with your assessment - the Riviera resale product is just too different to be compared to anything else historically.




I actually am not sure why BLT and CCV would be the proper "non-restricted comps" for Riviera other than the fact that they are two O14 resorts with expiration after 2060 that currently are the closest in resale price. But that's almost like working backwards - we look at what's close in price and so we use that as a comp...

Why not use VGF as the best comparable resort for Riviera? First, they are both WDW resorts currently in active sales. Also, they are probably most comparable in terms of luxury, points charts, two view categories (not counting the new resort studio TP view at VGF), and they are also the only two DVC resorts which have both studios and 1BRs that sleep 5. And if we think of VGF as the best comparable resort then resale values don't look as close.

Another point of comparison for those two - they both currently have about 40-45 resale listings (as opposed to 191 BLT and 105 CCV). But of the 41 VGF resale listings only 13 (32%) are older than 60 days. Of the 45 Riviera listings, 21 (47%) are older than 60 days. So VGF resale seems to sell both faster, and at higher prices.

All that said, until at least 4-5 years from now, I don't think there will be a reliable indication where Riviera will end up. The resort has to sell out and we'll need a steadier stream of resale sellers.

Good points, but I really don't think we can/should compare the "performance" of one resort against another. There are just too many variables impacting perceived value. All the resorts are unique unto themselves, so to expect each to perform similarly in the resale market has never made sense to me.

Maybe there average resale price of Riveriera is where it's at because of its location or theming, or because many believe it to be just a dressed-up moderate resort or bland, or that the skyline sucks. The point is that many variables affect perceived value, and restrictions on resale points may be one of them. I still think it's too early to tell the impact of restrictions on resale values. It's easy to jump to that belief when Riviera is the only resort to look at. Let's see what happens when other "restricted" resorts come on line and are putting resale contracts into the market.

 

[DanCali]

I still think it's too early to tell the impact of restrictions on resale values. It's easy to jump to that belief when Riviera is the only resort to look at. Let's see what happens when other "restricted" resorts come on line and are putting resale contracts into the market.

I agree that it's too early to know about Riviera, but general economic theory suggests that when supply increases (and it inevitably will as initial buyers sell), prices tend to go down. It's true that direct developer supply (currently "unlimited" for practical purposes) will go away, but the resale product is very different from the direct one, so it's the resale supply that matters imo. In addition, it's just logical that, "everything else equal", a more flexible product should have a premium and a less flexible product should trade at a discount. That's why it matters if you look at BLT/CCV as the relevant "comp" or if you look at VGF as the "comp" - your conclusion on the premium/discount aspect might be different.

While these types of resale restrictions are new to DVC, there are timeshare systems that have had them for 15+ years so talking a look how things ended up there may give some indication. Without going too much into the weeds, what I have in mind is the Westin/Sheraton Vacation Club. In that system the first handful of resorts are more similar to the DVC "O14" on the resale market (albeit the deeds are perpetual and, unlike O14, they can also trade internally into the newer resale-restricted resorts) while newer resorts are restricted on the resale market and more similar to Riviera, having no ability to trade internally except via Interval. If you want to see how that ended up, check out the resale prices on Redweek of the Westin Kaanapali Villas on Maui (2 separate unrestricted resorts) vs. the Westin Princeville Villas on Kauai (resale restricted - can only trade via Interval). Perhaps part of the difference can be explained by the location or Maui vs Kauai, but the restrictions likely have a primary role as well. Resale buyers like and prefer flexibility too...

 

[TinkAgainU]

Just as a random "aside" note, I love the Skyliner, but bought resale at Boardwalk so I could use it for fun, but not "depend" on it - spending a ton of points, then needing the bus 'cause Skyliner is down would make me a little nuts lol.

 

[Sandisw]

Just as a random "aside" note, I love the Skyliner, but bought resale at Boardwalk so I could use it for fun, but not "depend" on it - spending a ton of points, then needing the bus 'cause Skyliner is down would make me a little nuts lol.

We budget for Lyft so if it is down, we don’t need to bus. However, it’s also why we split stay so we do MK and AK when at VGF/BLT and Epcot/HS from RIV. Best of all worlds! Lol

 

[tom1944]

In August we found it very easy to get to Epcot from BLT.

I have read several posts that some people find the transfer a hassle.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I agree that it's too early to know about Riviera, but general economic theory suggests that when supply increases (and it inevitably will as initial buyers sell), prices tend to go down. It's true that direct developer supply (currently "unlimited" for practical purposes) will go away, but the resale product is very different from the direct one, so it's the resale supply that matters imo. In addition, it's just logical that, "everything else equal", a more flexible product should have a premium and a less flexible product should trade at a discount. That's why it matters if you look at BLT/CCV as the relevant "comp" or if you look at VGF as the "comp" - your conclusion on the premium/discount aspect might be different.

While these types of resale restrictions are new to DVC, there are timeshare systems that have had them for 15+ years so talking a look how things ended up there may give some indication. Without going too much into the weeds, what I have in mind is the Westin/Sheraton Vacation Club. In that system the first handful of resorts are more similar to the DVC "O14" on the resale market (albeit the deeds are perpetual and, unlike O14, they can also trade internally into the newer resale-restricted resorts) while newer resorts are restricted on the resale market and more similar to Riviera, having no ability to trade internally except via Interval. If you want to see how that ended up, check out the resale prices on Redweek of the Westin Kaanapali Villas on Maui (2 separate unrestricted resorts) vs. the Westin Princeville Villas on Kauai (resale restricted - can only trade via Interval). Perhaps part of the difference can be explained by the location or Maui vs Kauai, but the restrictions likely have a primary role as well. Resale buyers like and prefer flexibility too...

Interesting discussion and I'll take your word for it on other timeshare systems as I have no experience in any timeshare other than DVC.

It will be fun to see how this unfolds over time, as so many variables will impact the product. If DVD stays true to its stated commitment to restrictions on resale points, then the number of resorts with those use restrictions will continue to increase. Assuming that the new Poly Tower (I know, it's an assumption) is a new association with restrictions and the new Fort Wilderness cabins also have them, that's three WDW with restrictions in the next few years. Looking further down the road, DVD will likely need to build three new resorts to have products to sell between Poly Tower and FWC selling out and the 2042 resorts going offline. If DVD keeps restrictions, then those yet-to-be-announced resorts will likely have them. How does this continue to change the resale landscape? I dunno, but it will be interesting.

I agree that most (an assumption on my part) resale buyers want flexibility in using points, but they also want value against other options. As the calendar continues to inch toward 2042, that value proposition begins to diminish at some point. At what point do the remaining years on those resorts make buying them resale less attractive? There are already many, many people here on the DIS that argue against buying 2042 resorts.

So, over time, the number of resorts with restrictions will continue to increase (in theory) and have much longer expiration dates than the diminishing supply of the original resorts that offered the flexibility. The remaining life of the contract has to impact the value of resale contracts.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I agree that most (an assumption on my part) resale buyers want flexibility in using points, but they also want value against other options. As the calendar continues to inch toward 2042, that value proposition begins to diminish at some point. At what point do the remaining years on those resorts make buying them resale less attractive? There are already many, many people here on the DIS that argue against buying 2042 resorts.

So, over time, the number of resorts with restrictions will continue to increase (in theory) and have much longer expiration dates than the diminishing supply of the original resorts that offered the flexibility. The remaining life of the contract has to impact the value of resale contracts.

There is a lot of discussion about 2042, but in my opinion, the non-restricted resale resorts will hold a lot of value so long as they let you stay at Aulani (2062), Grand Cal (admittedly this is already tough, but will get a little easier after 2042, 2060), Animal Kingdom (2057) and BLT/VGF/PVB (2060s) expire. In addition to likely being able to use them in Hawaii, having the option to pick different resorts around WDW is extremely valuable, especially if you travel less than 7mo out and need flexibility. I would expect the unrestricted resale to hold a value advantage until at least 2050, when it gives you 10 years of a lot more flexibility... though the delta may start to decrease as we approach 2050, I also think it could rise dramatically after RIV sells out, especially if it turns out that all new sales are restricted, and the supply of "unrestricted resale" drops dramatically after 2042.

 

[TinkAgainU]

Restrictions are concerning. I have friends with the Grand CA as a Home Resort that rarely get to use their points because of the competition for rooms (unlike in Florida, where you can almost always book your points at one of the bigger resorts if needed). They bought Direct and are looking forward to VDH adding usability of their points. But they freaked a bit over VDH resale restrictions - since if everyone who ever buys VDH resale in the future Must use their points at VDH and no other DVC - they see VDH being as hard to book as VGC in a few years. They already said they plan use all their points at both, then dump their membership altogether. They have not found their DVC purchase to be nearly as "member friendly" as hoped, would be a Real understatement. They are NOT good ambassadors for buying DVC

 

[tom1944]

Quiet day on the resale deeds

			OCTOBER RESALES	100-300 POINTS
TOTAL COST	POINTS	USE YEAR	PRICE PER POINT	CONTRACT DATE	TITLE COMPANY	RESORT	RECORDED DATE
$ 32,250.00	250​	JUNE	$ 129.00	9/21/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/2/2023​
$ 20,960.00	160​	FEBRUARY	$ 131.00	9/7/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/2/2023​
$ 27,720.00	210​	SEPTEMBER	$ 132.00	9/18/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/2/2023​
$ 19,600.00	140​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/25/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 14,500.00	100​	AUGUST	$ 145.00	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 22,350.00	150​	SEPTEMBER	$ 149.00	9/19/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 28,500.00	190​	APRIL	$ 150.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 23,300.00	150​	DECEMBER	$ 155.33	9/15/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 13,200.00	100​	JUNE	$ 132.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/3/2023​
$ 22,080.00	160​	DECEMBER	$ 138.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/3/2023​
$ 14,000.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/3/2023​
$ 24,700.00	190​	MARCH	$ 130.00	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	CCV	10/3/2023​
$ 14,900.00	100​	JUNE	$ 149.00	9/26/2023​	MTI	CCV	10/3/2023​
$ 36,300.00	275​	APRIL	$ 132.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 21,450.00	150​	DECEMBER	$ 143.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 31,460.00	220​	JUNE	$ 143.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 15,000.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 150.00	9/22/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 13,000.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 130.00	9/27/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 20,800.00	160​	APRIL	$ 130.00	9/30/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 15,600.00	115​	SEPTEMBER	$ 135.65	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 18,460.00	130​	OCTOBER	$ 142.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 19,500.00	150​	DECEMBER	$ 130.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/4/2023​
$ 28,400.00	200​	AUGUST	$ 142.00	9/18/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/4/2023​
$ 14,700.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 147.00	9/8/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/4/2023​
$ 24,800.00	200​	AUGUST	$ 124.00	9/14/2023​	CAMMY	RIV	10/4/2023​
$ 23,200.00	160​	FEBRUARY	$ 145.00	9/14/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/5/2023​
$ 30,000.00	200​	DECEMBER	$ 150.00	9/29/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/5/2023​
$ 16,300.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 163.00	9/25/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/5/2023​
$ 24,200.00	200​	JUNE	$ 121.00	9/29/2023​	CAMMY	RIV	10/5/2023​
$ 40,500.00	300​	JUNE	$ 135.00	9/29/2023​	CAMMY	CCV	10/6/2023​
$ 28,000.00	175​	SEPTEMBER	$ 160.00	10/2/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/6/2023​
$ 20,850.00	150​	JUNE	$ 139.00	9/27/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 35,000.00	250​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/19/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 26,250.00	175​	DECEMBER	$ 150.00	9/30/2023​	MTI	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 24,960.00	160​	AUGUST	$ 156.00	9/22/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 23,125.00	185​	DECEMBER	$ 125.00	8/22/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/6/2023​
$ 13,900.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 139.00	10/2/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	BLT	10/9/2023​
$ 14,500.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 145.00	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/9/2023​
$ 20,000.00	150​	OCTOBER	$ 133.33	9/27/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/9/2023​
$ 29,000.00	215​	MARCH	$ 134.88	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/9/2023​
$ 15,625.00	125​	JUNE	$ 125.00	10/2/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	RIV	10/9/2023​
$ 21,800.00	160​	SEPTEMBER	$ 136.25	10/6/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/10/2023​
$ 27,400.00	200​	AUGUST	$ 137.00	9/29/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/10/2023​
$ 17,500.00	125​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/28/2023​	MTI	CCV	10/10/2023​
$ 23,000.00	200​	JUNE	$ 115.00	10/5/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/10/2023​
$ 26,000.00	200​	SEPTEMBER	$ 130.00	9/25/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/11/2023​
$ 15,100.00	100​	JUNE	$ 151.00	10/5/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/11/2023​
$ 13,500.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 135.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	*****10/2/2023

 

[tom1944]

Here is the 2-week data.

			OCTOBER RESALES	100-300 POINTS
TOTAL COST	POINTS	USE YEAR	PRICE PER POINT	CONTRACT DATE	TITLE COMPANY	RESORT	RECORDED DATE
$ 20,960.00	160​	FEBRUARY	$ 131.00	9/7/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/2/2023​
$ 23,200.00	160​	FEBRUARY	$ 145.00	9/14/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/5/2023​
$ 27,720.00	210​	SEPTEMBER	$ 132.00	9/18/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/2/2023​
$ 22,720.00	160​	MARCH	$ 142.00	9/19/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/12/2023​
$ 32,250.00	250​	JUNE	$ 129.00	9/21/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/2/2023​
$ 26,000.00	200​	SEPTEMBER	$ 130.00	9/25/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/11/2023​
$ 13,200.00	100​	JUNE	$ 132.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/3/2023​
$ 22,080.00	160​	DECEMBER	$ 138.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/3/2023​
$ 14,000.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/3/2023​
$ 13,000.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 130.00	9/27/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 15,600.00	115​	SEPTEMBER	$ 135.65	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 14,000.00	100​	FEBRUARY	$ 140.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/13/2023​
$ 18,460.00	130​	OCTOBER	$ 142.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 14,500.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 145.00	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/9/2023​
$ 27,400.00	200​	AUGUST	$ 137.00	9/29/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/10/2023​
$ 20,800.00	160​	APRIL	$ 130.00	9/30/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 20,800.00	160​	FEBRUARY	$ 130.00	10/2/2023​	MTI	BLT	10/12/2023​
$ 13,900.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 139.00	10/2/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	BLT	10/9/2023​
$ 21,800.00	160​	SEPTEMBER	$ 136.25	10/6/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/10/2023​
$ 20,240.00	160​	JUNE	$ 126.50	10/9/2023​	MTI	BLT	10/13/2023​
$ 20,614.50	150​	JUNE	$ 137.43	10/10/2023​	TRCS	BLT	10/13/2023​
$ 14,700.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 147.00	9/8/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/4/2023​
$ 28,400.00	200​	AUGUST	$ 142.00	9/18/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/4/2023​
$ 14,900.00	100​	JUNE	$ 149.00	9/26/2023​	MTI	CCV	10/3/2023​
$ 19,500.00	150​	DECEMBER	$ 130.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/4/2023​
$ 24,700.00	190​	MARCH	$ 130.00	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	CCV	10/3/2023​
$ 17,500.00	125​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/28/2023​	MTI	CCV	10/10/2023​
$ 40,500.00	300​	JUNE	$ 135.00	9/29/2023​	CAMMY	CCV	10/6/2023​
$ 28,000.00	175​	SEPTEMBER	$ 160.00	10/2/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/6/2023​
$ 15,900.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 159.00	10/9/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/13/2023​
$ 23,300.00	150​	DECEMBER	$ 155.33	9/15/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 35,000.00	250​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/19/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 22,350.00	150​	SEPTEMBER	$ 149.00	9/19/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 15,000.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 150.00	9/22/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 24,960.00	160​	AUGUST	$ 156.00	9/22/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 19,600.00	140​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/25/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 16,300.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 163.00	9/25/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/5/2023​
$ 28,500.00	190​	APRIL	$ 150.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 20,000.00	150​	OCTOBER	$ 133.33	9/27/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/9/2023​
$ 20,850.00	150​	JUNE	$ 139.00	9/27/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 36,300.00	275​	APRIL	$ 132.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 29,000.00	215​	MARCH	$ 134.88	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/9/2023​
$ 21,450.00	150​	DECEMBER	$ 143.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 31,460.00	220​	JUNE	$ 143.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 14,500.00	100​	AUGUST	$ 145.00	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 30,000.00	200​	DECEMBER	$ 150.00	9/29/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/5/2023​
$ 26,250.00	175​	DECEMBER	$ 150.00	9/30/2023​	MTI	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 28,000.00	200​	OCTOBER	$ 140.00	10/8/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/13/2023​
$ 23,125.00	185​	DECEMBER	$ 125.00	8/22/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/6/2023​
$ 24,800.00	200​	AUGUST	$ 124.00	9/14/2023​	CAMMY	RIV	10/4/2023​
$ 13,500.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 135.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	*****10/2/2023
$ 24,200.00	200​	JUNE	$ 121.00	9/29/2023​	CAMMY	RIV	10/5/2023​
$ 15,625.00	125​	JUNE	$ 125.00	10/2/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	RIV	10/9/2023​
$ 23,000.00	200​	JUNE	$ 115.00	10/5/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/10/2023​
$ 15,100.00	100​	JUNE	$ 151.00	10/5/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/11/2023​
$ 14,000.00	100​	AUGUST	$ 140.00	10/10/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/13/2023​

 

[tom1944]

BLT 21 contracts average $20,154.50 149.29 points $135 per point

CCV 9 contracts average $22,677.78 160 points $141.74 per point

POLY 18 contracts average $24,601.11 170.833 points $144 per point

RIV 8 contracts average $19,168.75 151.25 points $126.74 per point

Remember I am not tracking contracts under 100 points or over 300.

 

[DanCali]

BLT 21 contracts average $20,154.50 149.29 points $135 per point

CCV 9 contracts average $22,677.78 160 points $141.74 per point

POLY 18 contracts average $24,601.11 170.833 points $144 per point

RIV 8 contracts average $19,168.75 151.25 points $126.74 per point

Remember I am not tracking contracts under 100 points or over 300.

Are you still checking which of the Riviera buys also had a previously-purchased direct contract? So far, is it just the 100-point one recorded on 10/2 (marked with asterisks). If so, it's pretty interesting that most are first-time Riviera buyers. I would have thought the restrictions are less of an issue for those who already own direct there - and they would probably be willing to pay more as a result.

 

[tom1944]

Are you still checking which of the Riviera buys also had a previously-purchased direct contract? So far, is it just the 100-point one recorded on 10/2 (marked with asterisks). If so, it's pretty interesting that most are first-time Riviera buyers. I would have thought the restrictions are less of an issue for those who already own direct there - and they would probably be willing to pay more as a result.

Yes

There has only been one where the owner had previously purchased direct at Riviera

 

[rM3panno]

Yes

There has only been one where the owner had previously purchased direct at Riviera

Hopefully my data shows up in the next month or 2. Im a direct RIV owner with 2-150 pt contracts. We are in ROFR on a 100 pt resale contract. Use year and contract size more important than $/pt for the add on

 

[intamin]

Yes

There has only been one where the owner had previously purchased direct at Riviera

I'm surprised. I would've guessed they'd be RIV direct owners already but maybe people just want it for access to tower studios if they already own direct points or they have all resale points and just want access for as cheap as possible.

 

[tom1944]

I'm surprised. I would've guessed they'd be RIV direct owners already but maybe people just want it for access to tower studios if they already own direct points or they have all resale points and just want access for as cheap as possible.

I am surprised also.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm surprised. I would've guessed they'd be RIV direct owners already but maybe people just want it for access to tower studios if they already own direct points or they have all resale points and just want access for as cheap as possible.

Having fallen in love with the resort, I can understand some who may have bought and don’t care to be stuck there for certain trips.

But, I do think that we will see buyers who already have points to use elsewhere or those who are like me, and know we will stay at RIV every trip..at least for part of it.

 

[intamin]

Having fallen in love with the resort, I can understand some who may have bought and don’t care to be stuck there for certain trips.

But, I do think that we will see buyers who already have points to use elsewhere or those who are like me, and know we will stay at RIV every trip..at least for part of it.

Yep could very well just be somebody wanting it to become the other part of their split stay consistently in which case resale wouldn't matter

 

[emchen]

I'm surprised. I would've guessed they'd be RIV direct owners already but maybe people just want it for access to tower studios if they already own direct points or they have all resale points and just want access for as cheap as possible.

…we know full well how compelling summer incentives were, not just for VGF!

Having fallen in love with the resort, I can understand some who may have bought and don’t care to be stuck there for certain trips.

But, I do think that we will see buyers who already have points to use elsewhere or those who are like me, and know we will stay at RIV every trip..at least for part of it.

…this certainly contributed to us adding 200 pts, but summer incentives greased the wheels for sure!

Yep could very well just be somebody wanting it to become the other part of their split stay consistently in which case resale wouldn't matter

…seems like I fit the profile except summer incentives got me when I was having trouble getting sellers to go much below $140 per point on the resale market. Even now, I think direct being $10-15 per point above resale prices isn’t enough of a savings to offset benefits of a direct contract.

 

[tom1944]

Here are the recorded deeds through the 20th. There were no deeds recorded today that were within the criteria I am tracking.

There was a 350-point CCV and basically nothing else today.

Yesterday there were 2 Riviera contracts over 300 points. Both went for under $120 a point.

$ 20,960.00	160​	FEBRUARY	$ 131.00	9/7/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/2/2023​
$ 27,720.00	210​	SEPTEMBER	$ 132.00	9/18/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/2/2023​
$ 32,250.00	250​	JUNE	$ 129.00	9/21/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/2/2023​
$ 13,200.00	100​	JUNE	$ 132.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/3/2023​
$ 14,000.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/3/2023​
$ 22,080.00	160​	DECEMBER	$ 138.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/3/2023​
$ 13,000.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 130.00	9/27/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 15,600.00	115​	SEPTEMBER	$ 135.65	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 18,460.00	130​	OCTOBER	$ 142.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 20,800.00	160​	APRIL	$ 130.00	9/30/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/4/2023​
$ 23,200.00	160​	FEBRUARY	$ 145.00	9/14/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/5/2023​
$ 13,900.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 139.00	10/2/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	BLT	10/9/2023​
$ 14,500.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 145.00	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/9/2023​
$ 21,800.00	160​	SEPTEMBER	$ 136.25	10/6/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/10/2023​
$ 27,400.00	200​	AUGUST	$ 137.00	9/29/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/10/2023​
$ 26,000.00	200​	SEPTEMBER	$ 130.00	9/25/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/11/2023​
$ 20,800.00	160​	FEBRUARY	$ 130.00	10/2/2023​	MTI	BLT	10/12/2023​
$ 22,720.00	160​	MARCH	$ 142.00	9/19/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/12/2023​
$ 14,000.00	100​	FEBRUARY	$ 140.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/13/2023​
$ 20,240.00	160​	JUNE	$ 126.50	10/9/2023​	MTI	BLT	10/13/2023​
$ 20,614.50	150​	JUNE	$ 137.43	10/10/2023​	TRCS	BLT	10/13/2023​
$ 14,000.00	100​	AUGUST	$ 140.00	10/5/2023​	CAMMY	BLT	10/16/2023​
$ 13,900.00	100​	FEBRUARY	$ 139.00	9/21/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/17/2023​
$ 23,500.00	175​	FEBRUARY	$ 134.29	10/10/2023​	SWEET	BLT	10/17/2023​
$ 21,120.00	160​	MARCH	$ 132.00	10/11/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/19/2023​
$ 30,800.00	220​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	10/13/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	BLT	10/19/2023​
$ 14,900.00	100​	JUNE	$ 149.00	9/26/2023​	MTI	CCV	10/3/2023​
$ 24,700.00	190​	MARCH	$ 130.00	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	CCV	10/3/2023​
$ 14,700.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 147.00	9/8/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/4/2023​
$ 19,500.00	150​	DECEMBER	$ 130.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/4/2023​
$ 28,400.00	200​	AUGUST	$ 142.00	9/18/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/4/2023​
$ 28,000.00	175​	SEPTEMBER	$ 160.00	10/2/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/6/2023​
$ 40,500.00	300​	JUNE	$ 135.00	9/29/2023​	CAMMY	CCV	10/6/2023​
$ 17,500.00	125​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/28/2023​	MTI	CCV	10/10/2023​
$ 15,900.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 159.00	10/9/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/13/2023​
$ 16,875.00	125​	SEPTEMBER	$ 135.00	9/26/2023​	MTI	CCV	10/16/2023​
$ 14,400.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 144.00	10/11/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/17/2023​
$ 25,800.00	200​	SEPTEMBER	$ 129.00	10/6/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	CCV	10/18/2023​
$ 14,000.00	100​	FEBRUARY	$ 140.00	10/11/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/19/2023​
$ 33,825.00	275​	JUNE	$ 123.00	10/12/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	CCV	10/19/2023​
$ 14,500.00	100​	AUGUST	$ 145.00	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 19,600.00	140​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/25/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 22,350.00	150​	SEPTEMBER	$ 149.00	9/19/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 23,300.00	150​	DECEMBER	$ 155.33	9/15/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 28,500.00	190​	APRIL	$ 150.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/2/2023​
$ 15,000.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 150.00	9/22/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 21,450.00	150​	DECEMBER	$ 143.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 31,460.00	220​	JUNE	$ 143.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 36,300.00	275​	APRIL	$ 132.00	9/28/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/3/2023​
$ 16,300.00	100​	SEPTEMBER	$ 163.00	9/25/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/5/2023​
$ 30,000.00	200​	DECEMBER	$ 150.00	9/29/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/5/2023​
$ 20,850.00	150​	JUNE	$ 139.00	9/27/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 24,960.00	160​	AUGUST	$ 156.00	9/22/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 26,250.00	175​	DECEMBER	$ 150.00	9/30/2023​	MTI	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 35,000.00	250​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/19/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/6/2023​
$ 20,000.00	150​	OCTOBER	$ 133.33	9/27/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/9/2023​
$ 29,000.00	215​	MARCH	$ 134.88	9/28/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/9/2023​
$ 28,000.00	200​	OCTOBER	$ 140.00	10/8/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/13/2023​
$ 37,500.00	300​	JUNE	$ 125.00	10/3/2023​	CAMMY	POLY	10/16/2023​
$ 25,800.00	200​	JUNE	$ 129.00	10/5/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/17/2023​
$ 31,175.00	215​	JUNE	$ 145.00	10/10/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/17/2023​
$ 10,900.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 109.00	10/13/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	POLY	10/18/2023​
$ 16,720.00	110​	FEBRUARY	$ 152.00	10/12/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/18/2023​
$ 31,200.00	200​	DECEMBER	$ 156.00	10/5/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	POLY	10/18/2023​
$ 22,240.00	160​	AUGUST	$ 139.00	10/9/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/19/2023​
$ 17,400.00	120​	DECEMBER	$ 145.00	10/2/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	POLY	10/19/2023​
TOTAL COST	POINTS	USE YEAR	PRICE PER POINT	CONTRACT DATE	TITLE COMPANY	RESORT	RECORDED DATE
$ 24,800.00	200​	AUGUST	$ 124.00	9/14/2023​	CAMMY	RIV	10/4/2023​
$ 24,200.00	200​	JUNE	$ 121.00	9/29/2023​	CAMMY	RIV	10/5/2023​
$ 23,125.00	185​	DECEMBER	$ 125.00	8/22/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/6/2023​
$ 15,625.00	125​	JUNE	$ 125.00	10/2/2023​	DUNCAN TITLE	RIV	10/9/2023​
$ 23,000.00	200​	JUNE	$ 115.00	10/5/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/10/2023​
$ 15,100.00	100​	JUNE	$ 151.00	10/5/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/11/2023​
$ 14,000.00	100​	AUGUST	$ 140.00	10/10/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/13/2023​
$ 18,600.00	155​	DECEMBER	$ 120.00	10/10/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/17/2023​
$ 21,000.00	150​	DECEMBER	$ 140.00	9/28/2023​	MTI	RIV	10/18/2023​
$ 39,000.00	300​	DECEMBER	$ 130.00	10/10/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	10/19/2023​
$ 13,500.00	100​	DECEMBER	$ 135.00	9/26/2023​	MAGIC VACATION	RIV	*****10/2/2023
			OCTOBER RESALES	100-300 POINTS