Rant: The DDP is ruining everything!

[Lewisc]

I don't think you can say all the changes are Disney's fault and/or blame it exclusively on the DDP.

I think there is plenty of blame to put on those that abused the program from the begining, by paying $10.99 and feeding an adult lobster and steak on that.

You can certainly blame Disney for designing a plan that allowed just that. You can certainly blame Disney for doing nothing to change the plan to prohibit that behavior years after various internet sites were encouraging guests to "use their kids as a license to print money". You can certainly blame Disney for allowing kids to order appetizers and dessert from the adult menu. Disney could have just added a kids appetizer. It is not just unfair but is inaccurate and rude to blame customers who used the plan exactly as described in the brochure and exactly as the plan was administered. The brochure allows Disney to charge two credits for everyone dining at a signature restaurant;no sharing or paying out of pocket for the kids but Disney chose not to.

The bean counters decided it would be more efficient to standardize the menus. To delete the more expensive items that either take too much time to prepare or weren't being ordered by enough guests. Look at the new bar menus. Some of the more exotic menu items were dropped at AP long before the new dining plan.

Face facts, if enough guests were willing to pay for the dining experience that a few posters are looking for Disney would have excluded more restaurants than just V&A. The Contemporary Resort has CM and the Concourse steak house. Disney could have excluded the CG. Disney could have excluded either Narcoess or Citros (spelling?) at the GF. Disney likes having their restaurants full with guests that are staying at their resorts.

 

[Nancyg56]

You can certainly blame Disney for designing a plan that allowed just that. You can certainly blame Disney for doing nothing to change the plan to prohibit that behavior years after various internet sites were encouraging guests to "use their kids as a license to print money". You can certainly blame Disney for allowing kids to order appetizers and dessert off the kids menu. Disney could have just added a kids appetizer. It is not just unfair but is inaccurate and rude to blame customers who used the plan exactly as described in the brochure and exactly as the plan was administered. The brochure allows Disney to charge two credits for everyone dining at a signature restaurant;no sharing or paying out of pocket for the kids but Disney chose not to.

The bean counters decided it would be more efficient to standardize the menus. To delete the more expensive items that either take too much time to prepare or weren't being ordered by enough guests. Look at the new bar menus. Some of the more exotic menu items were dropped at AP long before the new dining plan.

Face facts, if enough guests were willing to pay for the dining experience that a few posters are looking for Disney would have excluded more restaurants than just V&A. The Contemporary Resort has CM and the Concourse steak house. Disney could have excluded the CG. Disney could have excluded either Narcoess or Citros (spelling?) at the GF. Disney likes having their restaurants full with guests that are staying at their resorts.

I agree with you. I never understood why Disney never separated adult and child credits or had menus in place that allowed a child to order an appetizer that cost as much as the child's plan. But they did. If there were people who exploited a "loophole" and it was a problem for DIsney, DIsney should close it in the manner you suggested.

I would not mind if the DDP excluded several restaurants if I knew prior to purchase. I would not mind if Disney only offereds a limited menu for the DDP as long as the terms were clear prior to purchase.

I think that Disney can offer prepaid plans in the manner they choose, but that the terms should be very clear so that people can make a informed decision based on information that Disney provides. If the plan that Disney offered appealed to enough people Disney wins. My guess is that there is plenty of information that suggests the signature restaurants need the DDP in order to fill the house.

I guess that the DDP is a double edged sword. Blame it for reducing the quality of the menus but filling the house or encourage its use in order to encourage enough guests in each restaurant to generate a profit. Maybe Disney is still trying to find the balance.

 

[kathyg]

I, too, must rant at the turn of events at Disney. Disney was well on it's way to becoming a dining destination as well as a theme park. Something for everyone. But scaling back on all the menus is disgraceful. The new CG menu is awful...who eats a cheese plate for dinner? I was so looking forward to trying CG for the first time, but I have definitely changed my mind. I'm certain that more and more restaurants will be following suit, scaling down their menus to accomodate the DDP. The dining plan is ruining everything good about dining at Disney...it is becoming mediocre at best. Dining at Disney used to be (at least for us) a major, major part of our vacation. We are six foodies who enjoy our meals as much as we enjoy the rides and the parks.

I, for one, vote to get rid of the dining plan altogether and let the restaurants go back to serving meals that they do best. All restaurants cannot accomodate everyone. The good thing about Disney is that there is something for everyone's taste and budget. While I could not afford California Grill on previous trips, perhaps I can on this one. But that doesn't mean that I was food deprived on previous trips. There were lots of places, varied in offerings, that we could enjoy on a small budget. This time, I would like to be able to sample California Grill and all of its offerings. But the offerings that I was looking forward to are no longer there. Just an example of things to come.

I think in Disney's efforts to please all of the people all of the time, they have taken away the uniqueness of the Disney experience. Although my children have grown, having seen the new "children's menu", I would be hard pressed to spend $$$$ on a Disney vacation if my kids were treated like numbers. Please, Disney, don't lecture me on nutrition for kids or adults. I am well aware of trans fats, calories, obesity. But, for goodness sake, this is a vacation....not "The Biggest Loser".

All I can say is shame, shame, shame on Disney.

 

[Sammie]

I agree with you. I never understood why Disney never separated adult and child credits or had menus in place that allowed a child to order an appetizer that cost as much as the child's plan. But they did. If there were people who exploited a "loophole" and it was a problem for DIsney, DIsney should close it in the manner you suggested.

I would not mind if the DDP excluded several restaurants if I knew prior to purchase. I would not mind if Disney only offereds a limited menu for the DDP as long as the terms were clear prior to purchase.

I think that Disney can offer prepaid plans in the manner they choose, but that the terms should be very clear so that people can make a informed decision based on information that Disney provides. If the plan that Disney offered appealed to enough people Disney wins. My guess is that there is plenty of information that suggests the signature restaurants need the DDP in order to fill the house.

I guess that the DDP is a double edged sword. Blame it for reducing the quality of the menus but filling the house or encourage its use in order to encourage enough guests in each restaurant to generate a profit. Maybe Disney is still trying to find the balance.

This is possibly the most intelligent response to this situation I have read. One that actually sees both sides instead of emotionally blaming Disney for everything that someone does not like.

Many like the DDP, Disney does not have to please everyone, and if the DDP plan causes some to dine elsewhere or heaven forbid vacation elsewhere then I am sure they will survive the loss.

I always wonder in these threads about what is wrong with Disney, how many have actually voiced their concerns to Disney instead of venting here.

It just never makes sense to me that if what Disney does upsets one so much why would one even give them the time of day much less vacation there. Yet you will read about people who come here and blast them, time and time again, yet they keep going back. Makes no sense to me.

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

NOTHING LIKE MAKING UP FACTS TO try and prove a point. There is no evidence the menu reduction and standardization is a result of the dining plan. The fact that Disney is doing the same thing to the bar menu is evidence to the contrary.

Then how come in the past before the DDP portions sizes were a lot bigger & your food did not come to your table 5 - 10 minutes after you have ordered? Now with the DDP entrees are comming out of the kitchen so fast, food portions have been going down & sometimes during lunch time seatings my family & I have been feeling rushed to eat so they can turn the table over. Also if you look at some places like Chef Mickey's & Boma, the cost is now $29.99 for adults, when it use to be like $25.99 - $27.99 & I think it's because of the DDP. With so many guests using the DDP at those buffet restaurants, I guess they figure they needed to raise the prices so they can make the money back from guests not on the DDP. That sounds really fair, where as the people on the DDP are technically not paying for their meal because they are on the DDP. So WDW needed to come up with a way to make back the lost revenue, so they needed to raise their prices. That way the guests paying menu prices get screwed in the end & the DDP guests come out thinking what a steal in terms of the price.

 

[Lewisc]

We can agree to disagree if changes due to the restaurants being crowded should be directly attributed to the dining plan. The dining plan was the means Disney used to fill the restaurants but the result would have been the same if Disney discounted the meals or used other means to fill the restaurants.

The dining plan currently "credits" $26 for a table service menu. Based on an 18% tip dining plan guests are getting a 25% discount at the restaurants you mention. That's not much more than a DDE discount. That's a very modest discount in exchange for a guest pre-paying for their meals and agreeing to eat (or at least pay for) all their meals at Disney owned restaurants.

Disney prices their meals based on what consumers are willing to pay. The food quality at CM isn't much better than a Golden Corral. Disney makes money with dining guests and with cash guests.

Portion sizes, other than a few items that were originally sized to be shared, haven't been reduced as much as posters would want you to believe.

Tony's dropped the lunch menu during free dining. This allowed dining guests to get dinner items at lunch time. I'll agree this had an impact on cash guests.

Of course DDP customers are paying for their meals. We actualy pre-pay for all our meals.

Then how come in the past before the DDP portions sizes were a lot bigger & your food did not come to your table 5 - 10 minutes after you have ordered? Now with the DDP entrees are comming out of the kitchen so fast, food portions have been going down & sometimes during lunch time seatings my family & I have been feeling rushed to eat so they can turn the table over. Also if you look at some places like Chef Mickey's & Boma, the cost is now $29.99 for adults, when it use to be like $25.99 - $27.99 & I think it's because of the DDP. With so many guests using the DDP at those buffet restaurants, I guess they figure they needed to raise the prices so they can make the money back from guests not on the DDP. That sounds really fair, where as the people on the DDP are technically not paying for their meal because they are on the DDP. So WDW needed to come up with a way to make back the lost revenue, so they needed to raise their prices. That way the guests paying menu prices get screwed in the end & the DDP guests come out thinking what a steal in terms of the price.

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

Of course DDP customers are paying for their meals. We actualy pre-pay for all our meals.

Then how come I read posts where WDW restaurants actually lose money when they have guests using the DDP? Also how come sometimes I have read posts where the servers complain that they have a table of guests on the DDP, so this means they would not be getting a tip since it's included with the meal if your on the DDP.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

I think this discussion bothers me because there are so many assumptions made.

For instance, did anyone ever think :

Maybe they reduced portion sizes because 1) the USA is a nation of obesity and restaurants across the country are doing the same, or maybe that 2) so many people who paid OOP "shared" dishes, thereby reducing the profits?

Or what about the DDE (for full disclosure, I'm a DDE member)? I wonder how the 20% discount being extended to both locals and to all AP holders who sign up and pay the nominal fee affected the bottom line at restaurants?

Or what about the fact that food prices have gone up across the nation in the last year or so incredibly, due to weather and transportation concerns?

I just find it hard to believe so many people think it's a foregone conclusion it's all because of the dining plan. If you want to know the truth, in my opinion, I think it's a combination of things.

Disney has been working very hard to keep, attract, and to get as much money as they can, from the "average" tourist. I'd like to remind anyone who is reading this : you are not an average tourist, just for the simple fact you visit the DIS.

Disney did their research, and the "average" tourist family was eating almost exclusively counter service. The people eating at the sit-downs were locals, APers, and crazy people like us who go to WDW over and over. The same people who tend to want to "linger" over meals, either because they are so-called "foodies" or because they spend so much time in the parks they aren't in a rush to "see everything".

Disney is now trying to cater to the "average" theme park guest - who wants in, good food, and to get out. Part of this was the DDP.

The DDP isn't the cause of the changes, it's simply one of the tools Disney has used to make changes they felt needed to be made. Simply put, they don't want people spending 3+ hours eating a meal in a theme park. It's not cost effective for them, because if they raise their prices to compensate then the "average" theme park guest is going to be even less likely to go there and it remains the domain of locals, APers, and frequent visitors.

Now, I'm sure I'm going to get jumped on eighteen ways from Sunday for saying that, but it doesn't mean I agree with it. It's just clear the issue is much more than "DDP ruined everything", but what audience WDW is catering to.

I believe it was this thread where someone showed a letter they wrote Disney, begining with "as a frequent visitor". Right there, ya probably lost them. You see, they see a frequent visitor as money in the bank. They've already got you addicted to the Disney crack - they know you will likely keep coming back. And the few eggs they break with the people that really do travel to WDW mainly for the food is collateral damage to them.

Those people are entitled to make any stink they want with Disney - I encourage it - but it's only if Disney actually sees numbers move and enough people actually cancel vacations, etc., and say it's over dining options that you will see this trend reversed. They listen more to those who haven't been addicted to Disney-crack yet than those that are already addicts like us.

NED

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

TAlso how come sometimes I have read posts where the servers complain that they have a table of guests on the DDP, so this means they would not be getting a tip since it's included with the meal if your on the DDP.

Whomevers posts you are talking about are mistaken.

The servers are given an 18% tip on the food provided on the dining plan.

NED

 

[Lewisc]

Then how come I read posts where WDW restaurants actually lose money when they have guests using the DDP? Also how come sometimes I have read posts where the servers complain that they have a table of guests on the DDP, so this means they would not be getting a tip since it's included with the meal if your on the DDP.

Nothing like making up stuff The servers get an 18% gratuity for DDP guests. I haven't seen a single post saying anything to the contrary.

Why don't you provide links to the posts in which servers claimed they weren't getting tips.

 

[DisMN]

I, too, must rant at the turn of events at Disney. Disney was well on it's way to becoming a dining destination as well as a theme park. Something for everyone. But scaling back on all the menus is disgraceful. The new CG menu is awful...who eats a cheese plate for dinner? I was so looking forward to trying CG for the first time, but I have definitely changed my mind. I'm certain that more and more restaurants will be following suit, scaling down their menus to accomodate the DDP. The dining plan is ruining everything good about dining at Disney...it is becoming mediocre at best. Dining at Disney used to be (at least for us) a major, major part of our vacation. We are six foodies who enjoy our meals as much as we enjoy the rides and the parks.

I, for one, vote to get rid of the dining plan altogether and let the restaurants go back to serving meals that they do best. All restaurants cannot accomodate everyone. The good thing about Disney is that there is something for everyone's taste and budget. While I could not afford California Grill on previous trips, perhaps I can on this one. But that doesn't mean that I was food deprived on previous trips. There were lots of places, varied in offerings, that we could enjoy on a small budget. This time, I would like to be able to sample California Grill and all of its offerings. But the offerings that I was looking forward to are no longer there. Just an example of things to come.

I think in Disney's efforts to please all of the people all of the time, they have taken away the uniqueness of the Disney experience. Although my children have grown, having seen the new "children's menu", I would be hard pressed to spend $$$$ on a Disney vacation if my kids were treated like numbers. Please, Disney, don't lecture me on nutrition for kids or adults. I am well aware of trans fats, calories, obesity. But, for goodness sake, this is a vacation....not "The Biggest Loser".

All I can say is shame, shame, shame on Disney.

And the thing about this is that when the uniqueness of Disney was still visible in regards to things like fine dining experiences I didn't hesitate to recommend a Disney trip to anyone I knew. Not so anymore.
In losing the foodies Disney is losing other visitors by word-of-mouth. I think in the long run watering down the menus and making them uninteresting will bite the restaurants in the butt. It will take some effort to win us back......until then Disney just isn't a place I boast about or think of first anymore when I hear someone needing ideas for a vacation.

 

[Micca]

Getting a "deal" at WDW has become tiresome. We don't do any plan, we pay the full "rack" rate at restaurants, and if the portions are too small (doubtful), we order more food. This relieves a lot of stress. I understand there are those with budget limitations and I wish you all the best.

 

[disneygal33]

Getting a "deal" at WDW has become tiresome. We don't do any plan, we pay the full "rack" rate at restaurants, and if the portions are too small (doubtful), we order more food. This relieves a lot of stress. I understand there are those with budget limitations and I wish you all the best.

I am beginning to agree. We got the Platinum package thinking it would make our lives easier. With all the dinning changes and trying to make sure my kids aren't eating cold chicken and yogurt for 10 days, and trying to get straight consistent answers from Disney, it has become more of a headache than anything else. Maybe I'll feel differently when we get there.

 

[StevePSU1]

I think this discussion bothers me because there are so many assumptions made.

For instance, did anyone ever think :

Maybe they reduced portion sizes because 1) the USA is a nation of obesity and restaurants across the country are doing the same, or maybe that 2) so many people who paid OOP "shared" dishes, thereby reducing the profits?

Or what about the DDE (for full disclosure, I'm a DDE member)? I wonder how the 20% discount being extended to both locals and to all AP holders who sign up and pay the nominal fee affected the bottom line at restaurants?

Or what about the fact that food prices have gone up across the nation in the last year or so incredibly, due to weather and transportation concerns?

I just find it hard to believe so many people think it's a foregone conclusion it's all because of the dining plan. If you want to know the truth, in my opinion, I think it's a combination of things.

Disney has been working very hard to keep, attract, and to get as much money as they can, from the "average" tourist. I'd like to remind anyone who is reading this : you are not an average tourist, just for the simple fact you visit the DIS.

Disney did their research, and the "average" tourist family was eating almost exclusively counter service. The people eating at the sit-downs were locals, APers, and crazy people like us who go to WDW over and over. The same people who tend to want to "linger" over meals, either because they are so-called "foodies" or because they spend so much time in the parks they aren't in a rush to "see everything".

Disney is now trying to cater to the "average" theme park guest - who wants in, good food, and to get out. Part of this was the DDP.

The DDP isn't the cause of the changes, it's simply one of the tools Disney has used to make changes they felt needed to be made. Simply put, they don't want people spending 3+ hours eating a meal in a theme park. It's not cost effective for them, because if they raise their prices to compensate then the "average" theme park guest is going to be even less likely to go there and it remains the domain of locals, APers, and frequent visitors.

Now, I'm sure I'm going to get jumped on eighteen ways from Sunday for saying that, but it doesn't mean I agree with it. It's just clear the issue is much more than "DDP ruined everything", but what audience WDW is catering to.

I believe it was this thread where someone showed a letter they wrote Disney, begining with "as a frequent visitor". Right there, ya probably lost them. You see, they see a frequent visitor as money in the bank. They've already got you addicted to the Disney crack - they know you will likely keep coming back. And the few eggs they break with the people that really do travel to WDW mainly for the food is collateral damage to them.

Those people are entitled to make any stink they want with Disney - I encourage it - but it's only if Disney actually sees numbers move and enough people actually cancel vacations, etc., and say it's over dining options that you will see this trend reversed. They listen more to those who haven't been addicted to Disney-crack yet than those that are already addicts like us.

NED

Agreed. I run restaurants and you are right on target.

I dont think Disney is looking backwards. This is the first step toward all inclusive packages. They will build critical mass. When they hit a target threshold of percentage of guests utilizing the plan, they will "pull the trigger" and include it in all of their resort stays.

Paying for meals in the parks and resorts will go the way of the "E" ticket.

 

[wide awake]

ITA w/ Ned. Great post !!!!

 

[hmp2z]

Here is the entire problem, for people like us who go to WDW for great food:

- Right now, the focus is on attracting guests to WDW resorts, NOT on the quality & profitability of WDW restaurants. There are 3 reasons for this. 1. Disney has a higher profit margin on the resorts than on either merchandise or food. 2. Disney wants to collect data on guest households and the only way to do this is to have them stay on property (at least as their current system stands). 3. Disney currently measures its marketing goals by the number of room nights filled, NOT the number of tables filled at each restaurant.

For all these reasons, the quality of the restaurant experience is not of primary to concern to Disney, at least at this point. The major thrust in their marketing is to get guests to stay on property. If they can do this by dangling free dining as the carrot, they don't care if the quality of the dining suffers. This is just how things are. Disney isn't a magical thing of pixie dust & light - it's all about the numbers, and, because of this, the dining experience suffers.

I wish it weren't so, but that's just how it is, at least for now. Now, if the diminished restaurant quality were affecting room nights, Disney would sit up & take notice, but I doubt that would ever happen. Too many people are taking the carrot.

Cheers!
Heather W

 

[SarahKate]

NewEnglandDisney
THANK YOU! You have given a very intelligent response to all of this. I'm sure there are going to be others who will keep on ranting about all their woes with the DDP, but you summed it all up nicely without being offensive or sugar coating anything. Everything you said makes total sense.

I also agree with you about the obesity epidemic - there are plenty of restaurants around that have decreased the size of their entrees, as well as decreasing the NUMBER of entrees available. What WDW is doing is nothing new. We eat out all the time (too darn much, really) and we do see this - it's not an unusual thing at all that a restaurant has a very limited number of entrees. And I'm all for making entrees smaller - we've got to do something right with our diets! Of course, my DH wouldn't agree. People think they have been jipped if they don't walk away from a meal absolutely stuffed!!!

 

[rie'smom]

NewEnglandDisney
THANK YOU! You have given a very intelligent response to all of this. I'm sure there are going to be others who will keep on ranting about all their woes with the DDP, but you summed it all up nicely without being offensive or sugar coating anything. Everything you said makes total sense.

I also agree with you about the obesity epidemic - there are plenty of restaurants around that have decreased the size of their entrees, as well as decreasing the NUMBER of entrees available. What WDW is doing is nothing new. We eat out all the time (too darn much, really) and we do see this - it's not an unusual thing at all that a restaurant has a very limited number of entrees. And I'm all for making entrees smaller - we've got to do something right with our diets! Of course, my DH wouldn't agree. People think they have been jipped if they don't walk away from a meal absolutely stuffed!!!

I sure am happy that I don't live where you live!! If a restaurant doesn't have a variety of menu choices it's bye,bye restaurant.
People are going to be obese no matter how much restaurants cut their menus. Do you really think that will cure the epidemic? It's not about how many choices there are in a restaurant or a grocery store-it's about how much food people put into their bodies. If Disney cuts choices and portions they will get something to eat at a kiosk. Obesity is an eating disorder.
The logic is way too simplistic and WDW doesn't need any more apologists.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

I sure am happy that I don't live where you live!! If a restaurant doesn't have a variety of menu choices it's bye,bye restaurant.
People are going to be obese no matter how much restaurants cut their menus. Do you really think that will cure the epidemic? It's not about how many choices there are in a restaurant or a grocery store-it's about how much food people put into their bodies. If Disney cuts choices and portions they will get something to eat at a kiosk. Obesity is an eating disorder.
The logic is way too simplistic and WDW doesn't need any more apologists.

The only thing too simplistic is blaming it all on the DDP. It's the obvious choice, but the issue is much depper than that.

It is a combination of factors, like most things in life.

I think people that split entrees, or regularly eat discounted food (DDE, etc.), and take up tables for 3+ hours are just as much to "blame" for the changes if one wants to assign that.

However, a reasonable person just sees WDW going along with the trends of the rest of the nation - pulling back portion sizes (a plate of food shouldn't have 1500 caloires and 150 gm of fat) because of people complaining about them or sharing them is happening everywhere.

But, I guess I don't need to say all this again - I said it above. You obviously just disagree. It's not about apologizing for Disney, it's about seeing who they wish to cater to. For years, the restaurants have catered to APers/locals/super foodies who make them less money than everyone else, and they are trying to widen the reach.

You are one of the eggs they are breaking in the process.

NED

 

[kaytieeldr]

I am not talking about the changes in terms of categorising the dishes, such as an entree, if you look at the actual entreees that are avaible they have down graded a lot of them them, cheaper entrees with cheaper ingedients.

I did. Aside from that the current menu contains MORE items than before...
. . . Chilled Summer Tomato Soup with Buffalo Mozzarella Foam and Micro Basil $9 was replaced with Curried Cauliflower Soup - Served with poached Maine lobster and chives. - $9.00 (seasonal change, given that it's no longer summer);
. . . Shrimp and Melon with Arugula, hearts of palm, serrano ham, melon gelee, and pink peppercorn vinaigrette $14 was 'replaced' with "Peeky Toe" Crab Salad - Served with fresh hearts of palm, radish, and green apple-lemongrass nage. - $14.00 (I wasn't aware that Peeky Toe Crab is a cheaper ingredient than shrimp);
. . . Wild King Salmon with Corn Spoonbread Souffle, sweet corn nectar, and avocado salsa $38 was 'replaced' by Atlantic Salmon - Served with celeriac puree, chanterelles, fava beans, watermelon radish, and sherry vinegar jus. - $28.00 since it's apparently not wild salmon season right now (as evidenced by Artist Point's similar change in menu items, if not the nearly 25% reduction in price)
. . . Spit-roasted Chicken with summer vegetable couscous salad, and spanish chorizo vinaigrette $23 'replaced' by Roasted Free Range Chicken Breast - Served with Semolina gratin, wilted rainbow Swiss chard, and Concord grapes. - $24.00 (another apparent seasonal change)
. . . Handmade Tortelloni with buffalo mozzarella, ramps, chanterelles, sweet peas, and truffle oil* $22 is now Potato Gnocchi - Served with fresh truffles, wild forest mushrooms, butternut squash, and parmigiano reggiano. - $25.00 (to the best of my knowledge, truffles are MORE expensive than chanterelles, but what do I know)
. . . Two dessert items - Blueberry Blast - blueberry tart with almond crumble, blueberry swirl buttermilk ice cream and lime curd $10 and Summer Red Bliss - rubarb upside down cake with rhubarb-ginger soup and lavender infused ice cream $10 - seem to have, yes, been replaced by the single Autumn Apple Tart - Freshly baked Gravenstein apple tart with spiced cider ice cream and Quince molasses. - $10.00; while a third item was dropped because, in my opinion only, it was SO close to another still-available choice.
. . . And, yes, the prime rib has been removed.
On the other hand, the NEW menu has two ADDITIONAL sushi choices.

And, frankly, despite the item-by-item comparison I did, I do NOT see where ANY entree or entree ingredient has been 'downgraded' or is being made with cheaper ingredients THAT THE PRICE DID NOT GO DOWN.

Could you please show me what I'm apparently missing?

I don't know what the Las Vegas thing has to do with WDW and frankly I have no desire to as that is one destination I have no intention of visiting.

I don't know, either, but somebody upthread said they will (or may) start going to Las Vegas instead of Disney because of the focus on food.

As for those who don't research their trips and the menus or restaurants,oh well. I don't think our trip should be less enjoyable because they don't pick up a guide book or google online WDW sites.

You'd have to ask the person who posted:

Besides those not informing themselves on what they purchase (their fault),

I was simply presenting a REASONABLE point about why or how someone may not be ABLE to make themselves aware as we are.

Well, early bird specials have limited menus and to me, the DDP gives me that feeling when I see how the menus have changed. I know you're getting a discounted meal.

No, DDP users are no more getting a "discounted" meal than are diners anywhere who use, say, the Entertainment Book coupons, or restaurant.com certificates, or even ANY coupon or GC. None of THOSE people should be forced to choose from a limited menu; why DDP users?

And I for one see nothing wrong with that. Give them the option to pay cash to get a better seating tier if they want. That's fair, right?

I agree, you should get what you pay for. If you want to pay less you should get less. If you want to pay more then you should be able to get more expensive options.

Seating is different from food.

now we need to either find a different time of year to go ( NOT during FREE dinning) or just wait until the service and quality return.

Since the only issue that can be directly attributed to FREE dining is difficulty getting reservations (at least some of which, based on subsequent reports, is due to Guests making multiple reservations), avoiding that period is not going to affect the service (?) or quality.

The new CG menu is awful...who eats a cheese plate for dinner?

Some people must, BUT NOBODY HAS TO!!!!!!! For the record, prior to October 2006, the cheese plate was part of the DESSERT menu. Now? That it's on the entree menu in NO way affects at what point during the meal any Guest paying out of pocket, orders/eats it.

I was so looking forward to trying CG for the first time, but I have definitely changed my mind.

Why? If you're not on the Dining Plan, were you planning to have prime rib (in which case yes, you'll have to eat somewhere else)? Or the summer chicken item that's been replaced with a more seasonal preparation? Or the wild salmon THAT'S NOT AVAILABLE at this time of year anyway? Because otherwise, the menu really hasn't changed - just where some items are listed ON the menu.

This is possibly the most intelligent response to this situation I have read. One that actually sees both sides instead of emotionally blaming Disney for everything that someone does not like.

Don't you remember the uproar, just a few short weeks ago, when Disney published an incomplete list of the 2007 restaurants? The one with very few World Showcase properties, no Maya Grill, etc.?

I always wonder in these threads about what is wrong with Disney, how many have actually voiced their concerns to Disney instead of venting here.

It just never makes sense to me that if what Disney does upsets one so much why would one even give them the time of day much less vacation there.

VERY well put, Sammie!

Then how come in the past before the DDP portions sizes were a lot bigger & your food did not come to your table 5 - 10 minutes after you have ordered? Now with the DDP entrees are comming out of the kitchen so fast,

Don't know where you ate, but with one exception, EVERY server waited until I was somewhat into my appetizer before even putting in my entree order (exception being Coral Reef, and in fairness my reservation WAS ten minutes before closing )

Also if you look at some places like Chef Mickey's & Boma, the cost is now $29.99 for adults, when it use to be like $25.99 - $27.99 & I think it's because of the DDP.

Whereas people with more experience in both life and business would attribute the increase to the COST of both food and operations increasing, JUST AS IN THE REAL WORLD.

Then how come I read posts where WDW restaurants actually lose money when they have guests using the DDP?

From whom? The COST of the food is a mere percentage of the PRICE of the menu items.